Never retiring incense…
So much of this sick stuff always seems to eminate from Germany or Austria what happened to the Germans?From strong men to weak effeminate men.
I wonder if those people have any idea how silly they look. I am saddened they felt the need to sing the Trisagion along with their spinning thing (in the first video).But, hey, you're in full communion with them, and they're in full communion with the pope, so it's all good.
And the S.S.P.X. is still treated like pariahs. What was that???? By the way the S.S.P.X. pilgrimage to Lourdes last week was a huge success, a round of thanks to the local ordinary for his permission given to Bishop Fellay.
Morons…these folks are simply morons…and, Priests or not, they are enemies of the Church and the Faith.
The entire lot of them should be subjected to cannon law...
I don't want to click it father!
With all that twirling around, it's no wonder why they are so liturgically confused.
Were these both from the Church of Simony (er, Germany)?First, we have the whirling dervish liturgy, complete with rectangular confetti to match the meaningless red rectangles on that square chasuble(?) (I always thought chasubles were rounded and dalmatics were square).Next, we have (probably) one of the few rare examples where "progressives" would have no problem with the priest having "his back to the people." This cannot be done to actually pray the Mass but it is fine if it's part of the "choreography" (that's stage management, according to Fr. Cipolla) of a meaningless liturgical wing-spreading bat dance (maybe that's a Halloween special!).No, we don't need that Latin Mass for the New Evangelization--we need this stuff! (Really!?!) We have some great, orthodox churchmen from Germany (Benedict XVI, Card. Brandmuller, Card. Mueller, etc.) but then we have an uber rich church (from the state-collected church tax) with Kasper, Hans Kung, et al and this kind of stuff. Like Card. Burke, I can't quite stomach it all . .
As Fr. Z so often says, "Save the Liturgy, Save the World." And how? By saying the black and doing the red! It's not rocket science, and yet, seeing the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass offered as it ought to be is a privilege given only to a small minority in today's Church. Oremus pro Ecclesia.
So, what do priests talk about when they get together? " Hey, y'all! I got a new spin on the Mass!" The music was pretty. I agree with Gene. Even his spelling.
This is a case in which Gene's profound bluntness seems the best response.
What's sad about all this is what I think Bill Bennett called "the death of outrage" in that watching this video and others like it no longer produces outrage at such sacrilege when it comes to our Holy Mass. Somehow I don't think this is what the Council Father's had in mind with the reform of the Mass. I doubt they wanted to rid the world of Catholicism from reverence, a sense of awe and the sober reverence of the Latin Rite Church. But alas that is exactly what happened!
My comment on the first video: Are we now incorporating into the Mass liturgy (at least in Germany) influences from the Sufi's and their dervishes? For what purpose?
I wonder if, simply, an approved vernacular translation of the Tridentine Mass would've been closer to what the Council Fathers had in mind.Full, active and conscious participation (a phrase, I believe coined by Pope St. Pius X in the early 20th century) is also possible in the Tridentine Mass. With a decent vernacular translation, the limits (then in place--as of 1963 or so) on the use of the vernacular in the Mass could be expanded--as envisioned in Sacrosanctum Concilium. Yet, we would still have the tightly regulated standardized rubrics in place which would not allow for a whirling dervish Mass. Incidentally, I thought Catholics were Christians--not Sufi mendicant Muslims (which is what dervishes are). What's next--strapping little rolls of old Testament scripture to our heads in little leather boxes and bobbing our heads against a wall while we pray as do some orthodox Jews? We need to keep (or restore and continue to use) our Roman liturgical traditions.There is no doubt that, if the OF Mass is to continue as the standard (default) liturgy, it must be standardized more (as to rubrics) and in a direction in continuity with the Tridentine (EF) Mass. The Roman Canon should also, once again, become the Canon of the Mass. The options and the loose rubrics are the main source of the problems in the OF.
We had a "multicultural" mass a couple of weeks ago. Liturgical dance readings in multiple languages and bright colors. Celebrating our diversity. Packed pews. The week after, pews half full.Diversity. With all this discussion of being "welcoming" and "inclusive" concerning homosexuals or, more precisely, the LGBTQ (other letters are being discussed) does anyone in charge think about the, uh, baggage that comes along with it:1. Will homosexual acts still need to be confessed?2. Will the Church have a "gay pride" day?3. Will the liturgical colors include a rainbow?4. The sign of peace. Explain that to the children present -- or will they already know?5. Gay ministries?6. Gay choir?7. Gay patron saint?8. What will represent the homosexual "cultures" during multicultural day (think of: LGBTQ)?Since "gender identity" is part of the whole discussion, what about females who have a calling and "identify" as a male?Now, do we expend all sorts of time and effort to "address" these issues? Do we produce reams of theological gymnastics again and again only to have someone "discover" a loophole?Is what I describe what some of the Church may believe as: "welcoming", "inclusive", "non-judgmental", "tolerant", "loving", etc.?I hope not.
Generally speaking, it seems our good Fr. here on Southern Orders, has been inspired by another good Latin Mass priest on the internet ... :)Joseph Johnson: What you are speaking of actually does exist. Before the "lame-duck" version of the Novus Ordo came out and existed from 1970-2011, there was an "intermediate" version that existed from 1965-1969, and was a much more closer version/translation from the Latin Mass to vernacular, even sharing similarities to our current 2011 translation. See here: http://lxoa.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/1968-transitional-daily-missal.pdfThis intermediate liturgy has shortened prayers at the foot of the altar, the confiteor and most other parts still still intact, though already the response for "The Lord Be with you" is wrongly translated, whereas today's response in the Novus Ordo is correctly translated from the Latin as "and with your spirit." This would have been a better fit, if this were allowed to be in vernacular.
Julian, I know about the vernacularized Tridentine Mass of which you write. It is the Mass that was in use when I received my First Holy Communion in the late 1960's. Unfortunately, though, we were no longer using our Communion rail (it was still in place, then) and they had placed a table altar in front of the back altar so celebration was versus populum.In my proposal for the vernacular Tridentine Mass, there would be NO difference in the way it is celebrated (it would be ad orientem and Communion would be taken at the rail). An expanded lectionary would be, perhaps, the only change that could be contemplated.
It looks satanic! Quick, call an exorcist!
Death of outrage? Hardly. I get outraged when the priest at my local parish takes liberty with the greetings and prayers, or delivers a very close to heretical homily during the Mass. If I ever even accidentally attended a Mass like the one in the video, I would be out the door before it was over and never come back. So, there's outrage, only the people who are outraged already left. If they couldn't find a Roman Catholic Mass said correctly, I bet they are attending Eastern Rite Masses (which is an option I considered if I had not been able to find an orthodox Roman Rite parish). (By the way, I almost expect the priest and "ministers" to break into a tap dance on using the steps in a vaudevillian type dance routine. All they need is top hat and canes!)
Bee, "All they need is top hat and canes!" (and stage managers!). Unlike most people in my generation, I happen to be a big fan of early 20th century vaudeville/tin pan alley music as well as ragtime and early jazz and swing music (but NEVER in the liturgy!). Whenever I have had to endure a liturgy abuser-showman priest I have often though of the imagery of my favorite style of hard-a__ traditionalist bishop (fully vested in Roman chasuble, jeweled mitre and episcopal gloves) giving such a priest the old vaudeville "hook" and snatching him off the sanctuary with his gilded crozier! Now, THAT would be entertainment!
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