I usually don’t promote Archbishop Viganò and his various rants and raves as I believe there could be a serious pathology lurking underneath many of his rantings and ravings. But even if His Excellency is compromised in some way or the other, that doesn’t mean he can’t make a good evaluation of what has happened to the Liturgy as a result not of Vatican II but of the elite committee established by Pope Paul VI to contrive a new Mass.
Thus Consilium acted independent of Vatican II’s bishops and designed something they more than likely would not have approved.
What is needed is a thorough revisiting of Vatican II’s Sacrosanctum Concilium with the aim of doing nothing more and nothing less than what the College of Bishops in Council asked to be done as it concerns the Mass and other Sacramental celebrations.
Thus Archbishop Vigano makes a great evaluation of the state of the Mass and the need to go back to the source of Vatican II and do what it said to do, which was the bishops of the Church in union with the pope. My comments in red to the interview republished by Lifesite News)
PL: What do you think is the main flaw of the new Mass?
Abp. Viganò: I believe that there are three critical issues that must be mentioned, attributable to the single problem of understanding the Catholic liturgy.
The first defect of the new rite is that it was drawn up with the cynical coldness of a bureaucrat, while the authentic liturgy is a harmonious corpus that has developed organically over the centuries, adapting its immune system – so to speak – in order to fight the viruses of every age. Believing that one is able to “restore original simplicity” to an adult body, forcing it to return to childhood, is an unnatural operation, revealing the willful intention of those who traveled this path with the sole intent of making the Church more vulnerable to the assaults of the enemy. And whoever plotted this fraud knew very well that he could only convey his errors by eliminating that Mass which alone condemns them and disavows them at every gesture, every ceremony, and every word. There is no good intention in whoever gave birth to this liturgical monstrum, designed to act as a sort of tent or canvas under which to give free rein to the most aberrant and sacrilegious deviations. (Look at the state of belief in the Church and even the 5% to 20% who still attend Mass don’t really believe all that the Catholic Church believes, teaches and proclaims to be revealed by God, not the least of which is what the Church believe about the Most Holy Eucharist and the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. And think about the schismatic cardinals and bishops manipulating the synodal way especially in Germany who are on the verge of an all-out schism!)
The second flaw is represented by the deception with which the Novus Ordowas presented and imposed on the Church, alleging that it was a simple translation of the ancient rite. In Sacrosanctum Concilium, the council fathers authorized the translation into the vernacular of the readings and didactic parts of the Mass, prescribing that the Roman Canon be left intact, said in Latin, and spoken in a whisper. What has been prepared for us by the Consilium ad exsequendam is something else, a rite that seems to have been slavishly copied from Cranmer’s “Book of Common Prayer” of 1549 and which corresponds perfectly to the ideological approach of its writers. (This is very important. I can remember as a 16 year old around the year 1969 that parishioners at St. Joseph Church in Augusta, my parish, were saying that the Mass and the Church were becoming Protestant. I did not understand at the time what they meant. But yes, the revision of the Mass was meant to be an ecumenical gesture to untie the Church to Protestants. I can remember visiting a Protestant who told me in the late 1970’s that the Catholic Church was finally catching up with Luther and Calvin in making the Mass a meal and using a table to celebrate “The Lord’s Supper).
The third flaw is the deliberate substitution of the main object of worship – the Holy Trinity – who has been replaced by the assembly gathered together with the celebrant, which is now the fulcrum around which the whole liturgy revolves, the point of reference for the sacred action. The vision of the priest as “president of the assembly,” the loss of sacredness in order to encourage improvisation, the replacement of the sacrificial altar with a convivial table – these are all consequences of a doctrinal error that denies the essence of the Mass, in which Christ’s sacrifice on the cross is offered in a bloodless form to the Father. (In the late 1960’s the banal and trite song “Kumbaya” was quite popular as was holding hands during Mass. In fact liturgical theologians downplayed the Mass as a Sacrifice, adoring the consecrating Host and Precious Blood as not what Jesus wanted for this “Sign” of His Body and Blood. The role of the priest is diminished all in the name of eliminating clericalism. Vatican II said absolutely nothing about this development pushed by radical theologians who wanted to design not only a different Mass but a different Church.)
26 comments:
Any one with a modicum of honesty knows the Novus Ordo has been a complete and utter flop. Numbers don't lie. I respect priests like you who acknowledge the problem and are trying to restore dignity and order to the Mass. The Popes and Bishops following Vatican II will be held accountable by God. And we don't need loons posting here that everything is swell when it isn't
"Look at the state of belief in the Church and even the 5% to 20% who still attend Mass don’t really believe all that the Catholic Church believes, teaches and proclaims to be revealed by God, not the least of which is what the Church believe about the Most Holy Eucharist and the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. And think about the schismatic cardinals and bishops manipulating the synodal way especially in Germany who are on the verge of an all-out schism!"
