BUT IF IT SMELLS, ACTS AND LOOKS LIKE A PIG, IT IS A PIG!
‘We Don’t Have an Agenda,’ Synod on Synodality Organizer Says in New EWTN Interview
Cardinal Mario Grech says that while he believes ‘a synodal Church is a more spiritual Church,’ it is important to remember that the Church ‘is not a democracy.’
Pope Francis has become rather defensive about the Synod on Synod. The chattering group, less than 1% of worldwide Catholics, like it because they like to bloviate and put forth what they believe to be true which more often than not is the heresy of Gnosticism.
But yesterday, when His Holiness met with the Italian bishops and the chattering group of laity on the synod, Pope Francis stated that as he came into the hall, someone shouted to him in Spanish and an Argentinian vulgar phrase that translates into Italian as very vulgar too, that his synod is a mess.
The word mess is a clean version of the word used.
The pope became defensive and said that yes a mess is being created but Pope Francis blamed that on the Holy Spirit who makes messes, plays with the faith of people and makes them anxious, perplexed and thinking that the Church is a joke. But, the Holy Father, defensively went on, that the Holy Spirit eventually repents and makes things orderly. (This is my loose translation of what the Holy Father said.)
Then Cardinal Grech one of the big chattering honchos of the Synod on the Synod, gave an interview to EWTN, yes, he actually spoke to EWTN, and acknowledged that the synod on synod has gone off the rails, but not to worry, because the Church is hierarchical and not a democracy and all the time, money and effort to listen to the gnostic voices of the less than 1% of Catholics who are of the high chattering class will amount to nothing.
The synod is a spirituality not a democracy, wehre people talk incessantly to one another but not to God.
We’ve been told by the pope, Grech and others that the synod on the synod is not a parliamentary procedure where the Pope’s pre-planned agenda will come to fruition through the principles of democracy and voting. But if it looks, smells, acts and sounds like a parliament, it is!
17 comments:
The poor Cardinal; he is simply living in the fantasy inside his head. "Where people talk not to each other but to God" and "the synod is spirituality"...how on earth can he know either of these two things? He spouts words that have no discernable connection to reality.
Rename it: The Flop on Flops! Vatican Disaster II Sequel.
Pope Francis blamed that on the Holy Spirit who makes messes, plays with the faith of people and makes them anxious, perplexed and thinking that the Church is a joke. But, the Holy Father, defensively went on, that the Holy Spirit eventually repents and makes things orderly.
Really?? Has anyone told the Holy Spirit this?
“Catechism of the Catholic Church” (CCC)
CCC 739 Because the Holy Spirit is the anointing of Christ, it is Christ who, as the head of the Body, pours out the Spirit among his members to nourish, heal, and organize them in their mutual functions, to give them life, send them to bear witness, and associate them to his self-offering to the Father and to his intercession for the whole world. Through the Church’s sacraments, Christ communicates his Holy and sanctifying Spirit to the members of his Body. (This will be the topic of Part Two of the Catechism.)
back to “www.catholic-catechism.com”
ByzRus,
He’s unhinged from reality like his cheerleader-in-chief who posts here!
Gents, I think that was the Italian humor of our host. It’s an acquired taste. Like Campari.
Father McDonald said..."Pope Francis has become rather defensive about the Synod on Synod."
"But yesterday, when His Holiness met with the Italian bishops and the chattering group of laity on the synod, Pope Francis stated that as he came into the hall, someone shouted to him in Spanish and an Argentinian vulgar phrase that translates into Italian as very vulgar too, that his synod is a mess.
"The pope became defensive and said that yes a mess is being created but Pope Francis blamed that on the Holy Spirit who makes messes, plays with the faith of people and makes them anxious, perplexed and thinking that the Church is a joke.
"But, the Holy Father, defensively went on, that the Holy Spirit eventually repents and makes things orderly. (This is my loose translation of what the Holy Father said.)"
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Father McDonald, the Catholic News Service report in regard to the above differs greatly from your "loose translation."
VATICAN CITY (CNS) -- Pope Francis said that as he entered the Vatican audience hall for the meeting, someone -- using an Argentinian phrase that is not very polite, nor is its translation in Italian, he said -- told him that the whole synod process is creating a mess.
"Think about the apostles on the morning of Pentecost," the pope said. If the synod is "a blank," he said to laughter, "Pentecost morning was even worse.
"It was worse. Total disorder. And who provoked that mess? The Holy Spirit. He's good at creating disorder to move people. But the same Spirit also provoked harmony."
"Don't be afraid when there is disorder provoked by the Spirit," Pope Francis said. One need fear "only when it is provoked by our selfishness or the spirit of evil."
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In 2020 A.D., Pope Francis had made the same point in regard to the Holy Ghost
Pope Francis said:
"It is the Holy Spirit who institutionalizes the church, in an alternative, complementary way, because the Holy Spirit provokes disorder through the charisms, but then out of that disorder creates harmony.
"A tension between disorder and harmony: this is the church that must come out of the crisis. We have to learn to live in a church that exists in the tension between harmony and disorder provoked by the Holy Spirit.
