When I was in the 1970’s seminary and those immediate years after ordination, most of us in the clergy really thought that Vatican II desired all the situational ethics that Jesuits then and now were promoting. There were many others as well, Charles Curran being a big one in this country.
But there were sane voices in the hierarchy fighting back. Pope Paul VI, enfeebled by depression and old age, was not a strong leader but he pushed back and lamented so much of what was being proposed. But he was ineffectual and compromised. But at least he held the line on truth.
We owe a great debt of gratitude to St. Pope John Paul II and Pope Benedict XVI. The aging generation of revolutionary baby-boomers who fail to see the folly of their folly and the disaster it has created in the past and now in the present know time is running out for them. But those younger than them, need to stop being passive and silent. Passivity and being docile may be the curse of younger generations.
This is a Time Capsule report for me. It clearly tells me that there is one person in the Church who complains the most about going backwards who is the one doing precisely that:
Professor Seifert: Catholic Church in ‘Terrible Danger of Complete Collapse in Many Countries’ Unless Cardinals and Bishops Speak Up (Edward Pentin)
Catholic philosopher Josef Seifert has said he sees a “terrible danger of a complete collapse of the Catholic Church in many countries” unless cardinals speak up about a “tremendous crisis” within the Church, one he says is possibly the greatest she has ever faced.
In comments following the publication of an open letter he wrote April 30 calling on all cardinals, bishops and Church leaders to stand up for the truth of Catholic teaching in the face of prevailing relativism and situational ethics, Seifert observed what he described as the cardinals’ “frightening silence” on this unique crisis that runs “from the top of the Church down.”
The respected Austrian professor, who in 2017 founded the John Paul II Academy for Human Life and the Family as a counterweight to the once respected Pontifical Academy for Life now led by dissenting Archbishop Vincenzo Paglia, said it was his love for the truth and the Church, and the fact that key elements of Pope Francis’ teaching run contrary to Pope St. John Paul II, that prompted him to put pen to paper.
He recalled that in his 1993 encyclical on the moral teaching of the Church, Veritatis Splendor, John Paul II “elucidated magnificently” the truth of recognizing “non-negotiable wrong acts,” defending it against relativist ethical positions which “seek loopholes everywhere” in order to try to justify “adultery, sodomy, contraception, idolatry, apostasy, denial of purgatory, hell and last judgement.”
Tracing such dissent to criticisms of Pope Paul VI’s 1968 encyclical Humanae Vitae which underscored the use of artificial contraception as intrinsically evil, Professor Seifert stressed that the Church’s teaching on the subject has deep roots…
And the good professor’s letter: Professor Seifert’s open letter to cardinals and bishops of the Catholic Church.
21 comments:
It it properly styled “Pope Saint Paul IV,” “Pope Saint John Paul II” and “Pope Saint Pius X”?
The “New Springtime”is just around the corner (example of Einstein’s definition of insanity).
As a kid and young man in the 1970s I knew a good old school Irish priest very well (btw when he retired and returned to Ireland in the early 80s I was given one of the MANY watches he received as gifts at his retirement party as Parish Priest at Our Lady of......where he served over 20 years...anyway:)
Old Fr......I can remember saying in the late 70s two, I believe, obvious perhaps, but important things:
1. It will take the Church at least 200 to 300 years to recover from THE Council; or more to the ways THE Council was being implemented..
2. If history is still being written several centuries from now, that history will probably judge Paul VI d 1978 very kindly, as a man who was Pope during an era - an era best described as VERY difficult times for the Church; and a near impossible era for any man to be Pope.
Paul,
I disagree - Paul VI lacked spine and basic people skills
TJM,
I don't completely disagree with you.
Paul VI lacking spine - probably at times but not all the times, in my opinion.
Regarding: lacking people skills..
That's a difficult one.
Take some other Churchman - Archbishop Lefebvre; did he lack people skills?
In my very humble opinion here (concerning a great man) I agree with the author of a recent article about Archbishop Lefebvrae - one of his main problems and main cause of difficulties..was that it took quite some years, probably too many years, for him to fully realise that many of the leading Churchmen he dealt with approximately 1970 to 1990 often simply did NOT have a level of integrity and honesty, that he charitably assumed they did possess.
So could that be described not just as naivety but a lack of people skills?
Worse than Paul VI, what will PF say about his "devout" Catholic buddy, Biden? What will the supine USCCB say?
"Devout Catholic and noted child sniffer Joe Biden issued a proclamation Wednesday marking “Gay Pride” month that defends child sex change operations and treatments, supports pornography targeting children in school libraries and claims that his heart is “heavy with grief for the loved ones we have lost to anti-LGBTQI+ violence” without noting the Christians murdered in a school shooting by a transgender person last March.
Biden said he is using the full force of government to ensure sex change mutilation operations for children (what Biden euphemistically calls “medically necessary health care”) and to force women and girls to compete against men pretending to be women in sports competitions, “…I have taken unprecedented steps to support LGBTQI+ youth…The Department of Justice is combating laws that target transgender children, and the Departments of Education and Health and Human Services have proposed new rules to protect LGBTQI+ Americans from discrimination in health care, at school, and in sports.”
