Sunday, January 31, 2021



 On Saturday, Pope Francis spoke about proper catechisis  and then went on to say this about the Magisterium:

“The catechesis inspired by the Council,” said Pope Francis, “is continually listening to the heart of the man, always with an attentive ear, always seeking to renew itself.”

Pope Francis insisted: “The Council is the Magisterium of the Church. Either you are with the Church and therefore you follow the Council, or you interpret it in your own away, according to your desire, you do not stand with the Church.” He asked that there be no concessions “to those who try to present a catechesis that does not agree with the Magisterium of the Church.”

Much of what he said was off the cuff and thus Vatican News did not report everything because off the cuff remarks lead to mass confusion. 

I was a bit confused about what he said about handing on the faith of Vatican II as it is the Magisterium of the Church, which indeed it is. But was he speaking about a return to "coloring book catechesis? No he wasn't. He was speaking about Vatican II not some spirit for a liberal heterodox approach or an approach that fails to acknowledge what Vatican II taught authentically, not in the a warped interpretation.

 But this is one of the examples Pope Francis used in his off the cuff remarks which can be found in Italian in its entirety. I copy this from two comments at Praytell, the most important of which is Fr. Anthony Ruff's translation of the Italian:

Alex Sheffield says:

Thank you for not quoting the part of the speech in which the pope presents the ordination of women as an example of ruinous departure from the church’s magisterium. I know many of us readers would have been scandalized by his words there.

Hi Alex,

That wasn’t included in the report at Vatican News so I didn’t know about it. Thanks for alerting me to it.

Readers can find the entire address in Italian here:

Francis speaks at some length of those bishops who led the faithful to reject Vatican II because they were supposedly the true Catholics. Then he says “today they ordain women.” Then he says the most severe attitude of guarding the faith without the magisterium leads to ruin. It is possible, as you suggest, that he is referring to both examples he just cited. It is also possible, and seems more likely to me, that “today they ordain women” is more parenthetical, and leading to ruin refers to those traditionalists supposedly “guarding” the faith, since “guarding the faith” is more redolent of the language and attitude of traditionalists.

Here is the excerpt:
“A me fa pensare tanto un gruppo di vescovi che, dopo il Vaticano I, sono andati via, un gruppo di laici, dei gruppi, per continuare la “vera dottrina” che non era quella del Vaticano I: “Noi siamo i cattolici veri”. Oggi ordinano donne. L’atteggiamento più severo, per custodire la fede senza il magistero della Chiesa, ti porta alla rovina. Per favore, nessuna concessione a coloro che cercano di presentare una catechesi che non sia concorde al magistero della Chiesa.”

 "It makes me think so much about a group of bishops who, after Vatican I, went away with groups of lay people to continue the" true doctrine "that was not that of Vatican I:" We are true Catholics ". Today they ordain women. The most severe attitude, to guard the faith without the magisterium of the Church, leads you to ruin. Please, no concessions to those who try to present a catechesis that does not agree with the magisterium of the Church. "

My comment: Yes the Old Catholics broke away after Vatican I to preserve the true Church and today they ordain women and are quite liberal. Think too of Lutheranism and what happened with the Protestant revolt said they were the true Church and broke away.  

Today, you have bishops everywhere, but especially in Germany advocating for women's ordination, gender ideology, same sex marriage, euthanasia and women's health services to include contraception and abortion. They are not part of  Vatican II's Magisterium, they are leaving the Magisterium for their own thing!





Pierre said...

Personally, my favorite Council is Trent. Trent actually succeeded in reforming the Church and bringing people back to the Faith, in stark contrast to Vatican II, which deformed the Church and lost millions

Anonymous said...

So, will he respond to the dubia the 4 cardinals sent to him? This is just more loose talk until I read Cardinal Burke has been restored to the previous job he held. It could happen,look how Cardinal Pell is now fully restored to his previous job.

Tom Marcus said...

Pierre--I love your observation. In the 16th Century we had the "reformation". Today we are suffering with the "Deformation" of the 60's.

Like anonymous, I don't trust what the pope says. It's just too little too late. As your headline reads, " A Partial Truth Is Like A Lie'. Francis has a solid track record of tossing us partial truths and leaving it there. This is the same pope whose "encylicals" aren't even addressed to the world's bishops and read like a primer for the French Revolution instead of mentioning Christ. I am not trying to foment hatred for this pope and I pray that he give us bigger, more complete doses of Truth as his pontificate wanes. I just have a very difficult time trusting him. I guess the best I can say is that we all need to continue praying for him.

Pierre said...

Tom Marcus,

Notice how there have been no "liberal" posters coming here to rush to the defense of Vatican II and its "wonders?" I also think Father Z is onto something when he refers to the demographic sinkhole the US Church finds itself in. We are going the way of Canada.