"If you ask me which book of theology can best help you understand this, it would be the Acts of the Apostles.
"There you will see how the Holy Spirit deinstitutionalizes what is no longer of use, and institutionalizes the future of the church."
Pax.
Mark Thomas
I'll take the Campari, of which I am very fond, and will make a Negroni while pondering the laughing matter(s) which, evidently, surround us these days.
Mark, I am well aware of how Pope Francis has shifted the blame to the Holy Spirit to justify the mess that the Holy Father has made. The Holy Spirit is not responsible for any mess in the Church or in the fall of humanity through Adam and Eve. The Holy Spirit brings order out of our sinful messes.
Unless the Holy Father has declared his rambling opinion that the Holy Spirit creates messes to be an infallible new teaching, I would invite you to show me where it is in the Catechism of the Church or in Sacred Scripture where the Church teaches that the Holy Spirit is responsible for the mess of Adam and Eve and all messes since then associated with Original Sin.
Father McDonald, you may have had the disadvantage of having translated from an inaccurate report.
Based upon the reports that I have read, Pope Francis was not defensive.
-- Catholic News Service, for example, reported that Pope Francis generated laughter as he relayed to the bishops that somebody had shouted to him that the Synod has created a mess.
-- Pope Francis did not "blame" anything upon the Holy Ghost.
-- Pope Francis exhorted his audience to trust the Holy Ghost.
Again, Father McDonald, you may have translated from an inaccurate news story.
Father McDonald, thank you.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
MT, I am using the translation you provide. PF said the Holy Spirit provokes disorder to then bring order. Please quote from me from the defined Deposit of Faith that the Holy Spirit provokes disorder to the heal it. Disorder can be defined as sin or chaos who a mess. I will wait to hear from you.
Real leaders do not blame others for their failings! What happened to the “buck stops here?”
Father McDonald said..."PF said the Holy Spirit provokes disorder to then bring order. Please quote from me from the defined Deposit of Faith that the Holy Spirit provokes disorder to the heal it. I will wait to hear from you."
Sure...happy to reply.
Just to note, from the dawn of his Pontificate to date, Pope Francis has often noted the following:
Example: May 19, 2013 A.D., SOLEMNITY OF PENTECOST, HOMILY OF POPE FRANCIS, His Holiness declared:
"A second thought: the Holy Spirit would appear to create disorder in the Church, since he brings the diversity of charisms and gifts; yet all this, by his working, is a great source of wealth, for the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of unity, which does not mean uniformity, but which leads everything back to harmony. In the Church, it is the Holy Spirit who creates harmony."
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Fast-forward to Pentecost 2022 A.D: Pope Francis:
"And finally, oddly, the Holy Spirit is the author of division, of ruckus, of a certain disorder.
"Think of the morning of Pentecost: he is the author… he creates division of languages and attitudes… it was a ruckus, that!"
"Yet at the same time, he is the author of harmony."
"He divides with the variety of charisms, but it is a false division, because true division is part of harmony. He creates division with charisms and he creates harmony with all this division. This is the richness of the Church."
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Father McDonald, it is via Sacred Scripture that Pope Francis has supported his declaration in question.
Thank you.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
MT,
LOL and the moon is made of green cheese!
Perhaps instead of quoting the HF, we can turn to sacred scripture, a component of the Deposit of Faith, as requested by Fr. AJM,
https://bible.usccb.org/bible/acts/2
2:4) And they were all filled with the holy Spirit and began to speak in different tongues,* as the Spirit enabled them to proclaim.d
* [2:4] To speak in different tongues: ecstatic prayer in praise of God, interpreted in Acts 2:6, 11 as speaking in foreign languages, symbolizing the worldwide mission of the church.
If we read verses 1-47, it seems to me the mission of the church was being framed and enabled by the Holy Spirit, not disorder/chaos/mess.
In the above PF quotations, the HF repeatedly references unity, however, I'm not wholly following his thoughts. The fledgling Church was organizing itself, gaining members and being enabled to go to the 4 corners of the world to evangelize. Where was disunity? The first schism wouldn't occur until the years 140-155.
The actual posting is a perplexing word salad of terms that don't really make sense relative to the faith that I learned. "the Holy Spirit who makes messes, plays with the faith of people and makes them anxious, perplexed and thinking that the Church is a joke." "But, the Holy Father, defensively went on, that the Holy Spirit eventually repents and makes things orderly." So the Holy Spirit "makes messes", "plays with the faith of the people", "makes them anxious" then, the Holy Spirit "repents"? Perhaps it's just me, but sounds heretical and like temptation analogous to that of the devil only to have a happy ending when repentance occurs. To boot, the chief "defender of the faith" blames the triune God!
ByzRus,
Nicely done but the bootlicker will not understand
TJM,
Fr. AJM made a simple request, demonstrate where from the Deposit of Faith, those statements could be justified. Why that didn't happen, I don't know. The endless and wearying Ministry of Propaganda quotations clearly isn't able to get us there.
What does holy Scripture state regarding the consequences of certain (various?) Sins against the Holy Spirit?
Hmmm?
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