Saturday, October 13, 2018


silver angel coin
According to Spanish news agency EFE, the pope said the “mistakes” by the shepherds often occur when they forget to be “shepherds and become owners.”
“This clericalism that causes so much damage… I apologize for that too.”
Francis also urged the young people from Spain not to be “mediocre, to create havoc inside and outside the parishes,” before saying that the Church needs young people, urging them to go out to the world and be “protagonists.”
If young people “don’t remain in the Church, the Church not only will be without a future, but also without a present,” Francis said.
He also spoke to them about happiness, urging the young people to be joyful because “sadness is the place of the devil, what he needs to corrupt.”

MY Comments:

Perhaps this is what the Holy Father meant??????: 

 I guess I could see them doing 1970's type "sit-ins" in my office or at their church, acts of protest at Mass, like turning their back to the altar or daring to kneel for Holy Communion and to receive on the tongue and demanding silence in the church before and after Mass for prayers of preparation and then prayers of thanksgiving after Mass.  Maybe they would use Gregorian Chant to chant the laity's parts of the Mass even though the Mass is in the vernacular like liberals who refuse to use masculine pronouns at Mass and shout out their gender neutral way of saying is. Maybe they would pray the Holy Rosary during Mass, o my! Or make the stations of the cross prior to or during or after Mass or demand more time for confession and have it during Mass, maybe they will see how many kids they can pack into the confessional. They might demand 24 hour a day adoration. What havoc they would make for me and the parish. Their grandparents and great grandparents would be aghast some of them turning over in their graves!


60's Survivor said...

"Create havoc inside and outside parishes"?

What in the HECK does that mean? Has the pope been watching videotape of Maxine Waters?

Mark Thomas said...

He also spoke to them about happiness, urging the young people to be joyful because “sadness is the place of the devil, what he needs to corrupt.”

Be joyful. Yes.

Scandals within the Church date to the dawn of Her establishment by Jesus Christ. That is that. Nobody can change that. Instead, focus upon the positive.

I refuse to permit negativity to enter into my heart and mind. That is true in particular of negativity directed at our Holy Father.

Decades ago, I saw what happened to Catholics who had turned their hearts and minds against our Popes. Pope Venerable Pius XII had become in their minds "Hitler's Pope." Pope Saint John XIII was a "heretic" and "communist". Pope Blessed Paul II was a "homosexual, destroyer of the Church". Pope Saint John Paul II was a "modernist"...

Said folks transformed into bitter Catholics who chased all sorts of conspiracy theories...haters of Vatican II, the Novus Ordo, "Novus Ordo Popes, Cardinals, bishops, and priests"... the Church, in their minds, had become "New Church, New Rome, Modernist Rome."

Be joyful. Be joyful and confident always as thanks to the promise of Jesus Christ, the Apostolic See has always preserved immaculate the Catholic Religion. We hold the True Faith.

As Catholics, we don't have any reason to succumb to negativity.


Mark Thomas

rcg said...

It is always difficult to respond to these extracts because one hopes that in context they are more thoughtful and less vapid. This passage seems to beg people to stay in the Church for no reason, to be joyful for no cause. He sounds like the regent of a failing club.

Anonymous said...

Jack here...

I received this today from a friend who has spent his life faithfully supporting the Church, on the subject of “create havoc”:

“Back in the 60’s and 70’s, when I was tilting at the evil windmills of liberal change in Catholic education and beliefs, I painfully remember a liberal nun (none) who, considering where history has led, won the battle.

Here are two of her positions:

1. Regarding reception of Holy Communion in the hand, a practice born of disobedience and liberal foment, she said, “If we just do it, they (the Vatican) will have to approve of it.” Sadly, she was right. Noise prevailed over right reason and sacred respect.

It gave us (1) The “cattle call,” — OK ya’ll, time to stand up, join the cafeteria line and “take the host and wine.” in stead of (2) “Those properly disposed randomly coming forward, kneeling at the Communion rail, and “receiving the consecrated host on the tongue” (still the standard of the universal Church). The host contains the body, blood, soul and divinity of Jesus, as does each tiny particle which now falls onto the paten instead of the floor, etc,

2. Regarding catechesis, she said, ’It’s the questions that are important, not the answers.” How prescient of that liberal nun. She would fit in very well with the vocal agenda of certain top level Clergy and others appointed to the Synod...

