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Thursday, November 24, 2022

SINCE VATICAN II LIBERAL CATHOLICISM ROOTED IN A RADICAL LIBERATION THEOLOGY AND THE GERMAN CHURCH AS BEEN PROBLEMATIC FOR THE CHURCH, A SOURCE OF SCHISM



 Pope Saint John Paul II and Pope Emeritus I were instrumental in putting those to radical aspects of post Vatican II Post Catholicism back into the dungeon where they must be under lock, key and guards. 

But like the monsters of the upside down world of Stranger Things, released by those in charge, Pope Francis released the monsters (Vecnas) of liberation theology, the radical version, pachamama and the German liberal, heterodox Church through His Holiness’ rantings about the synodal listening, welcoming and heterodox Church.

Another pope will have to be like “Eleven” and put these monsters back in their place.

Who will that Eleven be? 


Confused about my Stranger Things metaphors? Look it up in Wikipedia! 

23 comments:

Jerome Merwick said...

I hope and pray that I am wrong, but I don't think our next pope is going to be the one. Quite the contrary, I believe he will be worse than the current chair holder.

I don't think we're going to get a better pope until God gives us a spanking. And it's coming.

TJM said...

Our best hope is for a pope who was not an adult during Vatican Disaster II

Bob said...

I think our next pope will be a compromise, as many across the world are tired of the culture wars, the world Catholic scene far broader than most Westerners are anywhere close to admitting exists. Latin Mass more a French and American thing along with a nice, tidy, and small British base, all are a very small minority in their countries.

But, likely it will be someone more tolerant of Latin Mass, while quite "modern progress" tolerant in others, with doctrinal shifts more to the "modern progress" side. Which in a long view, the "modern progress" fans will see themselves as eventual winner, as in between worldly pressure from outside, and doctrinal shifts inside, will end up even with Latin Mass fans absorbing the doctrinal shifts, and them simply having the older rite as most distinguishing characteristic.

So long as the main difference between the camps is only rites and social politics and rules, the "modern progress" fans will win. Only with a spiritual difference will more traditional fans win, and that does not exist at this time, them generally just as worldly as the "modern progress" club, only prettier rites and more thou-shalt-nots distinguishing them at all.

The only real difference per parish would be near zero "modern progress" folk seeking a spiritual life of intimate union with God, versus a small handful in an already minority traditional parish. Meanwhile, the more traditional see themselves as more spiritual simply because they maintain the old rite and rules, when they are anything but more spiritual.

ByzRus said...

Unfortunately for the Roman Church, I suspect containment won't have a chance of occurring until several more generations have passed. I tend to agree with Jerome Merwick, I suspect the worst is yet to come....the replacement who will push the envelope farther than was possible for Francis. When like type and variety is put on the throne, and as the old and rigid traditionalists start to disappear, just imagine who will replace them. Also, with the shrinking presbyterate, the elimination of the "royal priesthood" other factors cited on this blog, will there still be quality candidates available for the episcopacy and beyond? Will the episcopacy of the future be comprised of radicals and social misfits then to be elected pope under the guise of being "inspired by the holy spirit"? I think any and all are very possible.

mark said...

Father McDonald said..."pachamam."

When did Our Lady of the Amazon become Pachamama?

The lady who presided over the Vatican Gardens ceremony identified the statue to Pope Francis as that of "Our Lady of the Amazon."

REPAM helped to organize the October 2019 A.D. Vatican Gardens Event.

On December 15, 2018 A.D, 10 months prior to the Vatican Gardens Event, REPAM posted the following video to Youtube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUjZ18gRMco

It is undeniable that the video identified the so-called "Pachamama" statue as that of the Blessed Virgin Mary.

=========================================================================================

The video features the following quotations in Spanish (the English translations follow):

-- :02 mark

“Salve llena de gracia, el Señor es contigo”.......Hail full of grace, the Lord is with you

=======================================================================================

-- :48 mark

“No temas María, porque has hallado gracia delante de Dios”.......Do not be afraid Mary, for you have found grace before God.

=======================================================================================

-- :55 mark

“y concebirás en tu seno y darás a luz un hijo a quien pondrás de nombre Jesús (Lucas 1, 26, 11)”.......And you will conceive in your womb and give birth to a son, to whom you will give the name Jesus (Lk 1, 26, 11)

Pax.

Mark Thomas

TJM said...

Bob,

Good points but the Mass in Latin has a strong following in England as well. As a matter of fact, the Cardinal Archbishop of Westminster has blown off Traditiones Crudelis (Custodes) and said he has not encountered these bad Traddies that this ultra vires document talks about. I have been to the Brompton and Oxford Oratories and their liturgies are ethereal and filled with young people which must sadden PF and his Roche

TJM said...