Thank you Father, for making my point about the inevitable implosion of the Novus Ordo Establishment.
While I disagree with your convenient labeling of the good Archbishop as "crazy", he (and you) make it pretty plain that all of these "vibrant faith communities" don't amount to much, especially when all those "vibrant" believers are only a fraction of baptized Catholics and the majority of those attending believe very little of what the Church teaches.
Vigano crazy? Crazy like a fox.
Sophia here: May God continue to protect and strengthen this honest and fiercely courageous (not crazy) protector of Holy Mother Church, the good shepherd, Archbishop Vigano! And Thank you so much for sharing this very important information with your readers, Father. There are probably a goodly number who do not follow Church news nearly as closely as the ones of us who post here do.
Archbishop Vigano can at times be "over the top." Calling him crazy, too, is over the top.
Archbishop Viganò has spoken in horrific, Satanic fashion in regard to the Holy Mass of Pope Saint Paul VI.
Archbishop Viganò has rejected Holy Mother Church's teachings that have pertained to the Holy Mass of Pope Saint Paul VI.
In 2018 A.D., Holy Mother Church declared that Archbishop Viganò had fallen into "open and scandalous rebellion, which is inflicting a very painful wound on the Bride of Christ."
Archbishop Viganò's Satanic "open and scandalous rebellion" in question has continued via the following horrific, evil declarations that he has spewed in regard to the Holy Mass of Pope Saint Paul VI:
-- Is "defective"
-- Is a "fraud"
-- Was created to convey "errors"
-- Was created with "no good intention"
-- Was designed to "give free rein to the most aberrant and sacrilegious deviations."
-- "seems to have been slavishly copied from Cranmer’s “Book of Common Prayer” of 1549..."
-- Created with "the deliberate substitution of the main object of worship – the Holy Trinity – who has been replaced by the assembly gathered together with the celebrant, which is now the fulcrum around which the whole liturgy revolves..."
-- "...these are all consequences of a doctrinal error that denies the essence of the Mass..."
-- Is the result of "radical theologians who wanted to design not only a different Mass but a different Church."
======================================================================================
In regard to Archbishop Viganò's above Satanic attack against the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass:
The Holy Catholic Church has guaranteed that Holy Mass of Pope Saint Paul VI is in line with Holy Tradition.
In 2007 A.D., Pope Benedict XVI declared: "There is no contradiction between the two editions of the Roman Missal. In the history of the liturgy there is growth and progress, but no rupture."
That echoes that which Emeritus Benedict XVI had declared in his book Feast of Faith, page 87:
"...the so-called Missal of Paul VI is nothing other than a renewed form of the same Missal to which Pius X, Urban VIII, Pius V and their predecessors have contributed, right from the Church’s earliest history."
Archbishop Viganò has espoused nonsense — even worse, Satanic lies — in regard to his (Archbishop Viganò's) evil attack against the Holy Mass of Pope Saint Paul VI.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
Archbishop Viganò, is a liturgical warmonger.
He has demonstrated the unfortunate failure of holy Pope Benedict XVI's liturgical peace plan.
But the failure of said liturgical peace plan is not Pope Benedict XVI's fault. The fault rests upon such radicals (as well as liberal TLM-haters) as Archbishop Viganò.
In defiance of Pope Benedict XVI's liturgical peace plan, Archbishop Viganò attacked the Holy Mass of Pope Saint Paul VI.
In defiance of Pope Benedict XVI's liturgical peace plan, Archbishop Viganò has pitted the TLM against the Holy Mass of Pope Saint Paul VI.
Contrary to the teaching of Pope Benedict XVI's liturgical peace plan, Archbishop Viganò claimed that the Holy Mass of Pope Saint Paul VI represents a rupture within the Roman liturgical tradition.
Archbishop Viganò has shattered one plank after another of Pope Benedict XVI's liturgical peace plan.
Contrary to Pope Benedict XVI's liturgical peace plan, Archbishop Viganò has waged war against the the peaceful coexistence of the TLM, and Holy Mass of Pope Saint Paul VI.
Archbishop Viganò has rejected the following:
Pope Benedict XVI, 2007 A.D:
"There is no contradiction between the two editions of the Roman Missal. In the history of the liturgy there is growth and progress, but no rupture.
"Needless to say, in order to experience full communion, the priests of the communities adhering to the former usage cannot, as a matter of principle, exclude celebrating according to the new books.
"The total exclusion of the new rite would not in fact be consistent with the recognition of its value and holiness."
Archbishop Viganò: Liturgical Warmonger.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
Ah, Captain Sanctimony speaks!
While I would never question his "expertise" on all things Satanic, we have plenty of testimony from members and people who were close to members of the Consilium, that little committee that was not called for by Vatican II, led by a disgraced Freemason (talk about Satanic!) that there were indeed malevolent undercurrents in the concoction and contrivance of the liturgy we have been forced to settle for since 1970.
