I have believed since 2007 and Summorum Pontificum that the number of priests and laity celebrating the antecedent Mass will have a gravitational pull on the post-antecedent Mass and make its celebration more like the ethos of the antecedent Mass.
Unfortunately, antecedent Mass goers turned away from the work that the Antecedent Mass should have had on the post-antecedent Mass and all but neglected it or looked at it in disdain! What a scandal and lost cause all these years!
BUT NOT ARCHBISHOP SALVATORE CORDILIONE OF SAN FRANCISCO! HE GETS IT! And this is what he writes at the National Catholic Register, the full version you can read HERE:
In an effort to demonstrate what the revised Order of Mass really looks like when celebrated with fidelity to the principles laid down in Vatican II’s Dogmatic Constitution on the Sacred Liturgy Sacrosanctum Concilium and in continuity with the received tradition, the Mass of the Americas at Old St. Patrick’s Cathedral on Jan. 15 will be in Latin (with the readings and General Intercessions in English), give pride of place to Gregorian chant (alongside sacred polyphony), and will be offered at the altar facing east, with all of us worshiping God together. Those not physically present may watch the Mass on EWTN, which will broadcast the Mass of the Americas live.
Would be wonderful. Back to reality, there is neither legislation nor an enforcement mechanism to make something happen that does not have to. This becomes a bit circular hoping for signs and wonders, don't you think? I get it, btw. I'm with you in principal, but, how much effort do you put into hoping for something that's not going to happen. At some point, you have to acknowledge that the proverbial girl won't be going out with you on a date and move on. Make the best of what you have and arrive at a reasonable schedule of liturgies with your bishop that allow those who are inclined to celebrate/participate in options that are available, but, are not normative.
I'm curious, Fr. it's your blog, you post what you want; but, you put up many posts that are thematically similar lacking legislation or episcopal authority to make most a reality. You celebrate the TLM as well as the NO ad orientem. What more are you realistically hoping to accomplish? You already have most of what you want. A NO missal with Anglican use rubrics is just not going to happen. I'm asking from the perspective of trying to understand your ongoing blog mission - if you have one. If you don't, that's perfectly fine. I just don't know what to say anymore for the reasons that I mentioned.
BrzRus, my most humble blog is a hobby of mine and I find it quite fun to do and it is an outlet for me too. I intentionally try to create some controversy but also give those who wish to comment an opportunity to do so. I hope too, that in some small way, I can influence things in the Church in a positive way.
The number of readers fluctuates, but at one point it was almost 20,000 hits a day and it goes around the world, which is all rather shocking to me and my sensibilities. I know that a few bishops look at it too, all of which is scary. But I haven't been reprimanded yet or asked to cease and desist, but if asked to do so, I would most humbly comply.
I'm not trying to hassle you, it's just that in 8 years time, there is less to look at and at the same time, I feel not one iota inspired by most of that which cascades down from Rome. The only thing that I wholly support is the HF's comments from the other day urging people to get vax'd so maybe we'll have a shot at normal lives again. Besides that, I almost hate the "signs and wonders" anymore because....as things are...I don't think much will come from any/all aside from the inherent graces received from a mass being celebrated. I thank goodness for the Byzantine Ruthenian Church, we happily have avoided any/all of this however, it would be naive to think we're without our own problems (priest shortage, aging membership, parishes that are struggling due to location/dwindling numbers).
That aside, it's helpful to know this to not get overly wrapped up in what transpires here (I'm more referring to the more recent sniping/carping). My frustrations there have had me wondering what I'm accomplishing here and if I should even continue making it part of my days. The Church is good at eating its young! Someone who is very wise said that to me a number of years back. I think we're all a bit tired. That's all.
'Antecedent Mass' is an odd way to describe the classic Roman Rite which exists sui generis and is current; and the expression 'post-antecedent' makes no sense at all.
Father, with all the boldface type, colored type changes and exclamation points it's pretty easy to figure out that all these liturgical minutiae are more exciting to you than a new offensive scheme for a team's line coach. That's great, but, if most readers are like me, we'd just like to have a pope that doesn't want to stomp all over this. I mean hooray and kudos for you if some sensible changes actually come to the Novus Ordo and are mandated (don't hold your breath) but in the grand scheme of things, this is kind of like getting excited about a new dessert being served for prisoners when your execution is scheduled for next week.
