Popes have silenced theologians before. Pope John Paul certainly did. Think of Fr. Charles Curran who had his "title" of theologian stripped from him.
Bishops have been removed from their dioceses. Other punitive measures have taken place to silence bishops.
I know; I know; Archbishop Vigano has nuggets of truth, but he comes off to me as a raving lunatic, shooting from the hip and accusing all kinds of people of this, that and the other. I am sorry, but there has to be something seriously wrong with him. Or is it me; or is it I?
Abp. Viganò Invites Bishops and Priests to Fast, Recite Leo XIII’s Exorcism Prayer on Vigil of the Assumption
TO BISHOPS AND PRIESTS FROM AROUND THE WORLD
TO A DAY OF FASTING
AND THE RECITATION OF THE EXORCISM OF LEO XIII
ON THE VIGIL OF
THE ASSUMPTION OF THE BLESSED VIRGIN MARY INTO HEAVEN
In this moment of very serious spiritual and material crisis, in which the public Authorities support the plans of the New World Order and the Shepherds are silent accomplices in the face of the destruction of society and of the Church of Christ herself, it is our sacred duty to unite ourselves to the spiritual battle, aligning ourselves without hesitation under the banners of Christ our King and Mary our Queen.
The Lord has given to Bishops and Priests the power to cast out demons in His Name. Already on Holy Saturday of 2020 many of them welcomed my appeal [see here — CFN Ed.] with generosity and a supernatural spirit. Today I intend to renew this appeal. I ask, therefore, my venerable Brothers in the Episcopate and Priesthood to dedicate the Vigil of the Assumption of the Most Blessed Virgin Mary to prayer and fasting, and to reciting the Exorcismus in Satanam et angelos apostaticos of Leo XIII (Rituale Romanum, Tit. XII, Caput III), at the hour of 12 noon in Rome. This sacramental will be placed under the mantle of the most fearful Adversary of the infernal powers, so that the choral prayer of the Ministers of God will remove from the Church and the world the snares of the Enemy of mankind which today threaten society, families, individuals, and in a particular way the faithful of Christ.
The secularized world, and along with it not a few Shepherds, will be able to mock this appeal and the Exorcism itself, considering it the legacy of a past to be cancelled along with the Faith of our fathers. But we know well that, although we are unworthy sinners, a power has been given to us by Our Lord which terrorizes the Gates of Hell and its servants.
In the silence and fasting which prepares us for the Feast of the Assumption of the Queen of Heaven, let us invoke the Most Holy Virgin, terrible as an army set in battle array [Cant. 6:9], and Saint Michael the Archangel, the Patron of the Holy Church and Prince of the Heavenly Hosts.
+ Carlo Maria Viganò, Archbishop
12 August 2021
Sanctae Clarae Virginis
Vigano has alinged himself with those who fear he "deep state" and the "New World Order," saying that those who opposed the re-election of Trump were "children of darkness."
Vigano has called the coronavirus pandemic a "colossal operation of social engineering."
In June 2020 Vigano said that the coronavirus virus is "inevitably fading" and that riots "in these days" are being provoked by the deep state opposition to Trump.
Vigano blames the riots on the machinations of the Masons.
Vigano praised Trump's religiosity which, to any observer, was a sham.
It's not surprising to hear good priests putting Vigano down, as our whole culture, including religious culture has been so homogenized and watered-down that anyone who speaks as plainly as him is going to be a lightning rod for criticism.
More often than not Vigano is right and I admire him. At least he has something CATHOLIC in mind, instead of more "accompaniment" and "dialogue" with the enemies of the Church.
He reminds me of Fr. Altman, both wired the same way. Management isn't going in the direction that I'd personally like, but at the same time, I just don't sense all the "deep state" conspiracies like those mentioned by Fr. MJK.
My understanding regarding exorcisms is that those not qualified to participate and protect themselves should steer clear. He should be corrected I would think if otherwise were to happen. All of this is well above my paygrade, however.
I suppose the Pope "silencing" His Excellency would silence him just as well as if I ordered it. The unhinged will not be dissuaded. Sadly, these days every lunatic has access to a tremendous audience of conspiracy mongers and fearful fools who never stop to think and only behave out of reflex. The Francis situation insofar as it is governed by his Motus Proprio is as easily reversed by a subsequent Pontiff as it was enacted. Traditionis Custodes will not live long.
Byz - It is not a matter of "sensing" anything about the "deep state."
In his letter to Trump of 7 June 2020, Vigano specifically mentioned the "deep state" four times and the "deep church," - how ominous! - once.
The Pope cannot 'silence' anybody. Curran, like Küng a few years earlier, was deprived of his 'missio canonica' by the CDF but, like Küng, continued to teach and publish. Recently he has become something of a cheerleader for PF whose 'reforms' he supports (although he doesn't think they go far enough).
Dissident theologians welcome censure by the CDF since it enhances their celebrity and increases their audience and readership, while at the same time enabling them to portray themselves as persecuted victims.
The only way PF can 'silence' Vigano or anyone else who criticizes him would be to have them 'bumped off'. There is a precedent (Urban VI) and PF has some shady South American cronies who would be happy to arrange things for him.
