It was said that in the heyday of Communism in various countries, communists tried to infiltrate the Church to convert her to the Communistic ideology. This certainly happened to the bishops and clergy of the Russian Orthodox Church.
There was a try also in the Catholic Church of Poland and perhaps in some senior ranking officials in the Vatican. Certainly during the time the Nazis there were Catholic bishops who sympathized with some of the ideologies of Hitler.
It is also said that in Europe and in Italy and perhaps in the Vatican City State, that high ranking Church officials were Masons. European Masonry is much different than the USA's version and there remains a virulent anti-Catholicism. In fact Pope St. John Paul II reiterated the Church's historic censure of this group in the 1980's following a major scandal in Italy involving high ranking Church personnel and the Masons. Up until that time, there was a sort of detente with the Masons and Catholics in this country were allowed to join for fraternal reasons and insurance, etc. But no more.Catholics are not permitted to be Masons by Church law and the edict of Pope St. John Paul II.
I print below an article below from an evidently fundamentalist Protestant publication. One might read into this article a bit of homophobia but I think we can't underestimate the lobby of the homosexual community to mainstream their ideology concerning sex, public sexual expression and same sex marriage and a sort of dictatorial fascism concerning this lobby that is highly well financed with promoters in high place in the most important areas of communication, the old and new medias as well as entertainment.
Given the recent spike in lawsuits against the Catholic Church from so-called Catholics and non-Catholics who worked in our schools and then entered same-sex marriage only to be dismissed from employment with the Church's institutions, one has to think there is an agenda to change the Church through these sorts of tactics and to infiltrate the Church with people who have an ideological agenda against the Church's teaching on sexuality, chastity and marriage, anti-Catholicism in disguise similar to the other examples I report above, an infiltration of sorts.
I do not print the following as an endorsement of the entire contents of this Protestant publication but as something that should be pondered, critiqued and evaluated.
Churches warned: 'Tidal wave of gay theology' looming
Evangelist sued for Bible preaching sees lesbian worship singer as harbinger
Lively, president of Abiding Truth Ministries, said that with insiders on the offensive such as Vicky Beeching, a British-born artist who has become popular among evangelicals in the U.S., he expects “attacks on Christians in America like we’ve never seen before.”
He explained that after the Stonewall riots in 1969, homosexual activists banded together to oppose every American institution that did not fully accept and promote homosexual behavior.
The first victory was over the American Psychiatric Association, and within 40 years, every other group had been conquered, he said. The Boy Scouts were the latest to fall, just a year ago.
Now, the only organization left is the church, he said.
“All of their battle-hardened activists and enormous resources are all directed at the church,” he said.
The problem is that church leaders haven’t been preparing for such a fight, Lively said, and don’t really know what the movement is about.
Beeching revealed she is a lesbian in an interview last week with the Independent newspaper of London.
“What Jesus taught was a radical message of welcome and inclusion and love. I feel certain God loves me just the way I am, and I have a huge sense of calling to communicate that to young people,” she said.
Lively, however, said Beeching represents “the drawing back of the tide before a tsunami” and an indicator of “how bad this is going to get.”
He’s published a brochure for pastors that explains what the Bible says about homosexuality.
“Not a single biblical passage portrays homosexuality positively,” the brochure says. “Jesus unequivocally condemned ALL sexual sin including homosexuality by affirming the ‘one flesh’ paradigm of Genesis.”
It contends a “dangerous modern heresy called ‘gay theology’ is infiltrating the Christian church at an alarming pace.”
“Many believers, fearful of being called ‘haters,’ are trivializing the threat by calling homosexuality ‘just another sin,’” it says.
“But from Genesis to Revelation, the Bible teaches that homosexuality is NOT ‘just another sin.’ It is a symbol of extreme rebellion against God and harbinger of His wrath.”
He said his goal is to put the brochure into the hands of every pastor and Christian leader in America and around the world so they have a biblical explanation for why homosexual behavior is sinful.
Lively noted one of the founders of the “gay” agenda, Herbert Marcuse, expressed a desire to see the “disintegration of the … monogamic and patriarchal family.”
“One last barrier to ‘gay’ cultural hegemony remains: the Christian church,”
The case is significant because a ruling against him would mean that an international agenda based on anti-biblical standards could trump the U.S. Constitution’s freedom of speech and religion.