Paul, your positive assessment of Pope Saint Paul VI has informed me that you are a man of tremendous bravery.
:-)
One person after another here has dismissed Pope Saint Paul VI as an horrific Pope.
Said folks have insisted that, beginning with the Roman Liturgy, Pope Saint Paul VI inflicted horrific, monumental, spiritual damage upon Holy Mother Church.
Pope Saint Paul VI's numerous detractors who comment here will disagree with you in unhesitating fashion. But they will go easy upon you. That is, they will not subject you to nasty replies.
Now, if I had posted your positive assessment of "horrific" Pope Saint Paul VI, oh, my...the usual nasty manner in which said folks treat me would be on display. Your positive assessment of Pope Saint Paul VI is anathema to said folks.
:-)
Again, Pope Saint Paul VI's numerous detractors here will go easy upon you.
Nevertheless, to have pronounced in positive fashion upon the, speaking spiritually, supposed most destructive Pope in history (even more so than "Bergoglio"), has signaled that you are a man of great bravery.
:-)
Paul, I agree with you. But as concerns God's Holy People:
Pope Saint Paul VI has been judged — he need not wait — in kindly fashion.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
Paul VI emptied churches with his disastrous liturgical “reforms.” Mark Thomas continues to annoy with his pathetic attempts to rehabilitate a failed papacy. When PF croaks his defense of even a worse papacy will be comedy gold!
"Professor Seifert: Catholic Church in ‘Terrible Danger of Complete Collapse in Many Countries’..."
If we accept his very bleak assessments of the Church, then beginning some 60 years ago, Father Ratzinger/Pope Benedict XVI had beaten Professor Seifert to the punch.
During the early 1960s, Father Ratzinger had insisted that the Church, at least the Latin Church, was mired in total liturgical, and spiritual collapse...and was in need of radical reformation.
===========================================================================
In 2005 A.D., following a near 27-year reign by Pope Saint John Paul II, then-Cardinal Ratzinger offered the following bleak assessment of the Church:
"How much filth there is in the Church, and even among those who, in the priesthood, ought to belong entirely to him! How much pride, how much self-complacency! What little respect we pay to the Sacrament of Reconciliation..."
"Lord, your Church often seems like a boat about to sink, a boat taking in water on every side. In your field we see more weeds than wheat. The soiled garments and face of your Church throw us into confusion."
=======================================================================================
In 2009 A.D., Pope Benedict XVI declared: "In our days, when in vast areas of the world the faith is in danger of dying out like a flame..."
Years...decades...prior to Professor Seifert's declaration in question, Father Ratzinger had insisted that the Church had collapsed spiritually, as well as liturgically...confusion within the Church abounded...and, for centuries, that had been the case.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
Mark,
Thx for your kind words but I am not a man of tremendous bravery.
I have serious doubts about whether I could have ever repeatedly done what my Grandfather did in WW1 and uncles in WW2 - jump out of trenches etc despite shelling and machine gun fire and win medals for "conspicuous gallantry" "greatest coolness; greatest devotion to duty" etc..
I'll make a confession, Mark.
By my mid 30s I had a BAD drug problem. I beat it at 40.
My knees would tremble having to stand clean DRUG free in front of about 20 bored drunks and junkies - and talk for 5 minutes...
My youngest brother travelled to Japan etc to when younger for kick boxing et al tournaments....but had to be treated for depression later and had a suicide attempt in part over financial stress of supporting large family - plus some "genetic vulnerability or predisposition for depression"...and don't get me started on another brother who is a successful doctor, who can only get caught in bad traffic to crave scotch and or a joint..
As to Professor Seifert’s bleak assessment in question:
Just prior to Vatican II, Monsignor Joseph Clifford Fenton, the renowned, conservative, theologian had declared:
"To me the condition here in Rome is an evidence of the existence of the Church as a miracle of the social order.
"In general it is being run by men who have no concern whatsoever for the purity or the integrity of the Catholic doctrine."
"Since the death of [Pope] St. Pius X the Church has been directed by weak and liberal popes, who have flooded the hierarchy with unworthy and stupid men."
Pax.
Mark Thomas
Surface appearances can be deceptive, Mark.
After 20 years of weight lifting, and national Parks hiking - when I can; with another female relative's drug problem; and a teenage pregnancy in our family etc (while I will NEVER return to hard drugs .).my "harm reduction" approach to this year has been at least a bottle of red wine a night; and back on a pack of cigarettes a day...but hey? Whose perfect?
Paul,
I appreciate your thoughtful response. I lived through those days. I was born during Pius XII’s reign. Unlike Pius XII or John XXIII, Paul VI appeared socially awkward even though he was in many positions of authority prior to becoming pope. I met him as a boy when he was a cardinal. I think John XXIII would have controlled some of the negative forces coming out of the Council better through his personal charm and a canniness he learned through his years as a diplomat. The liturgical reforms would have been consistent with Sacrosanctum Concilium and he would never have allowed Bugnini near the reforms. It was a great tragedy for the Church when he died when he did and it was equally tragic when Pope Benedict abdicated. Paul VI was not up to the job and PF is downright pernicious.
