Thursday, March 15, 2018

DAMAGE CONTROL AND APPARENTLY IT IS ALL ABOUT POPE FRANCIS' LACK OF INTELLECTUAL PROWESS! HOW PECULIAR, NO?

This is from this morning's Vatican Insider of LaStampa's Italian secular newspaper, but quite pro-Bergolio. How does this article strike you? I find it peculiar and seems to denigrate Pope Francis in an unwitting way. No?

A Pope’s profile according to 

Ratzinger: neither a great scholar 

nor a great diplomat, but a man of God

The words spoken by the then Archbishop of Munich
during a trip to Ecuador: one must see someone
“who prays, who believes, who incarnates holiness”
Benedict XVI

Pubblicato il 15/03/2018
Ultima modifica il 15/03/2018 alle ore 12:19
VATICAN CITY
“The Pope must not be a great scholar nor a great diplomat, but simply a man of God. And the “first quality” to be a Pope is no different from that needed to be a priest: it is not “intellectual superiority” or “organizational skills” but “a trace of holiness”.  

In the days inflamed by the debate over Benedict XVI’ letter in which he denied the “foolish prejudice” that has him as a “theorist”, while his successor on the other side “lacks” theological formation, it is worth recovering some forgotten pearls of Joseph Ratzinger’s magisterium, which give us back his authentic thought, so distant from certain clichés - to which he himself has been reduced, both by certain progressive fringes and by certain so-called “ratzingerians”.  

The re-reading of some pages of the XII volume of Ratzinger’s Opera Omnia, published by the Libreria Editrice Vaticana in 2013, entitled “Announcers of the Word and servants of your joy” is enlightening. It is a speech given in September 1978 by the then Cardinal Archbishop of Munich and Freising at a meeting with some priests in Ecuador, where the future Pope was present as papal legate for the National Marian Congress of Guayaquil. Right there in Ecuador, Ratzinger would have learned the news of Pope Luciani’s death. 

The cardinal recalled, referring to the conclave that had taken place in August and that had led to the extremely rapid designation of John Paul I, ”Before the election of the Pope, it was remarkable that anyone you would talk to whether, religious or lay, believers or non-believers, Catholics or non-Catholics, they all emphasized the same thing: choose above all, a man of God”.  

The Pope - continued Ratzinger, tracing a profile based on the simple tradition of the Church - must not be a genius, must not be a great diplomat or a great scholar, but must be a man of God: a man that shows he prays, who believes; a man who embodies holiness”.  

What is valid for the Pope - future Benedict XVI continued, re-proposing the fundamental elements of tradition - applies fundamentally to every priestThe first quality expected of him is not organizational skills or intellectual superiority, but a trace of holiness”.  

Ratzinger observed that “in the long run this ministry can only be carried out if it is deeply rooted in God, only if one lives in a constant relationship with the Lord. For this reason, prayer, even contemplative prayer, is important”.  

In a previous and just as significant passage of that same speech, the then Archbishop of Munich proposed some reflections destined to reflect on his own biography and on his being “Pope Emeritus”. Speaking about priesthood, he said, “Nor can it be a temporary job: the greatness of priestly work lies in the fact that it offers, at any age, a specific opportunity. The priest will never be an “old piece”... Every age has its own specific importance: the fervor of young people is just as important as the maturity of the elderly. Precisely the wisdom, calm and suffering of the latter are a real contribution, which shows how the work of the priest is always meaningful and able to engage man to the end”.  

26 comments:

Mark Thomas said...

During his presentation of the 11-volume book series, Monsignor Dario Vigano (Vatican Secretariat for Communication), read aloud the entire letter that Cardinal Ratzinger had penned.

It had been made clear to journalists that Cardinal Ratzinger had not read the 11 volumes.

Pax.

Mark Thomas

TJM said...

MT,

When are you going to give us the list of the "radical" changes Pius XII made to the texts and rubrics of the Mass?

