Father McDonald, the priest who offered the Mass posted to Facebook had done so in horrific fashion.
I believe that it's safe to say that that priest, as well as his ilk, have led few, if any, Catholics into deeper communion with God (other than having driven Catholics into uplifting liturgies/parishes).
In regard to the first photograph: Very inspirational (in my opinion)...at least on the surface. But given that appearances may be deceiving:
Is the community in question packed with believers who have followed Pope Benedict XVI in their having granted "unconditional reverence and obedience" to the Bishop of Rome?
Or, despite the beautiful photo in question, is the community in question sedevacantist?
Does the community in question suffer from the problems that one encounters within the TLM Movement?
That is, a mutiny against the Magisterium, Vatican II, as well as the Holy Mass of Pope Saint Paul VI?
Have they turned for inspiration to such folks as New Catholic (Rorate Caeli), Peter Kwasniewski, Michael Matt (The Remnant)?
Do they agree with Archbishop Lefebvre's declaration that the Holy Mass of Pope Saint Paul VI is a "bastard rite," and that "New Church's" holy Sacraments are "bastard sacraments?"
Father McDonald, in regard to the second photograph:
I doubt that the priest in question, as well as his ilk, have led few, if any, Catholics into deeper communion with God (other than having driven Catholics into uplifting liturgies/parishes).
In regard to the first photograph: Very inspirational (in my opinion)...at least on the surface. But given that appearances may be deceiving:
Is the community in question packed with believers who have followed Pope Benedict XVI in their having granted "unconditional reverence and obedience" to the Bishop of Rome? Or, despite the beautiful photo in question, is the community in question sedevacantist?
Does the community in question suffer from problems that one encounters within the TLM Movement?
That is, a mutiny against the Magisterium, Vatican II, as well as the Holy Mass of Pope Saint Paul VI?
Have they turned for inspiration to such folks as New Catholic (Rorate Caeli), Peter Kwasniewski, Michael Matt (The Remnant)?
Do they agree with Archbishop Lefebvre's declaration that the Holy Mass of Pope Saint Paul VI is a "bastard rite," and that "New Church's" holy Sacraments are "bastard sacraments?"
Regarding your quoting of Archbishop Lefebvre re “bastard rite” et al …That is seriously wrong, unfair and problematic etc in about a dozen different ways…
We will take just two, okay?
1. Do you understand how unfair and simply wrong it is to slander the memory of a brave and genuinely holy man and archbishop by ignoring the approximately 1,000 words spoken in a speech and written in a letter etc in the lead up to those words you quote…Mark, what does the following mean to you: Often context is important; sometimes context is almost everything….
2. What does it mean to you when sometimes one can tell you: Often to translate is to betray…
Paul.
PS - when are you going to report benefitting from advice re taking a break from the often crazy world of Catholic cyberspace, with its daily reporting of bombshell news, latest scandals etc and go drink a few beers and talk to someone anyone face to face; and have a few laughs too and relax…?
Mark, Francis is pope. He is also a man; and an old man. Okay? 87 this year, I think…you seem to have THE strongest faith or strongest beliefs re Francis probably being in the top 3 most holiest popes of all time…why not have an equally strong faith that probably within 1 to 5 years years time Francis will be entering Heaven for an eternity of happiness…. Do you believe that, Mark? If so, tomorrow, why not unplug your computer, turn off your phone….and on the 700th day have a day of rest from defending Francis and worrying what anyone anywhere is writing about Francis….and get out for, say, a few beers, a few laughs and watch a good, light funny battle….? Why not?
Where I'm focused is on the altar, the HIGH altar.
It's simple, noble, elevated and stunning. A true focal point. It's not 40 feet high with 6 rows of gradines. My point? Modeled here is a what easily could be implemented in new construction and existing construction. Simple and very effective regarding re-enchantment and re-orientation.
Why don't you go interview them and if they don't laugh you out of the church, perhaps you'll find answers to your questions.
Your sanctimonious brat-child conclusions are insulting. You're "I'm taking my marbles and going home" dismissal of me during civil discussion turned me off totally. Who do you think you are, by the way? No one appointed you to be inquisition. You may wish to reflect on what you are about before waving around the "holy" card as often as you do. These are faithful Catholics, with a capital F as they do NOT have to be there, having an encounter with Christ in the traditional way that resonates with them. You have to dredge up unfounded accusations against this particular community as they celebrate their dedication/consecration.
