Tuesday, January 10, 2023


 In the photo above, it might appear to those looking at it, that it was posed for the photographer. But it wasn’t. Here’s the story behind it, which tells us something very important about how the TLM captures the imagination of young children, boys in particular.

After greeting the faithful after Mass outside of Sacred Heart Church on Bull Street in Savannah, I re-entered the Church. As I stood by the entrance door, Dr. Felix Maher, the MC for or TLM, was speaking to a young lady and her very young son. 

She said to both of us that she wanted to show us a picture of her son’s Christmas gift. That is why she is holding her cell phone to get that picture.

It was at that point that someone took the picture above. I didn’t even know someone was taking a photo of us until I received the photo via email. Following that she showed us the photo and it was of her son “celebrating Mass” with his new “Altar and Mass kit toy”. He was wearing vestments and had a beretta or is it Biretta? Just so there is no mistake about this, given the fact kids have access to guns, in this case it was definitely a hat!!!!

The Mass kit toy had a small altar/tabernacle and the traditional altar accruements. 

I’ve been celebrating TLM Masses since 2007. In those years, I have seen far more young boys wanting to “pretend” celebrating Mass and fascinated by the TLM compared to the number of young boys who had and have the same kind of fascination with the Modern Roman Missal and the manner in which it is celebrated in their parishes in my entire 43 years as a priest. 

Definitely the TLM captures the imagination of our young and engages them so much so they want to play act it at home and not only that, they want to play acting be a priest. I don’t think we can say that about the way the Modern Roman Missal is celebrated by priests today. 


Fr. Michael J. Kavanaugh said...

"accruements" being...?

Donny Phister said...

Fr. Kavanaugh, I'm not sure what Fr. MacDonald meant by that but I assume he meant accoutrements. In any event, we know what the intent is and we know that what he writes is true. Young men aren't inspired by the "Father Bob" show - certainly not enough to make a vow of celibacy. If being a priest is little more than effeminate liturgy and knowing where the plunger is, then I can't see any young men being inspired.

Anonymous said...

The TLM has captured the imaginations of young Catholics to the point that among them are those who "play" Mass. That was also the case prior to the Council.

The above story has been cited often by folks who have insisted that the TLM, just prior to Vatican II, was beloved among the Latin Church laity. The notion is that the pre-Vatican II Latin Church laity did not ask for the liturgical reform/Liturgical Movement that Pope Venerable Pius XII had accelerated in earnest.

Therefore, it is puzzling as to why an overabundance of Churchmen, such as Father Ratzinger, had insisted that the TLM was in dire need of major reform.

One Conciliar Father after another, had grown up with the TLM. Nevertheless, the Conciliar Fathers could not wait to reform the TLM.

Had the TLM failed to have captured their imaginations?


Mark Thomas

TJM said...

Abortion is healthcare, meaning?

Fr. Allan J. McDonald said...

Mark, it was and is called clericalism, only an elite in the Church felt that and they had the power to destroy the patrimony of the Latin Rite, but rank and file clergy and laity did not see it that way. That Mass was sacred to them. Thus you hit the nail on the head, clerical authoritarians changed the Mass.

TJM said...

Mark Thomas,

Were you alive then? Do you believe everything you read?

I was alive then, was trained to chant several Latin ordinaries, used my Missal, and saw ZERO need for the “reform” which has emptied churches. What would you say about a top down revolution that failed? Yep, we were wrong and are sorry for what we did? Not on your life. With evidence continuing to mount on the failure, the hierarchy has doubled down on stupid, which includes your Golden Calf. The average second grader back then head a better understanding of the Liturgy than adults now

TJM said...


One last thing:

When the TLM had about 75% attendance of American Catholics on Sunday, why would you change it?

When the Novus Ordo has about 15% attendance of American Catholics on Sunday, why would you NOT change it?

Denial of the problem and wishful thinking will not fill the pews. Remember, you cannot have active participation in the Mass if people do not show up!

Donny Phister said...


The failures of the Church prior to the reforms of V2 do not justify the implementation of V2 - which, in case you didn't know, were not implemented with hugs and kisses. Ask anyone who was in seminary from 1970-present and they will tell you what would happen (and still happens) to you if you shared your affinity with the 1962 or any criticism of the "Spirit of Vatican II." For the laity, to question the "Spirit of V2" was to question God himself. This is not how love and charity move.

But OK - there was a global experiment, well intentioned perhaps but performed at probably one of the most politically and socially tumultuous periods in world history. The "Spirit of V2" ran amok. The spring was wound pretty tight and when it was let go it flew. I can understand that. I can't understand the hubris of those who would disparage a millennia of tradition - but I can understand how it happened. Until Traditiones Custodis I thought it was a giant mistake and everyone knew it but were too prideful to admit it. TC proved that, no, they actually did want those results and ardently stand by them. Again, not implemented with love and charity but implemented with slander and contempt.