Paul, given the bleak assessments of Pope Saint Paul VI that one commenter after another has offered here throughout the years:
Why do you believe "that history will probably judge Paul VI d 1978 very kindly?"
I agree with you.
But what do you say to the following charges that have been leveled against Pope Saint Paul VI?
-- In destructive fashion, he had proceeded far beyond the liturgical reform that the Conciliar Fathers had expected.
-- He had implemented the liturgical reform in incompetent, destructive fashion.
-- He was a poor, weak spiritual leader.
-- He persecuted those, such as Archbishop Lefebvre/SSPX, who had defended, as well promoted, Holy Tradition.
Paul, in regard to Pope Saint Paul VI:
If the bleak assessments of his Pontificate that I have encountered here, and among "traditionalists" elsewhere, are valid...
...then it is beyond comprehension "that history will probably judge Paul VI d 1978 very kindly."
Anyway, I disagree with said assessments of Pope Saint Paul VI. In turn, I agree with your comment in question.
Thank you.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
No, Mark. Slow down and read
more carefully.
An old Irish Catholic priest said that about P6 to me and others, in the late 70s.
At the time I agreed. Now I am not so sure.
I think it likely that P6 like many career Vatican diplomats and administrators probably did not have a full understanding just how VERY important any reform of the Mass and the liturgy would be...his focus was not really there..
I also think that Paul VI would be almost as disgusted as Pius XII and even Pius X if they were alive today to witness Good Devout Catholic Biden's antics; and the present situation in the Church in Germany and with many Modern Jesuits etc...
Paul said..."At the time I agreed. Now I am not so sure."
Okay.
Nevertheless, I am amazed that given my understanding of your negative assessments of Vatican II, as well as the liturgical reform, you are open to the notion that history will speak well of Pope Saint Paul VI.
Please correct me if I have misrepresented the following:
Paul, your assessments of Vatican II (over which Pope Saint Paul VI had presided almost exclusively), as well as Pope Saint Paul VI's liturgical reforms, are negative. Correct?
Thank you.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
Paul,
You are dealing with a man “boy” disconnected from reason and reality. He ignores/disrespects Father McDonald who like most intelligent Catholics have legitimate, deep concerns about the failure of the Vatican II “reforms.” Only an unmitigated fool or someone who hates the Church would hold otherwise.
Paul said..."I think it likely that P6 like many career Vatican diplomats and administrators probably did not have a full understanding just how VERY important any reform of the Mass and the liturgy would be..."
Paul, that is incorrect.
Beginning years prior to Vatican II, Monsignor Montini was very well versed in liturgical matters.
In fact, Pope Venerable Pius XII's Commission for Liturgical Reform kept outsiders in the dark, except for Monsignor Montini, as well as Father Bea. The future Pope Saint Paul VI received privileged information in that regard. In turn, he provided said information to Pope Venerable Pius XII.
For years prior to his having directed the liturgical reform as Pope, Monsignor Montini enjoyed an insider's view of the liturgical reform...as well as the liturgical reform's impact upon the Church.
The SSPX noted that as early as the 1930's, Monsignor Montini's knowledge of, and involvement in, liturgical reform had been evident:
"In 1931 and 1932, he (Monsignor Montini) simplified the Holy Week liturgy to encourage the “active participation” of the students of the Italian Catholic University Federation (FUCI)."
"He adhered to the liturgical movement of Dom Beauduin and chose for his confessor and master Fr. Giulio Bevilacqua (1881-1965) one of his propagators, whom he later made member of the Consilium and one of the major artisans of the reforms shortly before his death."
"During the Council, on November 11, 1962, the future Paul VI’s only contribution was to approve the draft on the liturgy…"
Pax.
Mark Thomas
Paul said..."I'll make a confession, Mark. By my mid 30s I had a BAD drug problem. I beat it at 40. My knees would tremble having to stand clean DRUG free in front of about 20 bored drunks and junkies - and talk for 5 minutes..."
Wow!
Paul, Deo gratias that you defeated your drug problem.
I am happy, and thankful, that you have overcome tremendous adversity in your life.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
Father McDonald said..."Pope Paul VI, enfeebled by depression and old age, was not a strong leader...But at least he held the line on truth."
That Pope Saint Paul VI had "held the line on truth" is a given.
Thanks to the promise of Jesus Christ, we are assured that the Bishop of Rome will preserve in immaculate fashion the Catholic Religion.
That is why we can stand with Pope Benedict XVI in granting our "unqualified reverence and obedience" even prior to the election of a Pope.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
Mark Thomas,
When are you going to take Father Fox (super holies apply to him) on his offer, or are you just going to run and hide? It's time for you to put up or shut up!
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