Bear in mind that as an Eastern Catholic, I don't have a dog in this fight. I'm just sympathetic and empathetic to what's occurred and how it has affected them, among others.
Reflect, repent, grow up and for the love of St. Peter, write like a normal person.
Paul, I reported simply that which Archbishop Lefebvre had declared.
It is Archbishop Lefebvre, not I, who incurred the grave penalty of excommunication.
He insisted that "Modernist Rome's" reformed Mass was a "bastard rite."
He insisted that "Modernist Rome's" holy Sacraments were "bastard Sacraments.
Paul, do you support the following from Archbishop Lefebvre?
"Indeed, it is clear that since the Second Vatican Council, the Pope and the Bishops are making more and more of a clear departure from their predecessors...the Roman authorities turn their backs on their predecessors and break with the Catholic Church, and they put themselves at the service of the destroyers of Christianity and of the universal Kingdom of Our Lord Jesus Christ.'
"The present acts of John Paul II and the national episcopates illustrates, year by year, this radical change in the conception of the Faith, the Church, the priesthood, the world, and salvation by grace.
"John Paul II encourages the false religions to pray to their false gods — an immeasurable, unprecedented scandal.
"The rupture does not come from us, but from Paul VI and John Paul II who break with their predecessors.
"This denial of the whole past of the Church by these two popes and the bishops who imitate them is an inconceivable impiety for those who remain Catholic in fidelity to twenty centuries of the same Faith.
"Thus we consider as null everything inspired by this spirit of denial of the past: all the post-conciliar reforms, and all the acts of Rome accomplished in this impiety."
Perhaps you could listen a little better? YouTube “comedies” are good BUT still involve staring at a screen. What was the last time you, for example, spent a weekend not looking at the screen of anything? I could easily be wrong here; but a few beers, or coffee etc, communicating face to face with another human being; and or getting some sun and exercise in a national park etc….is a whole different, and better world…
One point I’m trying to make here = I think it very VERY unlikely you could communicate with a TLM Catholic (or communicate with anyone really) face to face, in a cafe, in a bar or pub, face to face, or at a BBQ in a national park etc like you communicate or attempt to communicate with people online on blogs and website comments sections etc…
Yesterday, Paul said..."Watch a good, light funny movie.”
Today, Paul said..."Perhaps you could listen a little better? YouTube “comedies” are good BUT still involve staring at a screen. What was the last time you, for example, spent a weekend not looking at the screen of anything?"
You had told me to watch a movie. That would entail my having to look at a screen.
Today, you have exhorted me not to look at a screen.
In polite company, social graces/skills would lead one to simply say "thank you for your concern". Customarily, being argumentative and having a "gotcha" moment isn't desirable. Your incessant need to be "right", even with our priest host and other priest commentors makes discussion and tolerance challenging. I sincerely hope your interactions outside of this forum do not follow a similar path. Ease up a little, despite our mutual familiarity after keyboard warrioring together for several years here, this is just a blog, it isn't life. In life, you don't want to be the last one picked for dodge ball in gym class.
If you want to ignore and or pretend that I have not at least 4 times recently SUGGESTED, not exhorted, you at least occasionally take a break of reading online material and commenting on blogs etc and instead over a few beers, or coffee, try communicating with people face to face......well, Mark that is your choice.
A similar situation to a month or so ago when you quoted half of what Fr A wrote and not the full sentence Fr A wrote because that did not suit the point or argument you were trying to make.
TJM pointed this out; but you simply ignored TJM too.
Paul, in regard to "a month or so ago when you quoted half of what Fr A wrote and not the full sentence Fr A wrote because that did not suit the point or argument you were trying to make."
I do not know what you are talking about.
"In regard to "TJM pointed this out; but you simply ignored TJM too."
I have ignored him for a very long time.
Paul, for a long time here, I have refrained generally from having engaged in conversations that have not pertained to the Church. I will return now to that practice.
But I enjoy certain light-hearted moments that allow me to joke...especially with Father McDonald.
Other than that, I will refrain from wasting time and energy on comments that do not interest me.
16 comments:
Well the geriatrics in Rome would say the Novus Ordo which has been shedding millions of Catholics for decades!
The top photo evidences worship of the Almighty the bottom photo, the priest worshipping himself
Father McDonald, the priest who offered the Mass posted to Facebook had done so in horrific fashion.
I believe that it's safe to say that that priest, as well as his ilk, have led few, if any, Catholics into deeper communion with God (other than having driven Catholics into uplifting liturgies/parishes).
