Sometimes I wonder if Pope Francis and Cardinal Roche are using a non-issue of Traditionalist ideologues to distract from the real threat of ideology created by the pope’s synodality.
The greater threat to the Church is not a small minority of harsh traditionalists who prefer how the Church was prior to Vatican II (although they don’t prefer pre-Vatican II’s authoritarianism which would have excommunicated them for their antipathy toward the pope) but rather progressive ideologies that prevail everywhere in the Church from the Vatican to the smallest parish anywhere in the world.
By listening to uninformed, miseducated and schismatic leftest progressives through the synodal way, we see the radicalization of the Magisterium to buy into much of the nonsense they promote beginning with the ditching of Catholic morality in favor of LGBTQ+++ amorality and ideology as well as an overturning of Humanae Vitae, the Church’s anthropological approach to the Sacraments and the changing of doctrine to accommodate the culture.
If radical traditionalists would have simply made a quiet truce with the heterodoxy coming from every corner of the Church to include the Vatican and minded their own business while enjoying the permissions Pope Benedict XVI afforded them, then we would be in a different place today.
My own experience of the TLM since 2007 were in two parishes where I was the pastor and allowed both forms, but on a limited basis, St. Joseph in Macon and St. Anne in Richmond Hill. There was no real divisiveness in these groups to the point that they refused to attend the normative Mass of the Roman Rite, the modern one. They did not question Vatican II but might have been uncomfortable with its implementation by certain ideologues.
They weren’t trying to suppress Vatican II or its Mass. They minded their own business.
At St. Joseph, those who prefer the modern vernacular Mass loved the TLM too for special occasions and to get their “fix” on a high liturgy with lots of solemnity and transcendence. But the truth be told, they preferred the vernacular for its intelligibility and immediately through hearing.
Rigidity is thinking my way is the right way and to hell with all others. We all suffer from this as does Pope Francis, since we are all human.
But even a rigid person with psychological neurosis can have a live and let live attitude. That’s called charity.
11 comments:
The Pope does not discriminate among Traditionalists, but rather stereotypes and punishes them as a group. That’s the difference.
Begging your pardon, Reverend and dear Father McDonald, but "living and and let live" is seldom an act of charity; rather, it is most often the condoning of bad behavior and permitting evil to flourish within your midst.
Father McDonald, I appreciate several comments that you have offered via this thread.
Beyond that, I appreciate that as God's holy priest, you have acted as a liturgical peacemaker in the midst of the liturgical war that has long-raged within the Latin Church.
-- You have offered the TLM without having sided with right-wing extremists who have attempted to hijack said Mass.
-- You have offered the Holy Mass of Pope Saint Paul VI without having sided with left-wing extremists who have attempted to hijack said Mass.
Father McDonald, thank you for all of the above.
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Father McDonald, unfortunately, I disagree with the idea that we are dealing with "a very small, but vocal, group of right wing traditionalists" in regard to the topic at had.
Speaking relatively, is true that only a microscopic amount of Catholics favor the TLM. (I favor the TLM.)
But within that group, I believe that the evidence is overwhelming that, unfortunately, more than a few right-wing extremists have long populated the TLM Movement...and that opposition to Vatican II/the liturgical reform has long marked said folks.
To begin, in early 1964 A.D., Father Gommar DePauw had founded the Catholic Traditionalist Movement. Said movement had promoted unrelenting opposition to the Council, as well as liturgical reform.
Years later, Archbishop Lefebvre had emerged as a key player within the TLM Movement.
He was unrelenting in his attacks upon the Council, as well as liturgical reform/holy Mass of Pope Saint Paul VI.
Archbishop Lefebvre continues to influence the TLM Movement. In widespread fashion, within the TLM Movement, Archbishop Lefebvre is hailed as a Saint...a hero.
What then-Cardinal Ratzinger had noted in 1988 A.D. applies today:
"We must reflect on this fact: that a large number of Catholics, far beyond the narrow circle of the Fraternity of Lefebvre, see this man as a guide, in some sense, or at least as a useful ally."
Archbishop Lefebvre: "The rite of the new mass is a bastard rite, the sacraments are bastard sacraments."
Archbishop Lefebvre's influence in question is just the tip of the iceberg that could be cited to demonstrate the considerable presence of right-wing extremism that exists within the TLM Movement.
Beyond that, there is New Catholic (Rorate Caeli), Peter Kwasniewski, Taylor Marshall, 1Peter5, The Remnant, Mundabor...countless radtrad blogs/twitter...the right-wing nonsense that Father Zulhsdorf has promoted...on and on.
Anyway, Father McDonald, although we disagree in regard to the topic at hand, I wish you peace.
Thank you for having opposed left-wing extremists who have spewed nonsense in regard to the Synod.
Father McDonald, thank you for the opportunity to post my comments to your great blog.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
Somebody...anybody...
Please provide a few links to "traditional" Catholic blogs/twitter which, in line with Holy Mother Church's teachings, defends, and promotes, Vatican II, as well as the Holy Mass of Pope Saint Paul VI.