ByzRC said...

TJM -

As we all gather and wave goodbye to the Vatican's credibility and, the papacy more generally, I seriously doubt you will get the answer we're all waiting for.

Henry said...

To what sort of mind does it not appear that the current papacy is the worst of the 266 so far? Surely, none of the most flagrant ones--e.g. the Borgia papacies--came close to this one regarding damage to the Faith and to the faithful.

Mark Thomas said...

TJM, I listed at least 14 radical liturgical reforms that Pope Venerable Pius XII initiated. You didn't read that list?

Is it your stance that the radical liturgical reforms that Monsignor Bugnini (and friends) concocted (in 1948 A.D., Pope Venerable Pius XII appointed Monsignor Bugnini Secretary to the Commission for Liturgical Reform), then approved by Pope Venerable Pius XII, are traditional?
===============================================================

TJM, should Father McDonald permit you to change the focus of this thread, then I will be happy to reproduce here the list of just a few of the many radical liturgical reforms that Pope Venerable Pius XII initiated.

Pax.

Mark Thomas

TJM said...

MT,

Quite dodging the question. I read that piffle you posted and NONE of what you posted describes how Pius XII changed the texts or rubrics of the Mass itself. I am waiting patiently.

ByzRC said...

MY,

That's a dodge. Certainly, changing topics has happened before. Feel free to enlighten us.

Mark Thomas said...

TJM, I said that Pope Venerable Pius XII initiated radical liturgical reforms. Courtesy the work of "traditional" Catholics who documented said radical reforms, I listed at least 14 liturgical reforms that Pope Venerable Pius XII initiated.

On February 26, 2018 A.D., on Father McDonald's blog, I said:

"Pope Blessed Paul VI continued the radical reform process of Church life that Pope Venerable Pius XII initiated. As with Pope Venerable Pius XII, Pope Blessed Paul VI's reforms were enacted in good faith to build up the Body of Christ. Whether said reforms achieved that goal is up to debate. I believe that Pope Blessed Paul VI (as well as Pope Venerable Pius XII) lived a holy life on earth. I will accept without question Holy Mother Church's decision to raise, should that happen, Pope Blessed Paul VI to the altars."

My next post on that thread featured 14 radical liturgical reforms that, after having been concocted by Monsignor Bugnini (and friends), Pope Venerable Pius XII initiated.

I did not even list such radical liturgical reforms as Pope Venerable Pius XII's radical reform of the traditional Eucharistic Fast.

TJM, do you characterize as "traditional" or "radical" Pope Venerable Pius XII's reform of the traditional Eucharistic Fast?

Additional examples:

-- Pope Venerable Pius XII insisted that emphasis on the saints must be reduced.

-- Liturgical texts or practices that could offend heretics, schismatics or Jews should be modified.

-- Liturgical expressions of reverence for the Blessed Sacrament may be “simplified” or reduced.

-- Reduction of the priest’s role.

-- Lay participation must ideally be vocal.

-- Prayers and ceremonies may be changed to accommodate modern “needs.”

-- Vernacular may be an integral part of the liturgy.

TJM, do you believe that the above reforms are traditional or radical?

TJM, do you characterize as "traditional" or "radical" Pope Venerable Pius XII's authorization of vernacular liturgies?

Thank you.

Pax.

Mark Thomas

TJM said...

Mark Thomas.

Nothing that you cited above changes one word of the Mass or the rubrics of the Mass. So where are the radical reforms? Epic fail. Unless you can do better than cite the above, you have lost, lost, lost. It's "B" as in "B" and "Sis" as in "S." If you went over to Father Z's website and spouted this nonsense you'd be laughed out

Mark Thomas said...

TJM, I stated (actually, one "traditionalist" after another has stated) that Pope Venerable Pius XII enacted radical liturgical reforms that Monsignor Bugnini (and friends) had concocted. I listed several radical reforms that Pope Venerable Pius XII enacted.