In regard to the first photograph: Very inspirational (in my opinion)...at least on the surface. But given that appearances may be deceiving:
Is the community in question packed with believers who have followed Pope Benedict XVI in their having granted "unconditional reverence and obedience" to the Bishop of Rome?
Or, despite the beautiful photo in question, is the community in question sedevacantist?
Does the community in question suffer from the problems that one encounters within the TLM Movement?
That is, a mutiny against the Magisterium, Vatican II, as well as the Holy Mass of Pope Saint Paul VI?
Have they turned for inspiration to such folks as New Catholic (Rorate Caeli), Peter Kwasniewski, Michael Matt (The Remnant)?
Do they agree with Archbishop Lefebvre's declaration that the Holy Mass of Pope Saint Paul VI is a "bastard rite," and that "New Church's" holy Sacraments are "bastard sacraments?"
Pax.
Mark Thomas
Father McDonald, in regard to the second photograph:
I doubt that the priest in question, as well as his ilk, have led few, if any, Catholics into deeper communion with God (other than having driven Catholics into uplifting liturgies/parishes).
In regard to the first photograph: Very inspirational (in my opinion)...at least on the surface. But given that appearances may be deceiving:
Is the community in question packed with believers who have followed Pope Benedict XVI in their having granted "unconditional reverence and obedience" to the Bishop of Rome? Or, despite the beautiful photo in question, is the community in question sedevacantist?
Does the community in question suffer from problems that one encounters within the TLM Movement?
That is, a mutiny against the Magisterium, Vatican II, as well as the Holy Mass of Pope Saint Paul VI?
Have they turned for inspiration to such folks as New Catholic (Rorate Caeli), Peter Kwasniewski, Michael Matt (The Remnant)?
Do they agree with Archbishop Lefebvre's declaration that the Holy Mass of Pope Saint Paul VI is a "bastard rite," and that "New Church's" holy Sacraments are "bastard sacraments?"
Pax.
Mark Thomas
Mark,
Regarding your quoting of Archbishop Lefebvre re “bastard rite” et al …That is seriously wrong, unfair and problematic etc in about a dozen different ways…
We will take just two, okay?
1. Do you understand how unfair and simply wrong it is to slander the memory of a brave and genuinely holy man and archbishop by ignoring the approximately 1,000 words spoken in a speech and written in a letter etc in the lead up to those words you quote…Mark, what does the following mean to you:
Often context is important; sometimes context is almost everything….
2. What does it mean to you when sometimes one can tell you:
Often to translate is to betray…
Paul.
PS - when are you going to report benefitting from advice re taking a break from the often crazy world of Catholic cyberspace, with its daily reporting of bombshell news, latest scandals etc and go drink a few beers and talk to someone anyone face to face; and have a few laughs too and relax…?
Mark, Francis is pope. He is also a man; and an old man. Okay? 87 this year, I think…you seem to have THE strongest faith or strongest beliefs re Francis probably being in the top 3 most holiest popes of all time…why not have an equally strong faith that probably within 1 to 5 years years time Francis will be entering Heaven for an eternity of happiness….
Do you believe that, Mark?
If so, tomorrow, why not unplug your computer, turn off your phone….and on the 700th day have a day of rest from defending Francis and worrying what anyone anywhere is writing about Francis….and get out for, say, a few beers, a few laughs and watch a good, light funny battle….?
Why not?
……watch a good, light funny movie.”
In terms of harming the faith I rank PF right up there with Paul VI and the Borgia and Medici popes
The answer to the posed question is obvious.
Where I'm focused is on the altar, the HIGH altar.
It's simple, noble, elevated and stunning. A true focal point. It's not 40 feet high with 6 rows of gradines. My point? Modeled here is a what easily could be implemented in new construction and existing construction. Simple and very effective regarding re-enchantment and re-orientation.
Mark Thomas,
Why don't you go interview them and if they don't laugh you out of the church, perhaps you'll find answers to your questions.
Your sanctimonious brat-child conclusions are insulting. You're "I'm taking my marbles and going home" dismissal of me during civil discussion turned me off totally. Who do you think you are, by the way? No one appointed you to be inquisition. You may wish to reflect on what you are about before waving around the "holy" card as often as you do. These are faithful Catholics, with a capital F as they do NOT have to be there, having an encounter with Christ in the traditional way that resonates with them. You have to dredge up unfounded accusations against this particular community as they celebrate their dedication/consecration.