With regards to Pope Benedict's affirmation about "no contradiction"...well, papal infallibility has its limits and infallible statements only exist within certain confines--I don't think that statement fits the bill any more than Pope John XXIII's fatal error of reading the Third Secret of Fatima only to reply, "This does not concern us..."only to go on to force his Council which, if Padre Pio and Gabriel Amorth told us the truth, helped FULFILL the secret.
Papalotry. The perfect heresy. If you dare to question, you're Satanic. Kind of reminds me of a certain politician who likes to send the FBI after anyone who disagrees with him--if you dare to question him, you are an enemy of the state.
Thanks for the ever-predictable entertainment!
"Kind of reminds me of a certain politician who likes to send the FBI after anyone who disagrees with him--if you dare to question him, you are an enemy of the state."
You would be referring to the former president, I see:
“Trump turned DOJ into his personal law firm”: Senate probes prosecutor’s claim of Trump corruption" Salon 13 September 2022
"Trump’s DOJ Pushed for Prosecution of Political Enemies, Book Claims" Rolling Stone 8 September 2022
"Trump Claims He’s a Victim of Tactics He Once Deployed - Donald J. Trump’s efforts to politicize the law enforcement system have now become his shield as he tries to deflect accusations of wrongdoing." NYTimes 10 August 2022
"The President Humiliates His Own Department of Justice - Donald Trump uses the agency to attack his political enemies." The Atlantic 13 January 2019.
Etc, Etc, Etc...
Trumpolatry - the perfect political heresy.
Jerome Merwick,
As I mentioned in another thread, MT probably has a statue of PF in his home to offer homage and worship. His collection of non sequiturs can be entertaining
Nice try Father. Not taking the bait.
Idolatry is idolatry and facts are facts, not bait.
When a crime is committed - removing documents, many of them classified, is a crime - it is 100% appropriate to send the FBI after that person.
Calling it a misuse of the FBI is a slander against that agency AND a violation of honesty.
"The result of a consistent substitution of lies for factual truth is not that the lie is now accepted a truth, and the truth be defamed as a lie, but that the sense by which we take our bearings in the real world - and the category of truth versus falsehood is among the mental means to this end - is being destroyed." - Hannah Arendt
When you accept, defend, and disseminate Trump's Big Lie, you are a part of the destruction.
Our holy Popes, Saint Paul VI, as well as John Paul II, as examples, insisted that the Consilium acted in line with the Council.
They also declared that the reformed Mass is in line with Sacrosanctum Concilium.
Example: Pope Saint John Paul II:
"The reform of the rites and the liturgical books was undertaken immediately after the promulgation of the Constitution Sacrosanctum Concilium and was brought to an effective conclusion in a few years thanks to the considerable and self less work of a large number of experts and bishops from all parts of the world."
"This work was undertaken in accordance with the conciliar principles of fidelity to tradition and openness to legitimate development, and so it is possible to say that the reform of the Liturgy is strictly traditional and in accordance with the ancient usage of the holy Fathers”"
"These are all reasons for holding fast to the teaching of the Constitution Sacrosanctum Concilium and to the reforms which it has made possible: “the liturgical renewal is the most visible fruit of the whole work of the Council."
Pax.
Mark Thomas
Just as I would never dispute the local "expert" on Satanism, nor would I dispute our honorable expert on truth. Those who have it cornered are indisputable.
"Holocaust Deniers"
"Climate Change Deniers"
"Election Deniers"
"Election Fraud Deniers"
Oh, I could go on forever, but I am unfit for the rarified heights of my moral superiors.
Jerome Merwick,
And that same “expert” will defend Hillary’s misuse of classified info while not acknowledging the President has the authority to declassify information. He is a Democrat operative masquerading as a priest. He . still can’t come to grips with the fact that the Novus Ordo is a failed Rite. He and Mark Thomas have a lot in common. And expert they are not
Perhaps someone should remind Fr. K that more persons than just the former president are being harassed by the FBI. Quite a few more.
This is another example of Democrat evil which I am sure Father K supports as a good party member:
https://nypost.com/2022/09/05/chicago-hospital-teams-with-schools-to-promote-sex-toys-to-kids
Jerome, you accuse others of being your superiors. That may well be the case...
But then you make a statement and assume no one would dare challenge it because... you are obviously the expert and no one can know more than you.
Then you clap your hands over your ears and refuse to hear ANY evidence that might eviscerated your position because... you cannot possibly be wrong.
And then you accuse others of, well, you can see the pattern here.
Thomas, who else is being persecuted by Biden? Names and evidence, not emotion, please.
Meanwhile the pilfered papers of Mar-al-Lago, elephant that they are, are being overlooked.
Father, I'm not taking your bait.