I'm happy for you, I guess, but looking at the big picture, it's hard to get too excited about this stuff.
At the end of the day, the EF Catholics will be the remnant which restores the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church. The OF, which can be done in keeping with the Church’s centuries old tradition, in the vast numbers of cases, is not the answer. It continues to shed millions of Catholics and fails to instill belief in the Real Presence. I respect priests who try to do the OF right, but there are not enough of them. If there were, it might be salvageable as was Pope Benedict’s hope. I know I will not be on this earth when the OF bites the dust but it surely will. Although valid, there is “no there, there. “ Our corrupt hierarchy simply refuses to acknowledge reality. May God have mercy on their souls
TJM even if Pope Francis had left good enough alone in terms of the “older books” there was and is no way that the older books would outnumber the newer books in attendance, even if OF Mass attendance continues to cascade. EF adherents while vocal are less than 1% of the up to 25 to 30 % of Catholics who attend Mass in either form.
It is ludicrous to think the EF will overtake the OF and I can tell you in my parish, whiich has a very young demographic, even with a good catechesis on the EF Mass and how to spiritually participate in this form of the Mass, I would see attendance from off radically and those who want the OF Mass would go to other parishes. What you are hoping for is suicide.
The EF crowd is committed, the OF crowd is not. The demographic sinkhole is upon us. Just wait another 5-10 years. Sticking with the OF is spiritual suicide
TJM, the OF crowd is very committed and every OF Parish I have served there are very faithful Catholics who love the OF Mass. Your evaluation is myopic and a caricature of the vast majority of these parishes. Not all EF parishes have highly committed Catholics and they can be just as sinful if not more so than OF Catholics.
just provide one TLM parish with a Sunday Mass at a normal time every 50 miles and let nature take its course. It will take some time but I am pretty confident that Fr McDonald will be proved wrong on this one. though right on many other points.
Saint Michael the archangel defend us in battle....
another thing. In OF parishes the EF will always be like a side car. the EF needs its own separate parish and priest to truly develop into a parish community and flourish.
Timothy, Atlanta has exploded with new Catholics over the last 20 years and is now second only to Baptists in terms of numbers of Catholics. There are huge, huge (in number) OF parishes there and of course of a variety of cultures.
There are only two EF parishes in Atlanta proper and both in highly populated areas or easy to get to by interstate. One is an FSSP parish and the other a SSPX parish. Both are small parishes but quite stable. I doubt the FSSP parish has more than 500 families. They've been there for almost 20 years or more and unhindered. If what you say, they should be the largest parish in the Metro Atlanta are. It is one of the smallest though!
In terms of the EF Mass, I think an all vernacular one but EF in all its rubrics and silent canon (which could be mandated in Latin) would draw huge numbers of Catholics. I would not hesitate in any way to make our principle Mass on Sunday an EF vernacular Mass, even using its lectionary in English and doing so from the ambo and not the altar.
The initial change in the Mass around 1966 allowing the EF Mass to have some vernacular and encouraging the laity to respond in English was well received. Even then, conservative Catholics were thrilled with the minor change of some vernaular and loved it. It was subsequent changes they reacted against, especially the "casualization" of the Mass, loss of reverence, how Communion was distributed and heterodox teachings and wild illicit celebrations of the Mass. Popular music, like Folk Music, also polarized Catholics to no end.
Very much agree with most of that Father. There is nothing magical about the 1962 missal, I could live with what you are proposing but the NO mass is too out of control to be reined in. Too many bad bishops. It needs to be scrapped. Perhaps returning to the 65/66 missal would be the way to go and then only organic changes from there. we do definitely need the old calendar and lectionary back.
Saint Michael the archangel defend us in battle....
It would be interesting if you have time Father to get a little demographic info on the 2 EF parishes you mentioned and their trajectory over the last 3-4 years to compare with OF parishes in Atlanta. I looked at their website (FSSP). It might be interesting to see the ratio of Sunday attendance/#of families, and Sunday attendance/sq ft of building space.
Also are the priests also praying Mass at satellite parishes?
I have visited a similar looking parish in Florida. Every mass is packed and the priests are driving all over the state praying Masses Sunday afternoon and evening.
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