Bear in mind that as an Eastern Catholic, I don't have a dog in this fight. I'm just sympathetic and empathetic to what's occurred and how it has affected them, among others.
Reflect, repent, grow up and for the love of St. Peter, write like a normal person.
Paul, I reported simply that which Archbishop Lefebvre had declared.
It is Archbishop Lefebvre, not I, who incurred the grave penalty of excommunication.
He insisted that "Modernist Rome's" reformed Mass was a "bastard rite."
He insisted that "Modernist Rome's" holy Sacraments were "bastard Sacraments.
Paul, do you support the following from Archbishop Lefebvre?
"Indeed, it is clear that since the Second Vatican Council, the Pope and the Bishops are making more and more of a clear departure from their predecessors...the Roman authorities turn their backs on their predecessors and break with the Catholic Church, and they put themselves at the service of the destroyers of Christianity and of the universal Kingdom of Our Lord Jesus Christ.'
"The present acts of John Paul II and the national episcopates illustrates, year by year, this radical change in the conception of the Faith, the Church, the priesthood, the world, and salvation by grace.
"John Paul II encourages the false religions to pray to their false gods — an immeasurable, unprecedented scandal.
"The rupture does not come from us, but from Paul VI and John Paul II who break with their predecessors.
"This denial of the whole past of the Church by these two popes and the bishops who imitate them is an inconceivable impiety for those who remain Catholic in fidelity to twenty centuries of the same Faith.
"Thus we consider as null everything inspired by this spirit of denial of the past: all the post-conciliar reforms, and all the acts of Rome accomplished in this impiety."
Pax.
Mark Thomas
Paul said..."……watch a good, light funny movie."
It is not a movie, but will the following work?
Jonathan Winters, as grandma Maude Frickert, buys a Zenith:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QsrsYBT3Eg
Pax.
Mark Thomas
Mark,
Perhaps you could listen a little better?
YouTube “comedies” are good BUT still involve staring at a screen.
What was the last time you, for example, spent a weekend not looking at the screen of anything?
I could easily be wrong here; but a few beers, or coffee etc, communicating face to face with another human being; and or getting some sun and exercise in a national park etc….is a whole different, and better world…
One point I’m trying to make here = I think it very VERY unlikely you could communicate with a TLM Catholic (or communicate with anyone really) face to face, in a cafe, in a bar or pub, face to face, or at a BBQ in a national park etc like you communicate or attempt to communicate with people online on blogs and website comments sections etc…
P.
Yesterday, Paul said..."Watch a good, light funny movie.”
Today, Paul said..."Perhaps you could listen a little better? YouTube “comedies” are good BUT still involve staring at a screen. What was the last time you, for example, spent a weekend not looking at the screen of anything?"
You had told me to watch a movie. That would entail my having to look at a screen.
Today, you have exhorted me not to look at a screen.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
Mark Thomas,
In polite company, social graces/skills would lead one to simply say "thank you for your concern". Customarily, being argumentative and having a "gotcha" moment isn't desirable. Your incessant need to be "right", even with our priest host and other priest commentors makes discussion and tolerance challenging. I sincerely hope your interactions outside of this forum do not follow a similar path. Ease up a little, despite our mutual familiarity after keyboard warrioring together for several years here, this is just a blog, it isn't life. In life, you don't want to be the last one picked for dodge ball in gym class.
I think Paul's suggestion was understandable.
Mark,
If you want to ignore and or pretend that I have not at least 4 times recently SUGGESTED, not exhorted, you at least occasionally take a break of reading online material and commenting on blogs etc and instead over a few beers, or coffee, try communicating with people face to face......well, Mark that is your choice.
A similar situation to a month or so ago when you quoted half of what Fr A wrote and not the full sentence Fr A wrote because that did not suit the point or argument you were trying to make.
TJM pointed this out; but you simply ignored TJM too.
Paul, in regard to "a month or so ago when you quoted half of what Fr A wrote and not the full sentence Fr A wrote because that did not suit the point or argument you were trying to make."
I do not know what you are talking about.
"In regard to "TJM pointed this out; but you simply ignored TJM too."
I have ignored him for a very long time.
Paul, for a long time here, I have refrained generally from having engaged in conversations that have not pertained to the Church. I will return now to that practice.
But I enjoy certain light-hearted moments that allow me to joke...especially with Father McDonald.
Other than that, I will refrain from wasting time and energy on comments that do not interest me.
Thank you.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
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