You, of all people, with your pendulum swings between juvenile mockery and high-handed sophistication, have little room to analytically pick me apart. Then again, go ahead, because I really don't care.
You have your political beliefs and I have mine. Unlike TJM, I do not presume to read your mind. I wish you'd show me the same courtesy. You can present all the "certain facts" that your sources provide and I can provide mine. In the end, neither of us will persuade each other of anything. The fact that I am not interested in any of your stuff hardly qualifies as stuffing my ears.
The fact is, I am bored with this entire conversation and, all due respect, I am even MORE bored with you. But I am glad that you chose to keep beating your drum in my ear, as it reminds me that it was a mistake to even get involved in this "conversation" in the first place.
Jerome - what "certain facts" have you presented regarding "malevolent undercurrents" in the Concilium or "...a certain politician who likes to send the FBI after anyone who disagrees with him..."? What "certain facts" did you present.
None. Zip. Nada.
You don't like educated people who say things you don't want to hear - I get that. But your attempts to belittle education and the educated ring hollow in a Church that has, for centuries, been at the forefront of producing the educated elite and thinkers with sophistication.
The facts is, Trump illegally took documents, many of them highly classified. The fact is, he refused to return them after repeated requests from the Archives. The fact is, when SOME of the documents were returned Trump said that there were no more. The fact is, there were more.
If two people with different views having a conversation is a "mistake," then God help us all. And if you don't like reading posts that don't agree with your viewpoint then, as the song says, "Just walk on by."
Yeah Father, that's it! Great insight!
Jerome - Yes, it is. And the facts regarding Trump are great, too.
Fr K is impervious to facts: President Trump started no new hot wars, was pro-life and instrumental in appointing judges to reverse Roe v Wade, created the best economic conditions in decades for the working class, and fought crazy theories like CRT and gender ideology. On the other hand, the senile grifter in the White House disgracefully abandoned Americans in Afghanistan while leaving billions in weaponry for the Taliban, is embroiling the US in the Ukraine, is feverishly supporting infanticide, CRT, gender ideology for school children, and destroying the working class through his “green” policies which unleashed the worst inflation in 40 years. “Smart power” at work
TJM,,
Let him emit all the hot air he wishes. He's clueless.
No one here cares anyway, except his sanctimonious sycophant.
Father Kavanaugh said..."Jerome - what "certain facts" have you presented regarding "malevolent undercurrents" in the Concilium..."
Father Kavanaugh, I read your comments but have ignored for months Jerome's posts. Therefore, I was unaware of his comment in question in regard to the Concilium.
Our holy Popes have praised the Concilium's work to reform the Liturgy.
Anyway...in regard to supposed "malevolent undercurrents" in the Concilium: From Judas to to date, "malevolent undercurrents" have existed within the Church.
One need only to look to proven liar, Archbishop Viganò, who has broken Communion with our Holy Father...
...Archbishop Viganò, who, according to the Apostolic See, is "in open and scandalous rebellion, which is inflicting a very painful wound on the Bride of Christ..."
Anyway...
The Mass can only be one thing: Holy/orthodox. Popes Saint Paul VI, Blessed John Paul I, Saint John Paul II, Benedict XVI, and Francis, offered/offer the reformed Mass.
The bottom line in regard to the supposed "malevolent undercurrents" in the Concilium:
Pope Saint John Paul II:
"The reform of the rites and the liturgical books was undertaken immediately after the promulgation of the Constitution Sacrosanctum Concilium and was brought to an effective conclusion in a few years thanks to the considerable and self less work of a large number of experts and bishops from all parts of the world."
"This work was undertaken in accordance with the conciliar principles of fidelity to tradition and openness to legitimate development, and so it is possible to say that the reform of the Liturgy is strictly traditional and in accordance with the ancient usage of the holy Fathers."
Pope Benedict XVI:
"There is no contradiction between the two editions of the Roman Missal. In the history of the liturgy there is growth and progress, but no rupture."
Then-Cardinal Ratzinger. Feast of Faith, page 87:
"...the so-called Missal of Paul VI is nothing other than a renewed form of the same Missal to which Pius X, Urban VIII, Pius V and their predecessors have contributed, right from the Church’s earliest history."
=====================================================================
The Holy Catholic Church has spoken:
The Mass of Pope Saint Paul VI is holy...is orthodox...is in line with Vatican II...is in line with Holy Tradition.
Archbishop Viganò has spoken: Through him has bellowed the voice of Satan.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
Father McDonald could you please share one untrue statement by ArchBishop Vigano over these last few years that make him crazy?
As crazy as the Vatican II heretical anti-church maybe. The problem is that’s true and then everyone begins to doubt their vows. We’ll at least those not working on the side of Satan and his Demons to destroy Our Lord’s church. The Gates of Hell will not prevail, but Boy they are taking us right to those gates.
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