U.S. District Judge Michael Posner has let the case brought against Lively by an African group called Sexual Minorities Uganda, or SMUG, proceed.
SMUG calls Lively’s speech against homosexual behavior a “crime against humanity” in violation of “international law.” The plaintiffs allege the Alien Tort Statute in the United States allows them to make the charge in a U.S. court.
But Lively’s attorney, Horatio Mihet of Liberty Counsel, says his client’s preaching is protected by the Constitution.
“We believe SMUG’s claims are firmly foreclosed, not only by the First Amendment right to free speech, but also by the Supreme Court’s recent decision in Kiobel, which eliminated Alien Tort Statute claims for events that allegedly occurred in foreign nations,” he said.
It certainly is real. It is a complex test of a complex position. It would not surprise me to learn that many of the Bishops, especially in the middle of the 20th Century, were any of these groups, including homosexuals, Communists, Masons and whatever else, intent on infiltrating the Church and changing Her from within. But the Church is not a collection of Saints. We are sinners in every way. Our weakness was to think that the change in the hearts of these people would, or will, occur with out struggle.
The tolerance and prayer that allowed the sex abuse priests to continue failed because we were afraid of permanently injuring someone's reputation, or even worse, his feelings. We are hamstrung by the now faux science of psychology that has been pushed to political analysis in lieu of science. I do not think Bible citations help things, either. This is a case of science being usurped in the same manner as the Church may have been 80 years ago.
In the end we are in a battle for what is going to be allowed to be in our own minds. We will be evaluated and the thoughts ferreted out and we will be judged, here on earth by our fellow citizens for what is in our hearts. There is no where to flee, we must endure.
The homosexual, in effect, desires himself (i.e. his own sex), rather than an "other" (i.e. the complimentary sex--Vive la différence!). This just seems far too self-focused for sacred ministry.
Also, the priesthood must become fruitful, but the homosexual desires an utterly fruitless relationship, so that he cannot naturally appreciate the fruitfulness that must flow from the relationship between the priest and the Church.
Therefore, while those suffering from homosexuality should be cared for and aided in chaste living, they should not be welcomed into the priesthood. I doubt there are many homosexual young men deliberately infiltrating the priesthood, but I do think some such young men are simply lost and looking for confirmation of their condition via ordination. Be kind to them, but keep them out.
Let ISIS handle them.
Us laity do wonder to what degree the priesthood is infiltrated by a 'good old boy's network of gay clergy including bishops... and we wonder who to believe?
After all, the Wanderer was writing about child-sex abuse scandals IN THE 1980s! and yet no secular media outlet looked into it.
Many laity complained about Marxist infiltration in Catholic orders and chanceries in the 1980s as well and many of the personnel were the same actors.
We wonder how much of Mr. Rose' book "Goodbye good men" is true - certainly if even half the allegations of rampant abuse and corruption were true it would be a shock (but explain quite a lot about why homilies have been so watered down, why punches pulled, why discipline avoided...)
I second JBS' opinion that while we ought to welcome all people struggling with same sex attraction as brothers and sisters, we ought to NOT welcome them into seminaries or religious orders until/unless they have lived chaste lives and gotten therapy. In my experience the disorder is - like that proclivity to chemical addition - a sign of heightened sensitivity to emotional pain. They FEEL much more pain than we do, so rejection is a keener, more raw thing. Thus, therapy, tender loving care, friendship, and chastity are what we ought to offer them rather than encouragement to continue those ideations and the actions and habits such ideations lead to.
Finally, about the APA... it prides itself as many such guilds do on professional standards and the scientific method. But if you research the personnel and papers on which their 1973 decision to de-list same sex attraction from the DSM-III was based, you'll find a dearth of actual professional scientific method and instead a pre-ordained, partisan effort from start to finish. Handpicking homosexual partisans to one's task force, then only accepting their own papers (which they "peer reviewed" with other pro-homosexual activists) is not "doing science". No wonder since then they have studiously avoided actually doing studies and instead have just hurled invective and ad hominems on those who have done actual studies in the field.
We should not run scared of the partisans. They don't have a scientific basis to stand on in their hypothesis that any sexual ideation is harmless so long as someone feels it is, or their hypothesis that "society" alone accounts for any negative results of sexual ideations and behaviors.