Example: He reformed radically the traditional Eucharistic Fast.

Example: He insisted that emphasis on the saints must be reduced.

Example: He reformed in radical fashion Holy Week.

Example: He introduced the vernacular into the Liturgy.

Example: He authorized the modification of liturgical texts or practices that could offend heretics, schismatics, or Jews.
=================================================================

TJM, Pope Venerable Pius XII instituted the above radical reforms.

However, you have insisted that the radical reforms in question are not radical reforms.

Fine. That is your opinion.

Okay...during Pope Venerable Pius XII's reign, Monsignor Bugnini (and friends) did not concoct radical liturgical reforms. In turn, Pope Venerable Pius XII did not enact said reforms.

The reforms in question are traditional. Right? Right.

Yeah. Sure. :-)

Pax.

Mark Thomas

Mark Thomas said...

TJM said..."If you went over to Father Z's website and spouted this nonsense you'd be laughed out "

Is that the web site on which the priest begs people to send him money...where the priest travels on endless vacations...where the priest posts photos of the fine food and alcohol that, thanks to people who send him money, he consumes...

...has "wish lists" on which he begs people to send him thousands of dollars worth of gifts?

I should worry about being laughed at on that web site? Really?

Pax.

Mark Thomas

Mark Thomas said...

TJM said..."If you went over to Father Z's website and spouted this nonsense you'd be laughed out"

From Father John Zuhlsdorf, in regard to Pope Venerable Pius XII's liturgical reform:

http://wdtprs.com/blog/2015/04/ask-father-can-the-pre-1955-holy-week-rites-be-used/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+wdtprs%2FDhFa+(Fr.+Z%27s+Blog+-+What+Does+The+Prayer+Really+Say%3F)

Father Zuhlsdorf:

"Some say, and with good reason, that the pre-1955 rites were richer and reflected a more organic development of liturgy than the edited and revised version imposed by Pius XII.

"Others say that the imposition of the 1955 rites, which were plugged into the 1962 typical edition of the Missale Romanum, were a trial run for what the Consilium would do to the Roman Rite in the name of the Council."
======================================================================

Several commenters on Father Zuhlsdorf's blog chimed in...they noted that Pope Venerable Pius XII's liturgical reforms were extensive, and novel.

They noted that Pope Venerable Pius XII had paved the way for the radical reform of the Roman Rite.

Here is such a comment:

teevor says: 7 April 2015 at 10:10 AM


"In fact, the 1955 revisions were extensive, and were regarded at the time an initial step in a wholesale reform which eventually did occur in 1969. The 1955 reforms are in many ways much closer to the 1969 missal than they were to the pre-1955 rites.

"Keep in mind that the Dreaded Bugnini was heavily involved in the composition of the 1955 reform."
==============================================================

TJM, who is laughing now?

Pax.

Mark Thomas

TJM said...

MT,

You are being contumacious and silly at this point. Let's keep this simple so even you can understand it:

1) What texts of the Mass did Pius XII alter?
2) What rubrics of the Mass did he alter?

Answer those two simple questions and leave aside the glittering generalities you point to which have nothing to do with the celebration of the Mass

Mark Thomas said...

TJM, it is your contention that the liturgical reforms concocted by Monsignor Bugnini (and friends), then approved by Pope Venerable Pius XII, were/are not radical in nature.

The reforms in question are traditional. That is your stance. Correct?

-- Pope Venerable Pius XII altered radically the traditional Eucharistic Fast. But you insist otherwise. Correct?

TJM, was Pope Venerable Pius XII's reform of the Eucharist Fast traditional or radical?

-- TJM was Pope Venerable Pius XII's introduction of vernaculars into the Roman Liturgy traditional or radical in nature?

-- Did Pope Venerable Pius XII act in traditional or radical fashion when he insisted upon the modification of liturgical texts or practices that could offend supposedly heretics, schismatics, or Jews?