Yep, being a faithful Catholic Archbishop is pure lunacy.
So what’s wrong with what he asks for?
For someone who supports the Democrats, you should be more circumspect. Joe Biden’s “Catholicism” is a pure sham. He’s the guy, you as a Catholic priest, should be concerned about. Or aren’t you?
Lunacy is to call crazy the request for prayer and fasting to defeat the devil and evil in the Church and the world. This is a pre-Vatican II document or maybe a circa 1500 A.D text and if someone is put off by its style, it’s because they are more comfortable with a post Vatican II culture. Seems to me this is exactly what we were discussing earlier. If you lament the culture/condition of the Church then more calls for prayer and fasting to defeat evil should be welcomed not viewed as the rantings of a lunatic. Contemplate how many times Christ had to perform exorcism in what was likely a relatively small population of people that Jesus encountered. Is there less possession today vs. then? This document is consistent with an archbishop who practices reverential celebration of the Mass and I would feel comfortable in his company. It might feel like an anachronistic appeal of a weirdo, but that’s because we have been conditioned to profess our faith in a diplomatic and cautious manner so we don’t offend any number of groups that will be turned off by this approach that feels too blunt.
I have watched videos of the Archbishop. The worst I could say is that his English is difficult to sift through, but he does NOT come across like a "lunatic" or "unhinged" man.
What I see in his still photos is the face of a man who is very serious, possibly even angry at times. To his credit, Vigano has witnessed corruption where there should be integrity. He has been privy to information that would make any decent person sick to their stomach. And, unlike so many fluffy post-conciliar bishops, HE UNDERSTANDS THE GRAVITY of it all and takes it very seriously. His face, his actions, his words reflect that gravity and seriousness.
I can immediately think of at least 7 or 8 prominent American bishops who have served in dioceses tainted by sex abuse, financial abuse and the other sundry problems we've grown too used to hearing about. For charity's sake, I will not name them. But most of their photos show "company men" who are all "smiles and balloons" and it sickens me, knowing what little I know about the corruption in the Church. There is nothing to smile or laugh about and we need more bishops who are as serious as Vigano.
Vigano's first priorities are saving souls and saving the Church. I wish I could say that for the other men who come to mind.
Vigano's spot on about coronavirus producing 'a colossal operation of social engineering' if what happened in the UK is anything to go by. In March 2020 the government imposed a lockdown which effectively put everyone under house arrest. They claimed to be following scientific advice, but the committee of scientists which advises the government (SAGE) included behavioural scientists who advised that people needed to fundamentally change interactive behaviour previously considered normal, and the only way to make this happen was to frighten them into compliance. At this time little was known about the virus.
So every evening there was a (virtual) press conference from Downing Street where the PM or another senior minister was flanked by the Chief Medical Officer (Chris Whitty) and the Chief Scientific Advisor (Sir Patrick Vallance), dubbed by the press Mr Doom and Mr Gloom, who deployed selective statistics and computer modelling in order to scare the wits out of us.
It was social engineering on a nationwide scale and it worked to the extent that a lot of people are reluctant to go out, and still wear face coverings (even outdoors, and even after being double-vaccinated) although restrictions were lifted nearly four weeks ago.
I dare say that some will never be parted from their masks - they will probably be buried in them.
Much as been known about coronaviruses since they were identified in the mid-1960s. They are not something about which "little was known."
What has been known for decades is that coronaviruses are respiratory viruses. What has been known for decades is that they are spread by coughs and sneezes. We know that the virus can live in the air up to three hours. We also know that it can spread on surfaces where it can live for two to three days.
"Normal" activity which included being in close proximity in schools, churches, theaters, indoor arenas, elevators, etc. is the prime circumstance in which a coronavirus is transmitted. It was essential that this "proximity" be reduced as quickly as possible since the virus is very easily transmitted.
What we know about the delta variant is that it if far more transmissible than other variants because the viral load, also known as the viral burden, an infected person carries is far greater than the others variants.
Social distancing was known to work in slowing the spread of the Spanish flu virus in the 1918 epidemic. The city of Philadelphia did not impose "social engineering" to enforce distancing early in the epidemic while the city of St. Louis did. Philadelphia suffered a mortality rate of 748 per 100,000 while St. Louis had 358 per 100,000.
If only more people had listened to Mr. Doom and Mr. Gloom.
This virus is germ warfare and manipulated. It may have been released accidentally or intentionally by the Chinese on their own people to see what happens not realize, or maybe they did, that it would spread to the rest of their country and around the world.
With today's social media and biased journalism, it has all be politicized including the wearing of masks and shut-down. And for people like you who have germ phobias and fear of early death, you and they can be easily manipulated. That is what authoritarian regimes do.
And as a priest, you should be praying for the souls of the faithful departed for their happy repose and have hope that those who die in the Lord now live with the Lord. Not referring to that is agnostic doom and gloom to say the least.
Yet priests like Kavanaugh will defy the science and revert to the common chalice as soon as possible - agenda uber alles
Fr. ALLAN McDonald - I have no germ phobia nor do I fear an early death.
