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Monday, November 4, 2019

WOW! BUT PRIESTS AND BISHOPS MY AGE WILL IGNORE THIS AND SIMPLY REPEAT THE TIRED OLD SAME METHODS THAT MAKES CATHOLICS EITHER LUKEWARM OR COMPLETELY DISENGAGED FROM THE CHURCH


Most clergy will say that their modern approach to liturgy and catehesis is working because their Masses are full. What they fail to realize is that those who attend Mass may not be very well formed as Catholics. They support same sex marriage, abortion on demand, women clergy and any kind of creativity in the liturgies of the Church and its music. In other words, these people are all over the place but remain "cultural" Catholics who like the sense of belonging, regardless of what is experienced or taught.

In addition to this, most clergy refused to acknowledge that even in  a parish with well attended Masses, that group only comprises 10% to 30% of the Catholics in the area. In other words about 70% to 90% of Catholics are disengaged.

Thus this truly good news from FSSP parishes (completely in union with Rome, not the SSPX) tells us that the Catholics that are going to these parishes are Catholics who want to be Catholic, a no nonsense Liturgical life, strong beliefs in the Real Presence, male only clergy, pro-life and Holy Matrimony between one man and one woman and if lawful (sacramental) for a lifetime!

I copy this from the Deacon's Bench:

The relatively new pontifical society, devoted to celebrating Mass in the Extraordinary Form, reports a surge in Mass attendance around the country. From its website:  Fraternity parishes and chapels around the country report major increases in Sunday Mass attendance compared with last year. Newer apostolates have seen dramatic growth, some doubling their numbers over the last year, such as Los Angeles, which went from 250 per Sunday to 500. The apostolate did not even have its own church until 2018,… Read more

34 comments:

Dan said...

Of course the facts will be ignored. Fear of offending anyone far outweighs any fear of God for them.

Anonymous said...

Unsurprising. People have long rejected (by leaving) the Church and its lukewarm stance to bring back followers. People who are truly searching for salvation are attracted to what saved souls for centuries. It will be ignored by the larger church out of shear laziness. The old rite purified the faithful by its demands of hard work, self sacrifice, and penance but rewarded the souls who did. The novus ordo, well, if a holy day is within 7 days of a Sunday, then its moved to Sunday. Fast on Friday? Well, you can just do something else penitential, like give up a morning cup of coffee...

Anonymous said...

...OR Sunday Mass is full because one of the two or three weekend Mass times has been dropped and remaining Masses combined. This has happened in the past year in two of our area churches. Giving is significantly down in one of them. Meanwhile, Mass is heavily attended in a local church offering a Vietnamese Mass, and a Hispanic Mass is overflowing into the Narthex of another (that being the church with the dropped English mass-time, and with significantly reduced giving). Soo, one concludes that a vernacular OF is very popular with these cultures.

“The times, they are a-changing”, no? A dilemma for the assigned priest and for the parishioners trying to keep afloat...

TJM said...

Father McDonald,

Father Z has posted a video of the young Austrian man who tossed the idol into the Tiber. You will appreciate it very much. His account also convinced me that the faux Synod was a political not a religious event and our "leaders" are craven loons who could care less about Christ and His Church.

Tom Makin said...

We have met the Pastor of St Mary's in Providence RI, Father Michael Berg, FSSP. We attended the ordination of his new Associate Pastor, Father Rock on October 26th. Archbishop Athanasius Schneider was the ordaining Bishop. The church was packed and the ordination was a sight to behold....amazing, awe inspiring, uplifting. My wife had met Father Berg at a local Lowes...he was purchasing a new dishwasher for the rectory. She saw the cassock and introduced herself. He is a very down to earth, kind man and not at all suffering the sin of clericalism so often spoken of by the liberation theologist sitting on the Chair of Saint Peter, Pope Francis. I wish more people could see this and open their minds and hearts to it. As Father McDonald has often said here in this blog....'it doesn't have to be this or that. This and that is perfectly okay and in keeping with the hermeneutic of continuity. Wanted to share a real first hand experience.

Православный физик said...

If one settles for the LCD in the spiritual life, don't be surprised if people leave. People want to be challenged.

rcg said...

The FSSP has a website that shows where parishes are in North America. I believe that includes where the priests are allowed to use a parish chapel even if there is no official parish. However, as I travel I have been able to find one on most Holy Days or if I am merely wanting a Mass.

Richard M. Sawicki said...

I'm confused about one thing.

I've been calling/e-mailing the FSSP parish nearest me, inquiring as whether or not they might be able to pay my octogenarian, stroke-victim mother a visit, and continue to receive TOTAL SILENCE. No call-backs, no return e-mails.

What gives?

Gaudete in Domino Semper!

Anonymous4EF said...

It is very sad that the FSSP is anathema in the Diocese of Savannah. Faithful Catholics in Columbus and Augusta would support a FSSP parish. FSSP was willing to send two priests to the diocese and establish a parish, but our bishop would not even speak to them.

Anonymous said...

4EF Neither Columbus nor Augusta needs another parish of any flavor.