Indeed, even now studies are conclusively proving that SSA is NOT genetic (twin studies) and that depression, violence, etc. are part and parcel of the lifestyle regardless of society's attitude. Indeed the CDC's data on men having sex with men ages 19-25 is shocking - all the rates of negative things are as high as ever despite them living their entire emotional lives in a bubble of increased social acceptance.
If we love them, we'll not run scared of any mafia.
I think homosexual priest are a real problem for today's church. I think the whole child abuse scandal is a result of homosexual priest infiltrating the church.
I think there are loads of them entering the priesthood. I have been told by several seminary dropouts that it was the best sex they ever had.
People want more than miracles, they want magic. They want people to sit in adoration of the Host and be changed so that not are their sins forgiven, they either don't feel the urge or it doesn't matter anyway.
All this fascination with sex is convincing me more and more that all of it is driven by a real physiological, if not actual physical, change when we allow ourselves to become emersed in pornography. That is why I also think medical science has failed our society by refusing to explore this.
The archdiocese of Atlanta is hosting an event to explore this particular topic rcg.
The details are here: The Pornography Plague: A Pastoral Response
2401 Lake Park Drive, SE, Smyrna, GA 30080
Friday, September 5th, 2014
10:30 am - 3:30 pm
Saturday, September 6th, 2014
9:30 am – 3:00 pm
Register at http://tiny.cc/pornplague
Many resources will be made available to those who attend. All clergy in attendance will receive a free resource packet to take home to his parish. The same packet will be available to others for the low cost of $5.
In addition, an abbreviated presentation will be offered on Thursday, Sept 4, 7:00-9:00 PM at St Brendan Parish in Cumming. No registration is required for Thursday evening.
If you have questions about these opportunities, contact Patrick Metts at 404-920-7643 or firstname.lastname@example.org
On the topic of actual infiltration many have written extensively about it including autobiographies of agents themselves. I don't think we can pooh pooh the possibility. Indeed, we ought to consider it entirely likely. That's how big boys play the realpolitik game folks. It's one of the oldest tricks in the book.
For centuries there have been problems with homosexuals in the priesthood. Like any other vocation or good work for God, the enemy attacks relentlessly using any means necessary.
However, what exploded in 2002 was the tip of the iceberg of a problem that had completely gone out of control. No matter how much certain people will repeat the carefully contrived terms "pedophilia" and "child abuse", it just wasn't that simple. The bishops hired the John Jay College of Criminal Justice to examine the problem and write a report and, well, let's just say many didn't like the results and subsequently downplayed them. The fact is, the overwhelming majority of sex abuse cases (that we know of) were SAME SEX cases, usually committed against adolescent males. The predators knew that they were the one age group least likely to come forward if they were abused that way--and it worked for a while.
Michael Rose's book is not the only volume on the infiltration of the priesthood by homosexuals. Randy Engel's Rite of Sodomy also explores the problem exhaustively and her finding are often horrifying.
The worst thing about this crisis is what it has done to the lives of the victims and their families and the terrible way it has hurt the reputation of the Church. The second worst thing about it is that it has made life much more difficult for good priests and the "corrective measures" to deal with the sex abuse crisis are often used unjustly against good priests.
The public sentiment has managed to quiet down a bit, but the problem is far from solved.
Yikes...some of this stuff flashes me back to the John Birch Society days. There's a Commie behind every bush...there's a homosexual behind every....altar?
I don't think there's a conspiracy, a group...like the Communist party...that has meetings and stuff, who want to "infiltrate" anything. They're just regular people (like one of my daughters) who want the same treatment and rights and privileges that everybody else has...without being hassled and harassed. I think the efforts toward gender equality are more akin to the civil rights movement than to an evil empire Communist conspiracy.
Who here besides me, has a gay friend or family member? Do you REALLY think he or she wants to infiltrate or destroy anything? I know my daughter does not.
