This is the crisis of the Church today. It is a polarization born of rupture and clear choices. Who will prevail?
Oakland’s Bishop Michael Barber, SJ, told the Journal that Archbishop Cordileone was “prophetic,” while adding that the San Francisco archbishop and his San Diego counterpart embody “two forces in the Church right now” — with McElroy representing the concerns of Pope Francis, and Cordileone stressing the approaches of Pope St. John Paul and Pope emeritus Benedict XVI.
My comments on Pope Francis’ freaking out over restorationists:
Does this mean that His Holiness also will clamp down on the Modern Missal being celebrated in continuity with the Ancient Missal? By this I mean:
2. Ad orientem
3. Kneeling for Holy Communion.
4. Lace altar clothes and albs and Roman Vestments?
Given the micromanagement of dioceses by Vatican dicastories under Pope Francis, a grotesque form of centralization in a Church where Pope Francis touts decentralization, will there be a crackdown on these Modern Masses celebrated in an ancient way?
QUIET, don't give him any more divisive ideas
Seriously. The Holy Father raves like some addled old man worrying about immigrants and Canadians taking over the neighborhood. We can have any language we like and any prayers we like at Mass as long as it isn’t Latin or reference the Trinity. I think Pope Francis is fighting an old war from Argentina and is being manipulated by cynical people who hate the Church. I honestly don’t know if it was ever any other way.
I have lived through 7 Popes. Here is how I saw them up:
Pius XII - dignified, yet warm, articulate, and holy
John XXIII - affable, yet dignified, articulate, and holy
Paul VI - socially awkward, articulate, unintentionaly destructive, and holy
John Paul I - affable, articulate, and holy
John Paul II - affable, yet commanding, articulate and holy
Benedict XVI - dignified, yet warm, brilliant, articulate, and holy
Francis I - undignified, irascible, confusing, and cruel
I think you will enjoy this "before and after."
Well, only one of them is pope right now...
BH, true, but in what period of history, at least recent history, has a reigning pope so "canceled" two previous papacies and denigrates those who supported them and continue to support the truths they taught?
And it is laughable for anyone in the Vatican to condemn Catholics who question how Vatican II was implemented, especially as it regards the liturgical life of the Church, as opposing what the Holy Spirit accomplished at Vatican II.
Yet a Jesuit Cardinal very close to Pope Francis as well as that well known German Cardinal question Scripture, Tradition and Natural law as it concerns human sexuality and same sex relationships that are sexual, not just platonic, and are quite willing to overturn it. And any rebuke from His Holiness?
Well Allan, only the Vatican Archives knows how many popes have been cancelled by their successors - or simply the march of time. The (un)fortunate reality is that today we know instantaneously when the Pope sneezes - up until a hundred years ago, most Catholics would barely know the pope's name.
IMHO, we lived through three popes whose basic stance in leadership was one of fear. Paul VI was afraid of his own shadow - and certainly would have never called Vatican II himself. John Paul II, lived in fear of the communism that he experienced in the wake of World War II. Benedict XVI lived in fear of the student revolts of the late 1960's. I am not saying that their fear was unreal or not justified - but is is a terrible stance from which to lead the Church - especially when one of Jesus' most used phrases was "be not afraid."
One issue for Catholics is that there is little formation and education between truth (lower case "t") and Truth (upper case "T). Not to mention how practices and affectations fit in. Kneeling for communion, Latin for liturgy, lace - none of them are truth - lower or upper case. (But don't let some of the people who post on your blog find that out.)
So when it gets to even bigger issues - like sexuality and morality - in a world where the understanding of those things is rapidly evolving, the average Catholic is left scratching their heads because the "hierarchy" a) has lost all credibility and b) only knows how to catechize by decree.
What get passed for truth on this blog - that Vatican II was the cause for Catholics leaving the pews - no reputable sociological survey backs that up. People of all denominations were leaving churches in the 1950's and the last decades have only sped that up - did V2 cause every Christian denomination to fall asunder? How about transubstantiation? How often on this blog do we see posts stating that Vatican II was the cause in the drop in "belief". How many Catholics a hundred years ago truly understood the Aristotelian philosophical concept of substance and accidents - and how many simply parroted what they learned in the good old Baltimore Catechism?
As Pilate said, "...truth, what is truth?"
Good points, but you should have added that Pope Francis is terrified of traditionalist Catholics who have embraced the Mass that Pope Benedict said they could and in good conscience. Ecumenism begins at home, but not with the current reigning pope.
Andrew Greeley tried to use "sociology" aka BS, to substantiate that Humanae Vitae was the cause for the drop in Catholics attending Mass, but factually that was not true. The first "deforms" started in Advent of 1964, Humanae Vitae was issued in July of 1968. People, including members of my family, were already voting with their feet for almost 4 years. I was alive then and remember it well.
FYI, the Baltimore Catechism at least provided a common framework, terminology and a basic understanding of the truths of the Faith for American Catholics. What replaced it was bilge. As Gertrude Stein would say, "there is no there, there." I was initially educated in the Faith by the Baltimore catechism but went on to study Thomistic Theology in College. I also was in a Gregorian Chant choir at age 8 and could chant 5 Latin Ordinaries by heart by age 10 and used the St. Joseph Daily Missal, the very soul of simplicity.
Pope Francis is a tyrant.
Pray for Francis, for his conversion and for his eternal soul.
My name is Bill, and I am with Tony. I too am a restorationist.
Consider the fruits of the new mass:
- Weekly attendance down from 85% to <25%
- Parishes closed
- Schools closed
- Many cease to believe... (heaven, hell, the devil, the true presence)
- Many deny the truth of Humanae Vitae
- Many choose to put their wants above doctrine
- Children departing to Protestant churches with strong messages
Other fruits which were at least partly of the new mass:
- Priests departed
- Monasteries closed
- Convents closed
- Seminaries closed
Yeah, that's how satan spells success.
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