Joseph Johnson said...

Anonymous4EF,
I have heard the story of the Fraternity's offer of priests to our Diocese as well. I was told by one priest that they were refused because they only offer the EF Mass and will not work as "supply priests" to offer OF Masses. There are a lot of regular priests who will ONLY offer the OF Mass (and a few of them know the EF).

Priestly Fraternities like the FSSP and the ICKSP have the charism of being specialized EF priests. We should accept them for what they are and avail ourselves of what they have to offer the Church. As many proponents of the OF often like to say, the Mass is the Mass. That works both ways (in fact, it works several ways--with the multiple Catholic Rites and the new Anglican Ordinariate). The FSSP recognizes the validity of the OF Mass (as well as the other Catholic Rites). Willingness to actually offer the OF Mass should not be used as a test of loyalty to the Church or a precondition to these groups' admittance to work within a diocese.

My first experience with the old Rite Latin Mass was in the Diocese of Little Rock Arkansas in 1993 with an FSSP priest serving there at the invitation of the late Bishop Andrew McDonald (formerly a priest of the Diocese of Savannah). I will forever be grateful to that FSSP priest for what I learned from him and to Bishop McDonald for making this possible. Since that time, I have felt called to share what I know about the EF Mass with anyone who is willing to listen.

Bishops are charged with governing dioceses and with seeing to the spiritual needs of their flock. If they truly believe in promoting diversity and "dialogue" in a spirit of unity, they should govern in a way that allows for ALL that the Faith allows.

Victor said...

Richaard Sawicki:
Indeed, the FSSP could benefit from taking courses on pastoral care. Too many are concerned with only the liturgy and not the people.

TJM said...

A bishop who would turn down the FSSP's offer is part of the problem not the solution.

Anonymous K at 7:58, per usual, thanks for nothing

Tom Makin said...

From personal experience I could not disagree more with the comment expressed which says "the FSSP could benefit from taking courses on pastoral care. Too many are concerned with only the liturgy and not the people". This is ignorance!!

As for the Bishop of Savannah's purported rejection of the FSSP we only need look at his habit. It matches that of the person reverencing the Pachamama in the Vatican Garden. Now this is not fair I admit, and is snarky at best, but that being said, it would be interesting to better understand, if true, why Savannah's Bishop rejected an FSSP offer to come to that diocese.

Anonymous said...

FSSP and ICKSP do not have a "charism." They have made a choice, they have NOT received a gift.

Bishops are charged to attend to spiritual needs, not "wants."

Anonymous said...

Agreed with earlier comment that neither Columbus (Muscogee County) or Augusta (Richmond County) needs another parish---and certainly not Macon (Bibb County)---if anything, we may need some parish consolidations. Does Macon, which has hardly grown in the last 50 years, really need 3 parishes? Population in Muscogee and Richmond Counties is largely flat---folks moving to Harris County in the Columbus area and Columbia County in the Augusta area. Someone mentioned to be with growth of St. Teresa of Avila in Columbia County, St. Marys on the Hill on Monte Santo Avenue is seeing declining numbers, and I can't help but thinking there is little growth at Holy Trinity in downtown or St. Joseph's on the southside.

TJM said...

Anonymous K at 8:31,

LOL - the bishops have done a miserable job, period. Most of them would have slept through the Sermon on the Mount.

Joseph Johnson said...

Anonymous K at 8:31,

Your last sentence about attending to needs and not wants sounds like and old banker my dad used to quote.

Dan said...

Anonymous, genuinely curious. What do you mean that the FSSP lacks charism? (I am not familiar with the other acronym)

Pater Ignotus Was My Pastor said...

Dan: ICKSP = Institute of Christ the King, Sovereign Priest. I believe they are based out of St. John Cantius Catholic Church in Chicago.

Anonymous K at 0831: Do spiritual needs include giving the retreat at the annual meeting of the heretical Association of United States Catholic Priests (AUSCP)?

Mark Thomas said...

In regard to the FSSP story in question, Rorate Caeli asked the following:

"Why aren't more archbishops inviting the FSSP and other traditional societies of priests into their archdioceses?"

On the surface, that is a reasonable question. At least in regard to the FSSP. The FSSP is in full-communion with the Vicar of Christ. However, even at FSSP parishes, at least the one in my diocese, we have "traditionalists" who espouse the usual right-wing nonsense.

But overall, the parish is healthy.

As to why certain Archbishops have not responded more generously to "traditional" Catholics...

Perhaps said bishops are familiar with "traditional" Catholics only through Rorate Caeli...1Peter5, The Remnant, LifeSiteNews...

Anybody would be horrified in regard to the lies and hatred that said folks have spread in the name of "traditional" Catholicism.

There are "traditional" Catholics who've acknowledged that "traditional" Catholics are their own worst enemies.

Fortunately, there are plenty of rational "traditional" Catholics. They have the right to worship via the TLM. Bishops should attend to said Catholics.

Pax.

Mark Thomas

Joseph Johnson said...