Thank you.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
Mark, there are small off the wall groups. But the log in your eye is Germany. It has many of the nation’s bishops, cardinals etc on board including powerful laity. POWER is the key word and a power struggle in an open warfare is afoot. This is the problem for the entire Church because Pope Francis version of the synod has initiated a worldwide catastrophe for the entire Church, not vocal and assertive small groups who prefer the Church in its pre Vatican II INCARNATION:
https://www.pillarcatholic.com/p/after-germanys-synodal-way-a-power
The following demonstrates the increasing radtrad nature of the TLM Movement.
Once upon a time, trads had all but regarded Pope Venerable Pius XII as the "last true Pope." Among trads, it had been unthinkable to denounce Pope Pius XII/his reforms.
Today, among trads, the rejection of Pope Venerable Pius XII's liturgical reforms are all the rage. More and more, trads have insisted that it is imperative to restore the Roman Liturgy to its pre-Pian state.
Peter Kwasniewski, for example, denounced Pope Venerable Pius XII as having, via supposed illegitimate liturgical reforms, inflicted "violence" upon the Roman Liturgy. Last month during a lecture in South Carolina, Peter Kwasniewski had upped his attacks against Pope Venerable Pius XII.
https://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2023/05/why-should-pope-francis-and-fbi-care.html
Video 2:
At the 2:05 mark, Peter Kwasniewski initiated his attack upon Pope Venerable Pius XII.
Mr. Kwasniewski declared that "the Tridentine Rites must be restored in its fullness which means prior to the severe distortions introduced by Pius XII in the 1950s..."
At the 2:55 mark, Peter Kwasniewski had renewed his denunciation of Pope Venerable Pius XII.
Peter Kwasniewski declared that during the immediate post-World War II period, "Pius XII first allowed the axe-wielding academics to lay violent hands on the Roman Missal."
The ever-increasing radtrad-ism of the TLM Movement is apparent.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
Father McDonald, I appreciate your reply.
I understand the nonsense that has long existed within Germany. Pope Francis has made gallant attempts to lead Germans to the way of orthodoxy.
Father McDonald, I appreciate your comments today, as well as prior to today, in regard to the problems that many Germans have long inflicted upon Holy Mother Church in Germany.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
Here is a beautiful, uplifting, gentle scene from the early years of Pope Francis' Pontificate:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e64S4oTMuZs&t=2s
Step 1: create the boogie-man with little to no evidence
step 2: slay the boogie man
Are there folks who attend the TLM who are radical? Absolutely. Just as there are radicals who attend the Mass of Paul VI (though different in there focus). Are there large numbers in either group - no; radicals are always in the minority. There is no evidence that the growing numbers of parishioners were "extremists" unless that term is so elastic as to encompass anyone who criticizes the Church.
PF has done nothing to rein the German Church in - only in MT’s fantasyland
Mark,
Today is Mother's Day...
The Church is in a sense our mother; or could be regarded as a mother; a mother who all true Catholics love..
SSPX Catholics love the Church; but over recent decades the Church in many parts of its body (especially Germany; but, also, in Belgium too; and to a lesser degree, is sick or unwell in parts of Italy, Canada and the USA et al as well)...
SSPX people, SSPX Catholics, most truly in the vast majority of cases, love the Church...
They still love the Church and pray for the Church as they would still love and pray for their own mother, even if she had cancer, dementia, or even occasionally started experiencing episodes of schizophrenia or kleptomania..etc..
Likewise, SSPX Catholics have never ceased praying for the pope; for over 50 years; whether the Pope was a Hamlet like liberal like P6 or a JP2, with his flaws but great strengths too - to a holy wise scholar like B16 through to Francis..
SSPX Catholics are not leaving the Church, like the vast majority of traditional Catholics will never leave the Church; even when the leader of the Church on earth (not the head of the Church which is Christ) but the leader of the Church on earth, the bishop of Rome, patriarch of the West etc can be compared, at times, to the captain of a barque or ship who is at times incompetent, inconsistent, or acts like he is drunk...or a father, who in an unfatherly way has favourites and other children he treats badly...and is perhaps through age, character defects or character flaws best prayed for but definitely NOT treated as some Oracle of God...or a really Great Pope like past great popes ..
For God's sake Mark! Why not read some history! Why not make a start with... hmmm ? -at least read a text like Eamon Duffy's "Saints and Sinners" - a really great beginners history of the Papacy, by a fine Catholic scholar.
To finish Mark, for you to use the word "gallant" to describe Francis's words and deeds re the situation with the recent years heresy and apostasy in Germany is not just 110 per cent inaccurate but bizarre! Truly, Mark!
PS I don't know why but the following thought came into my head reading your recent contributions here - how about we both consult Professor Google and see who can find first who was the last pope to have a court (curial) jester? A Vatican jester? A court jester/clown of the Curia to cheer people up during grim, difficult times...okay? 😉
A friend said to me today, would it not be more fun if Cardinal Roach swapped the sartorial splendor of a Vatican prelate and dressed in Rome like a mediaeval court jester ..
What do you think, Mark?
Or is Roach, sorry Roche, doing just fine as he is, dressed as he is, in bringing mirth to millions?
Paul,
In terms of Mark Thomas - there’s no there, there. Very sad. He needs our prayers
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