Go to virtually every Catholic Church and you will find the opposite of what we are told. We were told that the TLM was being reserved for the "hoary heads" who still want to remember the "happy days" and that rigid, antiquated form will soon die off with them. However, my eyes tell me a different story - in fact quite the opposite. In every TLM I see throngs of youth and babies, talented young people volunteering their time, largely unsupported by the Diocese. At the Novus Ordos, with the exception of certain ethnic groups who are surviving, in many ways as social clubs, I see only the gray haired. God bless them - but the "New Mass" is already old and dated.

I can understand the upheaval of the 1960's. I am thankful that we get to reacquaint ourselves with the TLM. Norms are stretched and slap back together in a synthesis. This is how this works. It is the fierce opposition to synthesis which is the matter at hand. The "loose and open minded" became the rigid. The reformers reject any reform. This is simply how power works. They have it and don't want to let it go.

Fr. Michael J. Kavanaugh said...

Donny - Were a parent to complain to a teacher that her child INTENDED to write "London" when asked what was the capital of England but wrote Stratford-upon-Avon instead, and asked the teacher to give the student credit for the answer, you'd say the wrong answer was true...?

TJM - I've never said abortion is healthcare and I don't believe that it is. I have repeatedly told you that, and I have repeatedly told you that I do not support abortion. But you have to keep the lie going, so have at it.

I "played" mass at home, altar, vestments, and all, based on the NO.

Fr. Michael J. Kavanaugh said...

Donny - I was in seminary from 1981 to 1985. A small number of our classmates expressed and "affinity with the 1962' quite openly. Guess what, they were all ordained. Some have left the priesthood, some have stayed. One is now the bishop of Lincoln, Nebraska.

As for the "hoary jeads," when you next pass through Savannah, stop in my church for the 9:00 a.m. Sunday mass. That's when the children's choir sings. (The vast majority of our 241 school children are from our parish, btw.) The "hoary heads" are far, far outnumbered by the young families, the early middle agers, the new empty-nesters, the middle agers, and everyone else. Aside from the 7:30 a.m. mass, you'll be very surprised by the low average age of those attending.

TJM said...

Fr K,

Yet you repeatedly vote for a Party for which Abortion is a “sacrament” and even demanded money during the pandemic to keep the Abortionatoriums open. There is nothing to justify your vote - there is no countervailing “proportional” reasoning. Ergo, you consent to what they stand for

Fr. Michael J. Kavanaugh said...

TJM - I do not have to justify my vote - or anything - to anyone, least of all to you.

You do not believe that proportional reasons exist at all. The Vatican instruction and the USCCB instructions disagree with you. So I will make the wise choice and use the guidance from the Holy See and the USCCB in forming my conscience for faithful citizenship and voting.

To amplify your absurdity, you continue to assert that the election in which Donald John Trump was soundly defeated by Joseph Robinette Biden for the office of the President of the United States was "rigged" or "stolen" or something else. Your detatchment from one reality, that being the Church's teaching, and other realities, Biden was legitimately elected, should surprise no one.

Donny Phister said...

With all due respect, Fr. K, the "seamless garment" looks like a handkerchief on a gorilla at this point. I could see its usefulness 20 years ago but in the present time it exposes more than it covers. Think about that. It exposes more than it covers.

TJM said...

Fr K,

Name one proportional reason to vote for the Party of Molloch - but you can’t because there isn’t one. Trump is a Saint compared to Biden

Fr. Michael J. Kavanaugh said...

Donny - What does "seamless garment" have to do with anything I posted on this thread?

TJM - You don't believe there CAN be any proportional reasons for votoing for candidates who support abortion. That's contrary to the Church teaching. So, were I to post ANY reply, you'd say "That's doesn't count," or "That's not a proportional reason," so I'm not going to waste my time. I'm happy to stand with the Church.

Sheila said...

A fellow dentist in the Diocese of Savannah as the MC of a TLM Mass! Doesn't get much better than that!

Anonymous said...

Donny Phister,

I am not certain as to what you're talking about.

It has been noted for years the TLM revival has been fueled by young Catholics.

Conversely, the majority of those who had grown up with the TLM have made it clear that they do not want any part of the TLM. That is related to the following:

Father Joseph Ratzinger had declared during the early 1960s that the overall state of Latin Church liturgy was appalling. The laity did not understand Latin. They had been reduced to "silent spectator" status during Mass.

In 1998 A.D., then-Cardinal Ratzinger repeated that theme when he insisted that the pre-Vatican II Faithful had not been in contact with the Mass...that they were silent spectators...each person isolated during Mass.

Then-Cardinal Ratzinger:

"On the other hand, it must be admitted that the celebration of the old liturgy had strayed too far into a private individualism, and that communication between priest and people was insufficient."

"Perhaps these reductionist forms of celebration are the real reason that the disappearance of the old liturgical books was of no importance in many countries and caused no sorrow."

"One was never in contact with the liturgy itself."

That is an horrific portrait of pre-Vatican II, TLM liturgy.

That explains as to why countless Catholics who had grown up with the TLM are not interested in the TLM. Said folks are not keen to return to that form of Liturgy.