ByzRus,

Unless PF or his successor admits women to the priesthood as a desperation counter measure, the younger clergy are far more traditional. In my area all three pastors are in their thirties and celebrate the TLM. I also think the demographic sinkhole is expanding rapidly and in 10-15 years a large number of US parishes will be closed. In Chicago they have closed over 140 parishes in recent years , not because there are not plenty of Catholics there, but a majority simply no longer go to Mass and support the Church. A textbook example is St. Adalbert's, a magnificent church modeled after St. Paul’s Outside the Walls in Rome, which is the heart of Pilsen, a large, vibrant Hispanic area. Of course it does not help when you have a dour, hypocritical, lefty like Cupich in charge who makes life hard for Latin Mass attending Catholics while tolerating abominations like St. Sabina’s.

rcg said...

The only thing preventing a galactic schism is the walls of the Church herself. There have been very effective coup attempts in the past that lasted for several popes, if not as many years. The current rebels remain within the Church, de facto, through sentimental weakness of the leadership and financial leverage of the rebels. Jerome, Bob, TJM, and ByzRus are correct in that there will be no viable faithful candidates for pope for several generations due to the funneling effect used to select leadership. The Calendar Effect offered by many as a remedy for the secularist leadership in the hierarchy works in both directions. If the seminaries are over weighted with candidates unschooled in Catholicism as God’s factory on earth and committed only to supernatural rebuttal for political and social goals then the slow hegemony of filling each vacant bishopric with fellow travelers allows time to remove whatever orthodox or even faithful bishops and cardinals remain.

When the crazies won’t leave and we won’t kick them out there is only one outcome.

TJM said...

Here is a pretty good summary of the Liturgical "reform:"

"Meanwhile, the reform helped itself to the souls of millions of victims in order to establish its new paradise of active participation. Millions left the Church, confused, bewildered, scandalized, bored. Millions more who stayed have lost their faith in the Real Presence, in the Sacrifice of Calvary, in the unique dignity of the priest. Many of these warm bodies fell away in recent years when Mass was treated as an unessential service. The demographic sinkhole widens and deepens.[1] (In their vast enthusiasm for increased “active participation,” CHW need to be reminded that the most basic form of participation is to show up for Mass—something fewer and fewer in the modern West choose to do, except at booming Latin Mass parishes... at least until they are shut down by bishops who hate tradition more than apostasy.)

The liturgical reform has been discredited by its own internal contradictions, its absolute impracticability, its failure to deliver even basic goods like sound faith and reverence. We may still be waiting for our “Berlin Wall” moment, but it will come. Indeed, it has already come in the vitality of the traditionalist movement and the impossibility of writing convincing propaganda against it."

Bob said...

TJM, I DID mention the strong (but still very small minority) of traditionalists in England. A packed church, or even 50, in a country is still a very small minority of the whole.

And when the majorify of that minority is not much different from non-traditionalists past a few extra prayers recited daily and a bit stronger moral code, it will not make all that much difference, neither now nor into eternity.

The only ones to make a real difference of either rite will be those of the extremely small minority who seek to be true disciples who treat God with the love which God deserves. Consider how a marriage or childrearing fares minus always attentive devotion. And God generally gets far less loving attention than that, or even against jobs or hobbies or even broadcast entertainments. From BOTH sides.

mark said...

Father McDonald said..."pachamam."

When did Our Lady of the Amazon become Pachamama?

The lady who presided over the Vatican Gardens ceremony identified the statue to Pope Francis as that of "Our Lady of the Amazon."

REPAM helped to organize the October 2019 A.D. Vatican Gardens Event. On December 15, 2018 A.D, 10 months prior to the Vatican Gardens Event, REPAM posted the following video to Youtube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUjZ18gRMco

The video identified the so-called "Pachamama" statue as that of the Blessed Virgin Mary.

The statue is featured at the :22 mark.

=========================================================================================

The video features the following quotations in Spanish (the English translations follow):

-- :02 mark

“Salve llena de gracia, el Señor es contigo”.......Hail full of grace, the Lord is with you

=======================================================================================

-- :48 mark

“No temas María, porque has hallado gracia delante de Dios”.......Do not be afraid Mary, for you have found grace before God.

=======================================================================================

-- :55 mark

“y concebirás en tu seno y darás a luz un hijo a quien pondrás de nombre Jesús (Lucas 1, 26, 11)”.......And you will conceive in your womb and give birth to a son, to whom you will give the name Jesus (Lk 1, 26, 11)

Pax.

Mark Thomas

Fr. Allan J. McDonald said...

Mark, that info is not true and is outdated. The Vatican corrected. The pagan image of pachamama has not been declared Marian or Our Lady of the Amazon. It remains to this day the pagan goddess with its pagan prayers.

rcg said...

Diane Morgan has hacked MT’s account.

TJM said...