My friends, it is time to face the facts: The Church has been in “havoc” and will continue to be in an ever-worsening state of havoc. What God will do with it, I don’t know of course. What I will do with it is form an underground Church within my own soul. I cannot count on hierarchy or even a parish priest to do the courageous next right thing to restore order and sanity.
Clericalism does exist; it no longer exists in the laity whom I know, but it does exist in the hierarchy, beginning at the top and moving down into his progressive minions.

May God have mercy on us all.

Mark Thomas said...

60's Survivor said..."Create havoc inside and outside parishes"? What in the HECK does that mean?"

Pope Francis has made it clear as what he's meant by creating havoc.

He want us, young Catholics, in particular, to create the same "havoc" that Jesus Christ committed. That is, shake the world to its core via a peaceful revolution of unwavering love and holiness.

Several years ago in Rio, Pope Francis exhorted Catholic youth "hagan lio!"

Pope Francis said:

"But I want you to make yourselves heard in your dioceses, I want the noise to go out, I want the Church to go out onto the streets, I want us to resist everything worldly, everything static, everything comfortable, everything to do with clericalism, everything that might make us closed in on ourselves.

"Faith in Jesus Christ is not a joke, it is something very serious. But it is the one sure path, the path of the Cross, the path of Jesus, the path of the Incarnation of Jesus. Please do not water down your faith in Jesus Christ.

The parishes, the schools, the institutions are made for going out … if they don’t, they become an NGO, and the Church cannot be an NGO.

"What must we do, Father? Look, read the Beatitudes: that will do you good. If you want to know what you actually have to do, read Matthew Chapter 25, which is the standard by which we will be judged. With these two things you have the action plan: the Beatitudes and Matthew 25.

"But do not forget: make yourselves heard; take care of the two ends of life, the two ends of the history of peoples: the elderly and the young; and do not water down the faith."

Pope Francis has exhorted bishops to obtain the smell of sheep. That is, bishops must be among their people.

It is very simple as to the Holy Father's meaning in question. He is clear. We begin by electrifying our parishes...create "havoc"...wage a peaceful, Jesus Christ-centered revolution of love, peace, forgiveness...proclaim Jesus Christ.


Mark Thomas

Fr. Allan J. McDonald said...

MT, all that you write is sentimentality and wishful thinking on the part of Pope Francis. In five years, what I have seen in my parish and travels are Catholics who like Pope Francis because he personally likes the poor, there is not doubt about that but apart from his social work, confusion is reigning in the Catholic Church. I seen no evidence of the youth doing anything like you describe in fact more and more youth are becoming "nones" under Pope Francis, unlike the enthusiasm they have for Pope St. John Paul II and Benedict.

We're in the midst of a schism generated by Pope Francis or exacerbated by him which John Paul II and Benedict were able to stave off.

We are smaller now and not more faithful.

Ambiguous speeches aside, point out where you have actually seen youth doing what you say Pope Francis is encouraging, especially after his first world youth day in Brazil.

Dan said...

I suppose Francis is trying to be inspiring to young people. From my perspective it is not working. A pope that WAS an inspiration to young people was JPII. As pope, JPII tended to be very clear in his writing and teaching. I wonder if that might have had something to do with it?

TJM said...

Father McDonald,

I know this is merely anecdotal since it is my personal experience with the state of Catholicism based on what I see in my own large, Irish Catholic family (although my favorite Aunt is Italian, who married into the family). We were all products of a Catholic education, grade school, high school, and for those of us who went to college.

I have observed the same trend with one of our closet friend's family whom we have known since 1960. I write this with sadness.

In 1960 we were all faithful Church going Catholics and missing Sunday Mass would have been unthinkable. Many of us served as ushers, altarboys, choir members, etc.

