The gathering storm…
I quite sure there will be nothing but silence. Representing the contempt this so-called "shepherd" has for the flock.
Very Rev. Thomas Petri, O.P., the prominent, respected moral theologian, who has called upon the Open Letter scholars to recant, noted:"Why they chose not only to include these concerns but also to veer into criticism on pro forma appointments, disciplinary measures, and liturgical vestiture as “facts” supporting their conclusion (which seems to deride the Pope’s character more than his teaching) is beyond me."That is what jumped at me as I read the Open Letter. The letter veered into nonsense.The Open Letter folks presented bizarre "facts" to prove supposedly that Pope Francis is guilty of heresy. To make their case against the Vicar of Christ, Pope Francis, the Open Letter folks even cited the “satanic” staff used at the opening Mass during the 2018 A.D. Youth Synod.The Open Letter is embarrassing. The letter, as Very Rev. Thomas Petri, O.P. stated, veers into claims that are beyond comprehension.It is beyond belief that "prominent" theologians and scholars produced such weak nonsense to "prove" that His Holiness, Pope Francis, has trafficked in heresy.I pray that the Open Letter folks, who have embarrassed themselves...and worse...will heed Very Rev. Thomas Petri, O.P. That is, that they will recant.Please Open Letter folks, recant...then toss your awful, embarrassing letter into the trash can.As God has commanded you, submit to Pope Francis.Pax.Mark Thomas
Agree with Dan. Keep your expectations low.
Agreed Dan. "Clericalism" from the very top on steroids
I don't know as to why Rome should respond to the old, tired, boring right-wing whines that are contained in the Open Letter. Should Rome wish to respond...fine.But the letter contains tired, old right-wing whines about Amoris Laetitia, the "satanic" staff that was used at World Youth Day......whines about Papal appointmets...vestments...folks greeted in audience by Pope Francis.As Very Rev. Thomas Petri, O.P., noted, the letter veers into directions that are beyond comprehension.The letter is weak. The letter rehashes old, tired, bits of nonsense that the right-wing has whined about since 2013 A.D.As Very Rev. Thomas Petri, O.P. said, the Open Letter folks need to recant.Pax.Mark Thomas
Listen Mark, I've never been "right wing." And just because an individual, or group, can be smeared with "names," does nothing really to prove the invalidity of the concerns.
Mark, are you SURE that you have not yet noticed any difference in the level of concerns expressed during the reign of Framcie, as opposed to popes of old?Can you really blame it all on a sudden explosion of right-wingers?Or perhaps it is you who just refuses to face the problems.
Quit cutting and pasting Mark, and use your own mind to address the concerns in the letter.
Mark ThomasWhy do you assume that Thomas Petri, ordained only ten years ago and neither greatly qualified nor widely known, is more authoritative than Aidan Nichols?You are clutching at straws. The informed criticism of Amoris Laetitia has been ongoing since its publication, is based on an intelligent reading of that document combined with commentary by PF himself, and is not going to disappear simply because intellectually challenged people like yourself, who hold to the heretical belief that popes are oracles of God, will not face facts.
"The informed criticism of Amoris Laetitia has been ongoing since its publication,..."There has also been informed support for AL."...is based on an intelligent reading of that document..."Those who have been supportive of AL are as intelligent than those who have found fault."...intellectually challenged people like yourself,..."Once again you smear those who do not share your views. Those who do not share your view are, in your view, intellectually inferior to you. Convenient, that.
I completely understand Mark Thomas's discomfort on finding fault with a pope. This is something that used to be second-nature for Catholics but sine 1870 it's been drilled into us that the pope is some sort of semi-divine being. I think an awful lot of people feel that way, including, I suspect, the Thomas Petri OP whom he cites. And the pope is, after all, our 'papa'--and I'm sure all of us have a black sheep or two in the family, but we still love them and stick by them. It might be a crazy aunt, or an alcoholic brother, or a gay cousin, or a great uncle twice removed who's doing time in the big house for GBH, but they're still ours.I also think we owe Mark a debt of gratitude. Here we have a pope who has obstructed investigations into corruption in Vatican finances, promoted and praised clerics he knew to be homosexual child abusers or abetters of child abusers (and lied about it), and has dissembled over church doctrine such as the death penalty. Many of us have become understandably disillusioned and angry, which is an all-too-human response, but not the ideal response. But Mark, on the other hand, remains generous in his faithfulness and loyalty, whatever the pope's myriad failings. Thank you, Mark, for giving us this wonderful example of true charity.
Dan said..."Mark, are you SURE that you have not yet noticed any difference in the level of concerns expressed during the reign of Framcie, as opposed to popes of old?"Dan, are you old enough to recall the filth that was tossed — and continues to be tossed — at Pope Saint John XXIII?Dan, do you recall the venom that right-wingers and left-wingers spewed at Pope Saint John Paul II.Do you recall the hatred that Archbishop Lefebvre launched at Pope Saint John Paul II?1986 A.D., Archbishop Lefebvre:"...the Roman authorities turn their backs on their predecessors and break with the Catholic Church, and they put themselves at the service of the destroyers of Christianity and of the universal Kingdom of Our Lord Jesus Christ."The present acts of John Paul II and the national episcopates illustrates, year by year, this radical change in the conception of the Faith, the Church, the priesthood, the world, and salvation by grace."Pax.Mark Thomas
John Nolan said..."The informed criticism of Amoris Laetitia has been ongoing since its publication, is based on an intelligent reading of that document combined with commentary by PF himself..."Only the Vicar of Christ, and bishops in communion with him, have the right to render the "informed" understanding of Amoris Laetitia.The microscopic amount of "informed" — in reality, uniformed — Open Letter, Filial Correction folks who have attacked Amoris Laetita's orthodoxy are at odds with the Magisterium.God has authorized his Magisterium, not John Nolan's "informed" folks in question, to have pronounced upon Amoris Laetitia.Pax.Mark Thomas
Yes Mark, I remember. I do not think it was as bad, as constant, and as widespread.
Dan said..."Yes Mark, I remember. I do not think it was as bad, as constant, and as widespread."Dan, the folks who have spewed venom at the Vicar of Christ, Pope Francis, are not widespread. Just as the attacks against Popes Saint John XXIII, Saint Paul VI, Saint John Paul II, and Benedict XVI were not widespread. (I don't recall attacks lodged against Pope John Paul I during his brief reign as Pope.)The above-mentioned attacks within the Church were initiated by tiny groups of right-wing and left-wing fanatics.Today, the right-wing Open Letter mutineers, and their ilk, who've attacked the Vicar of Christ, Pope Francis, are microscopic in number.Pax.Mark ThomasThe Open Letter "is a hodgepodge of concerns that prevent it being taken very seriously as a whole.” — Very Rev. Thomas Petri, O.P., Vice President and Academic Dean Pontifical Faculty of the Immaculate Conception at the Dominican House of Studies.
Mark we are not going to agree on much of anything I suspect, including the the point at which concerns and criticisms becomes 'widespread.'
Dan said..."Mark we are not going to agree on much of anything I suspect, including the the point at which concerns and criticisms becomes 'widespread.'That is the way of Catholics. From the dawn of the Church to date, we have disagree with each other as a matter of course.Pax.Mark Thomas
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