This is all so disturbing and disconcerting. Homosexuality is so violative (the act) in such a profound way of God's law. Whenever I've been around someone who seems that way I try to act toward them as I believe a Christian should . Even when a person seems to be that way,I don't know for sure if they are homosexual or not. One thing I will say as that we should all pray for them as myself I do. Drugs, sexual deviancy, abortion and pornography are the scourges of our times. These are tools of the Devil which have always been around but never has he wielded them with such great impact as in our own time. Far too many of us have moved farther and farther away from God and left ourselves vulnerable to these abhorrent behaviors. We should resolve with greater effort, dedication and perseverance to pray for our brothers and sisters who find themselves slaves under Satan's spell. You who are in this condition should pray to the saints and the Blessed Virgin. Fast and pray and do so with perseverance. Pray the
rosary. Avoid temptation and any occasions of sin. Go to confession regularly. Ask others to pray for you.
God created the sexual act to be both unitive and procreative. Both aspects or dimensions are good and are linked together and both are good since they come from God who is Goodness itself. The unitive, pleasurable dimension of the marriage union is that aspect which conveys and enhances a loving commitment to each partner while the procreative is joined to it with the express desire and hopeful expectation to bring about new life, which itself has the expectation of future pleasure. The act can only be proper and legitimate within a Divinely ordained marriage which is that which is in accordance with Church law and is between a man and a woman.Sexual pleasure for itself leads to objectification and disordered passions. This is not true for those who are lawfully married and are at that age where they can no longer create life according to God’s for-ordained means for doing so. The operative principle here is: “Are you co-operating with God in what He intended or are you thwarting His Holy Will?” In the older couple, the procreative aspect of the marriage union has run its course according to the natural Divine order of things and how God intended it.
Same- sex marriage can never be legitimate because the sole dimension of the sexual act from the beginning is toward pleasure only. In other words, each partner is to be used for the sexual gratification of the other, since there is no other dimension (as with the marriage of a man and a woman if that marriage is carried out as God intended). I know that those in a same sex marriage would say that thy love each partner but on a certain level any person can love any other person. I speak here of love that can (and should) exist between brothers and sisters in a family and also of a platonic or a spiritual love that can exist between ourselves and other human beings. Love in a Divinely ordained sacramental marriage while similar, is of a different nature than these due to the covenantal relationship to God and the graces imparted to those who are properly disposed.Yes, it is possible for a sacramental marriage to go bad or perhaps never to have been valid in the first place. A same-sex union however, can never be a valid, legitimate marriage. In relation to what God desires, it is unnatural and in every aspect unfruitful. God is a Merciful God but He is also a Holy God and He cannot approve of those things which go against His Holy nature.
Yes anonymous, I DO think that there is a group of homosexuals committed to infiltrating the Church. WHY? It's simple. The Catholic Church is the last and only organization left that can objectively take a position against homosexuality with integrity and deal with it head-on. Governments cannot do it. Muslims cannot do it (unless you consider extermination a "solution") and all the other "Christian Churches" have given in to the pressure to conform. Since they know they cannot change the teachings, the most committed and militant among the homosexuals have decided to get into the machinery of the Church and try to effect change that way. No one was more effective than the late Cardinal of Chicago.
Homosexuality can try to wear the mantle of civil rights , but the Church is not a hate group and, try as they might, naming a disorder for what it is is not hate. They can manipulate the courts to rule otherwise, but trying to get the Church to say that homosexuality is OK or to "affirm" the practice, is like asking a physician to assure us that taking narcotics cannot harm the liver.
The Catholic Church loves sinners. It hates sin.
Sorry. This isn't about "civil rights".
I have noticed what seems to be a newer trend in this whole bizarre push for homosexual acceptance: it is the vocal Christian homosexual. Now a homosexual person makes public statements that they are a believer in Christ, that Jesus loves and affirms them just as they are, they are happy and cheerful, and say openly a denomination's teaching, if it is against homosexuality, is wrong.
What confusion! It is like the the notorious Madame striding up the center aisle to take her place in the front pew.
I know many "music ministers" in our diocese appear to be gay. I believe many priests are as well. I believe when these things that are done in the dark come into the light, it will cause another scandalous wound in the Body of Christ. Because these are not gays who are struggling with their sin; these are those who deny what they do is a sin. There's a vast difference. God help us!
Had lunch with a Methodist minister, a product of Emory Divinity School, the other day. He calls himself
a "universalist," saying that the grace of Christ can only truly triumph if all sin and evil are put underfoot. The only way this can happen is if everybody is "in Christ." There is no "judgement in historical time" because this would be counter to Christ's love and mercy. There can be no eternal punishment because this is incompatible with the triumph of good over evil, etc. All sins are equal and are equally redeemed. Evil rules this world and can only be defeated by a total triumph of grace. You get the idea.