Fast forward to 1970 after the destruction of the Mass had been in full swing for around 5 years. About 60% of us were attending Sunday Mass, and in many cases, very grudgingly and only out of a sense of obligation.

Now we are in the year 2018. Maybe 15-20% attend Sunday Mass. None of us are ushers, altarboys,and members of the choir. No one mentions Pope Francis, at all.

Quite the Springtime. The Church, with a few exceptions, does not want to know or deal with this type of decay that I chronicle. I do believe the EF may keep the Church alive but the OF simply does not spiritually nourish. As Pope Benedict once said it was a banal, on the spot, fabricated liturgy.

I am grateful that there are priests like you who are of my generation who recognize the sad state of affairs and are trying to do something about it. It appears most of the clergy is part of the "apres moi deluge" crowd.

TJM said...

Father McDonald,

I am not sure you saw this, but here goes:

WSJ, October 12, 2018:
I am a seminarian for the Archdiocese of St. Louis. Most men rise at 5:30 a.m. and go to the chapel for an hour of silent prayer before we celebrate the Liturgy of the Hours and mass together. Many of these prayers are offered for all those who suffer, especially the victims of abuse. Although the clouds of scandal seem to loom over the entire church, I see clearly the light of grace shining through in the formation I am receiving.

Why would someone enter the Catholic clergy now? It guarantees that one will be dealing with fallout from the sins of an older generation. The answer is simple. We take Christ’s words seriously that the Eucharist is his body and blood. We love Jesus Christ, and we love people, so we want to bring Christ into their lives. He alone can heal the wounds inflicted by former clergy, and he needs men to carry out his mission and to bring his healing presence in the Eucharist into people’s lives.

Mark Thomas said...

Father McDonald said..."MT, all that you write is sentimentality and wishful thinking on the part of Pope Francis."

Father, that is your opinion. Okay.

I responded simply to the person who asked as to Pope Francis' meaning about creating "havoc." Pope Francis has made it clear as to the meaning in question.

Again, I answered 60's Survivor's question: "Create havoc inside and outside parishes"? What in the HECK does that mean?

Thank you.


Mark Thomas

John Nolan said...

Creating havoc is the one thing PF is expert in. No-one can accuse him of not leading by example.

I'm sure that MT will wholeheartedly endorse this comment.

Trollbegone said...

Charles Manson: "You say I'm a cult leader and mass murderer. Well, that's your opinion, OK?"

Ted Kaczinski: "You call me the Unabomber. Well, that's your opinion, OK?"

Mehmet Al Agca: "You call me unstable. Well, that's your opinion, OK?"

Bill Cosby: "You say I don't respect women. That's your opinion, OK?"

Hillary Clinton: "You call me scheming and ugly. That's your opinion, OK?"

Donald Trump: "You call me obnoxious and vulgar. That's your opinion, OK?"

Bill Clinton: "You call me a womanizer. That's your opinion, OK?"

Oh, those darned opinions! How the trolls just lap them up!

60's Survivor said...

Mark Thomas,

Do you, by chance, work for Hallmark Cards?

Dan said...

Frankly I only come here for the Mark Thomas.

Anonymous said...

Jack here...

TJM @ 11:35, THANK YOU for this! Much needed... TBTG for this seminarian all like him. He speaks total truth here, and our hope for the future of the Church lies with those young seminarians,

TJM said...


Yes. MT is comedy gold

Anonymous said...

Uh, no.....
Communion in the hand is the result of liberal forment? Why, it was practiced in the early Church. See the book The Orthodox Church, 455 Questions and Answers. And golly, communion today in the Orthodox Church is received standing. Is that "liberal" too?

And I don't think going back to the "ideals" of 1960 will end our woes today. As if all the moral decay since 1960 would not have happened, if we had only not tampered with the liturgy (which obviously had to have been altered sometime in Church history---no mention of a Latin Mass in the Bible). Why not Greek? After all, that was the language of the New Testament

TJM said...

Anonymous Kavanaugh,

Is that the best you can do? You're really off your game today. The last paragraph is pure speculation. Studies, data, proofs, etc?