Fortunately, such holy priests as Father McDonald offer the TLM in superior fashion.

That, in turn, has attracted younger Catholics who do not carry negative TLM-related baggage...that is, memories of the days that featured mumbled, 20-minute Masses, offered in a language that only a few had understood.


Mark Thomas

TJM said...

Fr K,

No evidence. I rest my case. I hope you enjoy heat.

TJM said...


"That, in turn, has attracted younger Catholics who do not carry negative TLM-related baggage...that is, memories of the days that featured mumbled, 20-minute Masses, offered in a language that only a few had understood."

This is one of the dumbest things you have ever posted and fits the Left's agenda. Were you even alive then?

First of all, the Roman Canon was said silently, so how would you know if the priest "mumbled" it? Secondly, Missals with the vernacular translations were readily available as they are now. Our standard Sunday and Grade School Mass was a Missa Cantata, everyone sang.

You're just repeating propaganda. But hey, that hurried, mumbled Mass in a language only a few understood attracted 80% of American Catholics on Sunday, whereas the "New and Improved" Mass attracts only about 13-15%. You truly live in a fantasyland like your buddy, Father K.

Fr. Michael J. Kavanaugh said...

TJM - You have no case to rest. You lie about me, you make false claims about the Church's teaching on conscientious voting, you demand that others andswer your questions while refusing to answer theirs (as you have done in this thread). And then, when your position is untenable, you "close" your case.

TJM said...

Fr K,

A priest who votes for the Party of Moloch condemns himself. You can’t even give one example of what issue could possibly be more compelling than voting for intrinsic evils like abortion. Your Party stands for infanticide, gay marriage, transgenderism, and grooming of children. You’re a real paragon of virtue.

Fr. Michael J. Kavanaugh said...

TJM - You don't believe that there are ANY proportionate reasons for voting for a candidate who supports abortion. It would be a waste of time to offer any as you would simply dismiss them.

You reject the Church's guidance on voting. That's your choice. I'm going to stand with the Church.

You can keep your lies going as long as you want. I and others here have called you out on them. But, for reasons I don't even want to understand, you'll keep them coming.

Donny Phister said...


I absolutely conceded that point. We are aware of the fact that the Pre-V2 Mass and Church as a whole was not as fantastic as some might believe. Even the most ardent 1962 supporter agrees.

What I was saying is that it is misleading (I'm not saying intentionally) to say "the majority of those who had grown up with the TLM have made it clear that they do not want any part of the TLM." You have to account for the fact that they were told by the leaders of the Church not to have any part of the TLM. They were told that the TLM was synonymous with an abusive, alcoholic father and a cloistered and repressed mother. They were told that it was backward, outdated and undesirable. They were told that the TLM was actually the "imposter Mass" the "New Mass" - that the original Mass according to documents was much closer to the "meal" idea. They were told that the Holy Spirit, one of the persons of the Holy Trinity, had commanded the Church to abandon and bury the 1962. None of that was true.

So to say "everyone thinks it so it must be true" won't work.

Donny Phister said...

Fr. K,

The seamless garment is essentially what you are arguing - unless you are making a technical distinction and I'm just not that technical. I know you like precision.

You are saying that you have to look at the candidate/party holistically and that there are proportionate reasons that justify one party over another. Say for instance, yes, the DNC is clearly the party of Moloch - BUT - they support welfare programs for the poor and assistance for illegal aliens. So by that logic, I think their virtue in providing for the poor outweighs their support for child murder. Isn't that what you are saying here? You don't often hear conservatives having to make that twisted argument - although there are definitely issues.

Bush led us into a war based on lies. Absolutely atrocious. Republicans aren't great on abortion or homosexuality either. But to compare the two? There just is no justification anymore. The DNC has declared open war on Christians and are clearly State Atheists. Any hope of being Catholic and Democrat, like all of our grandparents were, died with Obama's second term.

Fr. Michael J. Kavanaugh said...

Donny - I am not speaking of or from the Seamless Garment position - at all. Your "precision" is waaaaaay off.

When voting for a candidate we are asked to judge which we think is the best for the position. For some people - and I believe it is an error - the only criterion that matters is whether the candidate is pro-life. That's the same error made, in my opinion, when a person says that the only thing that matters is that the candidate is Republican or male or white, or that the candidate is Democratic, female, or non-white.

This single-issue process is also not taught by the Church or expected of the members of the Church.

You say, "So by that logic, I think their virtue in providing for the poor outweighs their support for child murder. Isn't that what you are saying here?" No, that is not what I am saying at all.

First of all, you have put forward a straw man argument. There are Democrats AND Republicans who provide for the poor. Second, you are reducing a complex question to simplistic dualisms: Republicans all good, Democrats all bad. Abortion must be considered, nothing else may be considered. Pro-Life credentials are all that matter while experience in finance, law, international relations, the Constitution, agricultural policies, transportation, the military, etc., etc., don't matter.

You can be a single issue voter if you choose. I think it's a very bad choice.