Saturday, May 18, 2019


This is a very insightful comment from John Nolan. I grew up in Georgia, historically the middle of the Bible Belt. Most Catholics in our diocese were less than 3 % of the population. And yes even in pre-Vatican II times there was some syncretism with our Catholicism and evangelical Protestantism. With Vatican II’s unbridled ecumenism this syncretism went on steroids especially with charismatic Catholics.

Btw, John, Chick-fil-a is a Georgia founded fast food restaurant with drive throughs, and sells only boneless chicken sandwiches, strips and nuggets with sides and delicious peach milkshakes. The founders are staunch southern Baptists. The company is now going international and you will love it when it comes to the UK!

With that preface discuss John’s insights:

John Nolan has left a new comment on your post "THIS IS LONG OVER DUE, BUT BETTER LATE THAN NEVER": 

Isn't Chick-fil-A a restaurant? Surely no-one is suggesting that restaurants close on Sundays? Strict and dour sabbatarianism is a Protestant trait; in the ultra-Presbyterian parts of N.Ireland children's playgrounds are locked on Sundays, and the neighbours will object to your washing the car.

Real Catholics know that the Lord's day is a feast day. They attend Mass in the morning, not in the evening and certainly not on the previous day. Evening Masses were not universally permitted until 1957 and the Saturday anticipated Mass (it isn't a vigil Mass) was first introduced in Italy after Vatican II and gradually spread.

The rest of Sunday is a time for celebration. Our medieval ancestors knew how to eat, drink and be merry. There is a a neo-Puritanism infecting the Church. Dull liturgies focused almost entirely on the spoken word which must be immediately and literally understood, coupled with a visceral dislike of beauty in art, music and architecture, are symptomatic of this trend.

It needs to be resisted, and strongly


Anonymous said...

"They attended Mass in the morning."

Well, if I am correct, the ancient Jewish tradition (and I think this is true also in the Eastern Orthodox tradition) has the Sabbath running from "sundown to sundown", not Midnight to Midnight. Atlanta's Greek Orthodox Cathedral, for instance, has one Easter Divine Liturgy (at the pretty late hour of 11pm the night before)---that's it. Were they not being faithful to "Mass in the morning"? If anything, a better case can be made for an evening Mass, as the Mass is making the Eucharist, or "Last Supper" present. And I doubt the Last Supper happened at 10 in the morning....

But I guess there could be a relevant debate about whether Mass at 5 Saturday afternoon at this time of year (when the sunset is much later in the Northern Hemisphere than in December) is stretching "Sunday" too far. You probably would not get people going to a vigil at 8 Sunday night however....the Cathedral of Christ the King here in Atlanta has Masses at 4 and 5pm Saturday, and they are crowded!

John Nolan said...

In point of fact, Atlanta's Greek Orthodox Cathedral normally has Sunday Divine Liturgy at 8 am. On Easter Sunday (28 April) it was at 11 a.m. There was a vigil the night before, but what form it took I don't know.

In the Western monastic tradition Mass comes between Terce and Sext, i.e. in the morning.

rcg said...

My Sunday habit is to meet in the Parish Hall for a bit with various members of the Parish concerning everything from families to repairs and upgrades to the Church structure and campus. After that there is a short rest and reconvene at the local microbrewery Cooperative I am a member of. It is a tiny place in a neighborhood the community is trying to reclaim from the drug lords and welfare queens; only about twelve taps and a respectable bespoke menu from mostly local sources. Of course the patrons are all sorts besides Vetus Ordo Catholics. But we make our blessing over the first glass and carry on as friendly and loudly as everyone else. No one complains. We are accepted for what we are and are welcome. If there is conversion for some, it may start there.

Adam Michael said...

Just to chime in a little - The Paschal Divine Liturgy in the Orthodox Church does occur around Midnight on Pascha (Easter Sunday). Later in the day on Pascha, Agape Vespers are celebrated. Regarding vigil services, sometimes Vesperal Divine Liturgies (Mass with Vespers) are offered on the eves of major feasts in Orthodoxy. This counts for the feast day Liturgy. However, in the Orthodox Church, there is no general approval of anticipated Sunday Divine Liturgies on Saturday evenings. Some mission situations may occasionally do this under oikonomia, but it is always an exception and there is no provision made for this in Orthodoxy.