Pastoral Mission of Fraternity Priests:

"The members of the Fraternity (FSSP) are sent out to serve the faithful throughout the world in apostolates, which are entrusted to them by local bishop and are in conformity with its particular charism." (FSSP website)

Mission and Charism:

"The FSSP consists of priests and seminarians who intend to pursue the goal of Christian perfection according to a specific charism, which is to offer the Mass and other sacraments according to the Roman Rite as it existed before the liturgical reforms of the Second Vatican Council." (Wikipedia article on the FSSP).

TJM said...

ater Ignotus,

Bee would be very upset with you! The ICKSP is a separate order and NOT part of the Canons Regular of St. John Cantius in Chicago who are persecuted by the Archbishop of Chicago who allows active gay men to run parishes in Chicago. I have family members in the media and I am getting ready to expose Cupich and his evil gang.

Dan said...

TJM, hasn't Cupich exposed himself enough already?

Paul McCarthy said...

I mentioned AUSCP To the Bishop and got a snarky response back. I must have touched a nerve.

I would attend our TLM more but it’s at 1 PM and I fast until after mass. Would be better to have it at 1130 when most Pewsitters are those that like to sleep in anyway. They should have the 1 PM mass not those that want the TLM.

TJM said...

Cupich's blatant double standard and apostasy needs special focus

Anonymous said...

The desire for Mass celebrated in the EF is a desire, a want. It is not a need.

John Nolan said...

'The desire for Mass celebrated in the EF is a desire, a want. It is not a need.'

I recall Fr Kavanaugh saying this a few years ago. In fact I remember taking isssue with him on this point, since he failed to appreciate that 'want' and 'need' can be coterminous. And this is a man who is always insisting that words have multiple definitions.

Furthermore, people have different needs. I neither desire, nor need, to attend Mass in the vernacular, since my needs can be satisfied elsewhere.

Either Anonymous is guilty of plagiarism, or he and Fr K are one and the same.

John Nolan said...

Further to the above, 'want' as a transitive verb can, and usually does, have the meaning 'to desire' or 'to wish for'. However, Anonymous uses the noun form in the singular, and a 'want' is not a desire; it is a lack or deficiency. To be in want is to be in need. The plural 'wants' can mean 'desires' and is often bracketed with 'needs', as in the Kenny Rogers song: 'And the wants and the needs of a woman your age, Ruby I realize'.

In any case, it is not for us to pronounce on what others may see as needful for their own spiritual well-being and development. I dare say a great many people feel a need to attend worship in the vernacular, and find the average parish Mass fulfils their particular needs.

However, for many people, it does not. To say, regarding the EF Mass 'you may want it but you don't need it' is both presumptuous and condescending.

Anonymous said...

Of course words have multiple meanings, John. Everyone knows this. The various definitions of a word may be found in a dictionary, but the meaning of word is determined by its use, its context.

People certainly have different needs. Not all of those needs are legitimate or healthy. "I need a drink," says the alcoholic. Well, that 's a pretty real need there, but if you pour the alcoholic a double Scotch, you are contributing to his illness and, possibly, his early death. "I need cashmere underwear." Well, I doubt that. You may WANT it, but is there really a need?

Two people share an idea, a thought, and it's plagiarism? Check the dictionary, John.

To be in want MAY be to be in need, but that is hardly the universal case.

Many people want the EF, but describe it as a need I order to make it sound as if the person who does not agree with their expressed "need" is a terrible, awful ogre who is mistreating them and trying to drive them from the Church.

That's a bunch of malarkey wrapped up in self-righteous sanctimoniousness.

John Nolan said...

'Many people want the EF but describe it as a need [in] order to make it sound as if the person who does not agree with their expressed "need" is a terrible, awful ogre who is mistreating them and trying to drive them from the Church.'

The person who wrote this, whoever he may be, (perhaps he is indeed the Edward Hyde to Fr Kavanaugh's Henry Jekyll) is good at stereotyping those whom he dislikes and attributing base motives to them.

If he had any humility he would accept that the needs of others are not necessarily less legitimate or healthy than his own, which are moreover entirely his own business.



Anonymous said...

"The person who wrote this, whoever he may be, (perhaps he is indeed the Edward Hyde to Fr Kavanaugh's Henry Jekyll) is good at stereotyping those whom he dislikes and attributing base motives to them."

No, I don't need humility to accept the so-called "needs" of others because they aren't needs. They are wants.

I could just as easily say, "If you had any humility, you would accept that my judgment that others are faking "needs."

But, of course, humility isn't your strong suit, so I don't imagine you will act accordingly.

John Nolan said...

Anonymous

You can say what you want, but you won't convince many people. You flounder around, pretending to have 'judgement' but all you are doing is parading your opinions as facts.

You probably won't have noticed, since you have a problem with basic English comprehension, that I have never, ever, disparaged those who prefer the Novus Ordo in the vernacular to the Roman Rite in Latin. And charity isn't my strong suit.

A pity you can't be as tolerant as I am (and that's saying something, since tolerance isn't my strong suit either). Try as I might, I find it difficult to suffer fools gladly.

John Nolan said...

Especially anonymous fools.