When I pointed out that this is tantamount to a denial of the goodness of Creation and, thus, makes meaningless Holy Scripture, the Church, and most of Christ's teachings, he merely shrugged. My last comment to him before changing the subject, "Interesting theology you have."
The thing about moral theology is that it is based on principles.
Now a principle is either universally valid or it's not a principle.
So if the principle being invoked is subjectivity trumps objectivity, and the personal self-referential feelings of a person are all that matters when it comes to sexuality, then it follows that two can play the same game and thus 'no one can judge' ANY side in the debate.
So say someone FEELS GOOD about hurling invectives at other people's sexual choices? Who is anyone else to judge that this is immoral if it makes that person FEEL GOOD? How can Political correctness be moral if each person is the self-referential criteria of what is right and wrong "for themselves"?
See? See how moral relativism is really just 'tactical' relativism? How in practical usage it's not at all the case that pro-homosexualists are preaching that there are no right and wrong way to be human. No, they simply are declaring their "lifestyle" to be OK and any dispute of this claim to be immoral.
Fortunately we have this little thing called "the scientific method" which, if used, can prove beyond all rational doubt that some ideations and some actions in sexuality or any other interpersonal behavior are harmful to the proper functioning of the mind, body, and psychology of any person.
That there are indeed objectively wrong ways to behave and think completely apart from the subjective state of the thinker and actor....that a person can be oblivious and yet still gravely ill and in need of intervention.
Addicts will almost always insist that they are fine and in control and not at all addicted - that everyone ELSE are the ones with the problem. The same goes with these poor deluded men who think being gay gives them some super-duper insight unavailable to the rest of us (after all how would they know?).
I do believe they have a heightened sense of emotional pain and/or have suffered real trauma and thus need therapy and loving friendship to be restored to balance. But to transmogrify (to use a Calvin and Hobbes word) what is a loss into some sort of treasure is just silly.
I have really enjoyed reading your comments over the past 3 weeks; not just what you say (full of insights that one can get his brain around easily), but how you say it as well. The same is true of John Nolan, Henry, Robert K, Joe P, George and Some others here. Thanks folks for keeping the talk informative, challenging and above-board in presentation. We all are angered at times by the "stuff" out there, but dialogue about it shuts down when emotion is in control and trumps good discussion.
Again, just thanks...
Oh, and rcg of course! Thanks!!
And, OF COURSE, JBS! And others my shrinking brain has failed to mention...thanks.
Unitive and procreative
We partake of food because we enjoy it and it gives pleasure, but its primary purpose is to give sustenance; to keep us alive and healthy. The pleasure we derive from eating cannot be separated from the act of eating itself, because it is necessary to consume food to experience the pleasure that comes from eating it. Likewise, you cannot separate the necessity to consume food from the act of eating, because if you don’t partake of food, your body will die. Eating has both a necessary aspect and a pleasurable aspect. Many things in the modern diet are not healthy for our bodies. There are foods that we don’t particularly like that we are willing to (or should) consume anyway because we know they are healthier for us. One could subsist solely on cake and candy for a while, but eventually such a diet would aversely affect the health of the body. And so it is with those who use sex for pleasure only. Consuming food or using sex in this way just for pleasure can be very harmful to us. People derive pleasure from listening to music or watching a movie on their television. But it would be folly if we had power coming into our house just for the purpose of entertainment, We need light to see at night , heat to cook with and keep us warm in the winter, and air conditioning to keep us cool in the summer. The utilitarian aspect of things we use has primacy over the aspect that gives us pleasure although the two are linked because directly or indirectly, each one is needed and good for us if used in the proper way. Those who use sex for pleasure will more often than not eventually move on to other partners and there will in many develop an attraction toward and then an addiction to pornography. There are those who will develop an attraction toward and then an addiction to drugs. They will continually seek that which cannot satisfy or bring happiness. Those who are most fortunate will eventually receive (due to the prayerful intercession and help of others) the grace to find their way back to God who is the Source of true happiness. Those who are caught up in these things are in great need of our prayers.
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