TJM, I thank you in advance for your answers to the above questions.

Pax.

Mark Thomas

Mark Thomas said...

TJM, here is a simple question for you.

Do you characterize as radical or traditional Pope Venerable Pius XII's Holy Week liturgical reform?

Thank you.

Pax.

Mark Thomas

TJM said...

MT,

Answer my two questions first since you were the one who made the ridiculous assertion that Pius XII made radical reforms to the Mass. I know you can't, so you keep dodging and weaving. The only change I can recall to the Mass in the Missale Romanum prior to Vatican Diaster II during my lifetime (which goes back to Pius XII) is the insertion of the name of St. Joseph into the Roman Canon by Saint John XXIII. So admit you went off the rails in one of your feverish attempts to smear Pius XII as a radical liturgical reformer. Maybe our esteemed moderator will bring this to an end with his views as to whether Pius XII radically reformed the Mass. Perhaps you will believe him but if you have the Missale Romanum you could confirm this for yourself

Mark Thomas said...

TJM said..."Anonymous TJM said..."MT, Answer my two questions first since you were the one who made the ridiculous assertion that Pius XII made radical reforms to the Mass

"Maybe our esteemed moderator will bring this to an end with his views as to whether Pius XII radically reformed the Mass."

We don't need Father McDonald to put an end to this...

What we need is the following:

We need you to stop misrepresenting me. In the other thread, my initial comment was:

"Pope Blessed Paul VI continued the radical reform process of Church life that Pope Venerable Pius XII initiated."

That is why in an additional post to that thread, I, rather than have limited myself to a discussion about Pope Venerable Pius XII's radical liturgical reforms, I returned to my original comment when I noted:

-- "However, Pope Venerable Pius XII launched the Church into the Ecumenical Movement. He insisted that the Holy Ghost had inspired the establishment of the Ecumenical Movement.

-- Pope Venerable Pius XII opened the door to married Latin Church priests as he permitted married Protestant clergymen to be ordained as Catholic priests.

-- Pope Venerable Pius XII "directed the world’s religious superiors to begin the modernization of their congregations. He specifically urged simplification of habits, laying aside of outmoded customs, and the ongoing education of members."

I noted also that Pope Venerable Pius XII enacted radical liturgical reforms that Monsignor Bugnini (and friends) had concocted.
==============================================================================

Again, TJM, what we need is you to stop misrepresenting my original comment. You switched topics on me. But I have, time and again, supported with facts my original comment.

But now, you have trapped yourself as you have refused to respond to some simple questions that I posed to you.

As you have pretended that Pope Venerable Pius XII did not enact radical reforms, you are not keen to answer simple questions that I posed to you.

Example:

-- Do you characterize as radical or traditional Pope Venerable Pius XII's Holy Week liturgical reform?

You know that Pope Venerable Pius XII's Holy Week reform was radical. But you have refused to answer the above question as that will shatter you claim that Pope Venerable Pius XII did not enact radical reforms.

You are unable to admit that he reformed radically the traditional Midnight Fast.

Again, TJM, you have trapped yourself with your claim that Pope Venerable Pius XII did not institute radical reforms, liturgical or otherwise.

You refuse to admit that my statements about Pope Venerable Pius XII are correct.

Pax.

Mark Thomas

TJM said...

MT,

You have no sense of proportion and sound unhinged. Again, tell me which texts and rubrics of the Mass were changed by Pius XII or buzz off

Mark Thomas said...

TJM,

Again...

-- Was Pope Venerable Pius XII's reform of the Eucharist Fast traditional or radical?

-- Do you characterize as radical or traditional Pope Venerable Pius XII's Holy Week liturgical reform?

Thank you.

Pax.

Mark Thomas

TJM said...

MT,

Give it up. You are desperate to portray Pius XII as a radical liturgical reformer when he was not. YOu are spouting nonsense because you cannot find one word or one rubric that Pius XII changed for the celebration of the Mass in the Latin Rite. Have you read Mediator Dei? Did you attend Mass during his pontificate like I did? Are you 16 and living in Mommy's basement? Grow up. You are beyond tedious at this point.