I have a healthy concern for my bodily well-being as is proper for anyone, especially a preist such as yourself, as a matter of being a good steward of the gift - health - God has given us.
As a priest I also have a healthy concern for the people I minister to and the people I may come in contact with, realizing that, even though I am vaccinated, I am still able to be infected and pass that infection on to the elderly or the children I serve.
As a priest I do pray for the deceased and will pray for you when you shuffle off your mortal coil.
Wow! Our two ordained participants win the award for steering the conversation in a completely different direction!
Vigano is calling for Catholic things, Fasting and prayer, how radical!
Instead this is what we have, I have lost all faith in the "church", not Catholicism, just the "church", we are being led by crap weasels, perverts and liars
Vigano is a Threat! Hardly!
Ex-Cardinal Negotiating Vatican-China Deals Attended Hunter Biden-Led Communist Party Influence Events, Deleted Webpages Reveal.
While pushing for closer collaboration McCarrick, also posits that “connections” exists between “doctrines of Catholics and the Communist doctrine”:
Everyone who supports the good things the good Archbishop is suggesting is missing the elephant in the room. He is also spreading conspiracy theories about the deep state and the deep Church which are political talking points in some of the more radical right wing movements in the church and politics.
He has made blanket accusations about numerous people without substantiating most of them. That is called detraction and a serious mortal sin and could have canonical implications for him as an archbishop as it concerns his on-going derision of the Supreme Pontiff to who he has promised obedience.
Any person in the Church, clergy or lay can certainly uphold many good things about the Church as it concerns prayer, fasting and alms-giving but that does not give them a pass with it comes to pathological rantings and the crime of derision and bearing false witness.
Yet the “progressives” in the Church use the language of the political left, including Santita
Yes, but Santita is the Supreme Pontiff and that has certain privileges in the Catholic Church as implied by the word "SUPREME!"
In March 2020 little was known about COVID-19. Experts admit this. The WHO, under pressure from China which initially attempted to cover-up the Wuhan outbreak, was slow to classify it as a pandemic.
The argument is not about the effectiveness of social distancing but the measures taken to enforce it. In the UK this was a mixture of legal constraints (often imposed by the police in a heavy-handed way) and government guidelines reinforced by a deliberate ramping up of the 'fear factor'. This is where social engineering comes in.
When, at the peak of the first wave, Italy announced that the average age of death from COVID was 78, I tried to find the equivalent for the UK, but drew a blank. Much later it was confirmed that the average age of death 'with', not necessarily 'from' COVID was 82. The average life expectancy pre-COVID was 81.
Selective use of statistics can be misleading, and a graph can be made to look more scary by shortening the x-axis and lengthening the y-axis, something the proponents of anthropogenic climate change know full well. Throw in some emotive language like 'lethal pandemic' and 'climate catastrophe' and who will gainsay you?
A fructibus eorum cognosceti eos! ++Vigano is a good apple!
If you are fine with a leftist pope who sows confusion and possesses a
nasty temper, “who am I to judge!”
well Fr, what do you call the underhandedness, and deceit in the "church".
Lavender mafia, grindr rings operating in Vatican city, the sellout of Chinese Catholics, money laundering etc, what I just posted about McCarrick. Let alone pachamama. These things are not being done by holy devout men Father, to think otherwise is to deceive yourself. Just because the word supreme is used does not make it right! I believe it was Fulton Sheen that said that the church will not be saved by the clergy but by the lay people themselves. This to me at least is the "deep church"
I respect the "Pope" in the same manner that i respected Obama, He is president but i don't agree with him, the same with the Pope, I respect the office not the holder of it
It might be that the archbishop is to be criticized and regarded as an unreliable conspiracy theorist, but you’ve picked the wrong example to support your case against him. To me it looks like you’re barking up the wrong tree and to others too because I don’t think you can find anything wrong with what he has written in this document.
The Supreme Pontiff was talking about a gay lobby, Pope Benedict left office under suspicious circumstances and the Supreme Pontiff we have got elected through some vote harvesting techniques, so is there a left wing political machine that exists in the Vatican? It seems there are some good reasons to think so. I think the only difference between you and Vigano is that he might have a belief that the structure of the conspiracy is more formal compared to you who might believe it to be a concerted effort of like minded liberals that work together. The whole child abuse scandal was created by a deep church operation if you think about it. It was cardinals appointing the bishops who got priests appointed where they wanted them and then they all protected the rapists. What do you call that if not the “deep church”? Were there or are there some devil worshipers in the mix? I think you have to be naïve not to know they are lurking about.
All levers of power in this country are controlled by the radical left. It used to be that the FBI and CIA were operations that you could trust, but not anymore. We know those agencies were working hard to pin some evidence on Trump from day one. Try to name one organization or industry that is not now corrupted by a left wing cabal. So, it seems to me that Vigano is closer to the truth in believing that evil forces unite to shut down the opposition.
You should post some examples of what you think is off the deep end, because this is not one of them.
Fr. A McDOnald (10:01)
Error has no right.
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