Bob,

I have Catholic relatives in England who believe the TLM attendees will be the last ones standing there. My other essential point is the Archbishop of Westminster batted away the phony basis for TC

mark said...

Father, that information is not outdated.

Beyond that, Pope Francis declared that there was not any connection to paganism in regard to the Vatican Gardens Event.

The lady, our sister in Jesus Christ, who presided over the beautiful, peaceful ceremony, presented the statue to Pope Francis. The lady declared that the statue represented "Our Lady of the Amazon."

The above was captured on audio.

=============================================================================

Rome Reports interviewed Father Roberto Rojas, a Missionary Oblate of Mary Immaculate, who helped to organize the Vatican Gardens Event.

Here is the brief video interview in question:

https://www.romereports.com/en/2019/10/11/indigenous-missionary-defines-controversial-figure-of-pregnant-our-lady-of-the-amazon/

At the :55 second mark, and during following several seconds, Father Rojas, Missionary Oblate of Mary Immaculate, declared:

"This figure is the Virgin Mary of the Amazon, Our Lady of the Amazon. It's a devotion that started in the indigenous communities. They carved in wood an image of a Blessed Mother, who is pregnant. She is the Virgin Mary, and we have called her Our Lady of the Amazon."

Pax.

Mark Thomas

mark said...

Father McDonald said..."Mark, that info is not true and is outdated. The Vatican corrected. The pagan image of pachamama has not been declared Marian or Our Lady of the Amazon. It remains to this day the pagan goddess with its pagan prayers."

Father McDonald, that information is not outdated.

As to the Vatican's "correction."

Yes, Father, the Vatican issued a correction. The Vatican corrected those who had claimed that the statue was pagan...that of the goddess Pachamama.

The official Vatican "correction," in line with Pope Francis' declaration in regard to the statues/ceremony, declared that the statue in question was not pagan.

Anyway.

The bottom line is that the Vicar of Christ declared that the statue/ceremony was/is not pagan. That is the official Vatican "correction."

Pope Francis is as "official" as official gets. :-)

Pax.

Mark Thomas

mark said...

Father McDonald, I realize that you and I have monumental differences of opinions in regard to the Vicar of Christ.

But thank you for having allowed me over the years to have expressed my opinions in regard to His Holiness, Pope Francis.

I am thankful for you, and your great blog.

Pax.

Mark Thomas

TJM said...

PF is as bad as it gets

Jerome Merwick said...

Mark Thomas,

I want to be polite about this, I really do, but your sheer gullibility and naivete to believe every Vatican press release at face value is both laughable and pathetic.

https://www.catholicculture.org/commentary/pachamama-or-virgin-which-does-synod-revere/

https://www.joshuatcharles.com/blog/2020/4/24/pachamama-is-a-demon-testimony-from-missionaries

https://chi-usa.com/cardinal-burke-catholics-have-our-lady-of-guadalupe-as-mother-not-pachamama/


Pacman Mama, whose name I won't even write or say (I renounce, reject and rebuke you) IS A DEMON. The blessed Mother is the greatest of God's creation and no culture, no matter how primitive, has ever represented Our Lady NAKED. That ugly piece of garbage is demonic and needs to be not just thrown out, but burned and every Catholic ground that has welcomed it needs to be exorcised.

"Official" because "Pope" Francis said so? Seriously?

Jerome Merwick said...

Mark Thomas,

When are you going to stop being a bootlick for the worst pope in history?

TJM said...

Jerome Merwick,

Even the Borgia popes were orthodox, so PF ranks below them

Jerome Merwick said...

And that is exactly why poor, unqualified me rates him as the worst pope in history. We've had lousy popes before, but I can't recall ANY of them who dared to tamper with the faith in such a broad, careless fashion as this one. Most of the bad popes were bad because of their personal sins or weaknesses or negligence. PF came in like a man with a sledgehammer left to run the china shop.

I have great respect for the office of the pope. I still maintain that we must continue to pray for this pope. But we cannot close our eyes to what he is doing, cooperate with his bad initiatives and remain silent in the face of his destruction. Anyone who DOES respect and revere the papacy should be horrified by what Bergoglio has done with it.

The only thing that makes any sense to me is that God is punishing us (and just BEGINNING to at that) with this pope. It's almost as if He looked at the "mainstream" of the Church and said, "O.K.. You want to be like the Protestants? You want to liberalize everything? You want to "normalize" sin? You don't care about corruption? You don't have the guts to speak out when great wrongs are done against our Church? You want a Church that changes with the world? Fine. I'll give you the pope of your dreams. Then maybe, after you've had enough, you'll wake up and realize your dream is a nightmare."

Of course, that dialogue is pure speculation on my part. But it makes sense.

TJM said...

Jerome,

I think your summary should be mandatory reading at the various synods!