Mark Thomas said...

Hello, TJM.

Here is the 10th or billionth reminder:

My initial comment on the other thread:

"Pope Blessed Paul VI continued the radical reform process of Church life that Pope Venerable Pius XII initiated."

On the other thread, I supported that declaration via the following examples:

-- I noted that "Pope Venerable Pius XII launched the Church into the Ecumenical Movement. He insisted that the Holy Ghost had inspired the establishment of the Ecumenical Movement."

-- Pope Venerable Pius XII opened the door to married Latin Church priests as he permitted married Protestant clergymen to be ordained as Catholic priests.

-- Pope Venerable Pius XII "directed the world’s religious superiors to begin the modernization of their congregations. He specifically urged simplification of habits, laying aside of outmoded customs, and the ongoing education of members
==============================================================================

TJM,

Pope Venerable Pius XII launched the Church into the Ecumenical Movement. He insisted that the Holy Ghost inspired the creation of the Ecumenical Movement.

TJM, did Pope Venerable Pius XII's acceptance and promotion of the Ecumenical Movement, the creation of which he insisted that the Holy Ghost had inspired, constitute a radical change to Church life?
=======================================================

TJM, did Pope Venerable Pius XII opening of the Latin Church's door to married priests constitute a radical change to Church life?
===========================================================

TJM, do you characterize as radical or traditional Pope Venerable Pius XII's insistence that "world’s religious superiors begin the modernization of their congregations. He specifically urged simplification of habits, laying aside of outmoded customs, and the ongoing education of members"?
=============================================================

Oh...Pope Venerable Pius XII threw Rome's support behind the United Nations Organization.

He called upon nations to surrender armaments to the United Nations.

He modernized Biblical Studies.

TJM, despite all of the above, you have insisted that Pope Venerable Pius XII did not in any way reform the life of the Church in radical fashion?

Correct?

The term "radical" should not be connected in any way to Pope Venerable Pius II's reform of Church life.

Correct?

Pax.

Mark Thomas

TJM said...

MT,

Still not answering the two basic questions I posed because you can't.

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

ByzRC said...

MY,

Do you know what rubric is? Have you read Pius' encyclicals? Your sources are from trad blogs it would seem. This discussion is tough to have without some background in those documents.

ByzRC said...

Mark Thomas said:

"Is that the web site on which the priest begs people to send him money...where the priest travels on endless vacations...where the priest posts photos of the fine food and alcohol that, thanks to people who send him money, he consumes... etc..."

This is sanctimonious deflecting. Let it be said that the last time I checked, Fr. Z is not a priest of an order requiring a vow of poverty. No one forces anyone to donate to him. How his benefactors choose to spend their money is their business. He and any other non-ordered priest are just as entitled as you and I to enjoy a good steak, a nice bottle of wine, a fine cigar and custom shirts with cuff links. What do you expect him to live on, beans on toast? Climb down off your pseudo high horse and for the love of St. Peter answer the pointed questions asked by TJM already.

TJM said...

ByzRC,

Little MT would not have the temerity to go over to Father Z's website where he would be crushed like a little bug. I suspect Father Z would respond in Latin anyway which would prove problematic for our little poster. When he referred to Pius XII as a radical liturgical reformer, I knew we weren't playing with someone with a full deck. The most splendid liturgies I ever witnessed in my lifetime were celebrated by Pius XII with the aid of his marvelous master of ceremonies, Enrico Dante. Pope Francis can't hold a candle next to Pius XII. ByzRC, thanks for pushing our little friend to answer my two basic questions which he will NEVER answer because he can't. Nemo dat quod non habet!

TJM said...

ByzRC,

Do you think MT is still doing his research on all of the "radical changes" Pius XII made to the Mass?