Monday, August 20, 2018

FATHER JAY SCOTT NEWMAN MAKES SOME STARTLING SUGGESTIONS THAT THOSE IN THE EF MOVEMENT WILL ABHOR BUT NEED TO READ AND HEAR

Fr. Newman who is a priest of Charleston and a convert from Protestantism, makes his own connecting of the dots in his article.

I am in Charleston on a province continuing ed program. I suspect Fr. Newman and Fr. Longenecker will be here. I wonder if the original topics of the conference will be adjusted to the current unpleasantness?

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21 comments:

TJM said...

Father McDonald, slightly off topic but Father Newman is a huge proponent of ad orientem celebration. Here is an article by Peter Kwasniewski from The New Liturgical Movement I think you will find interesting:


http://www.newliturgicalmovement.org/2018/08/mass-facing-people-as-counter.html#disqus_thread

Henry said...

As one "in the EF movement", I see nothing in Fr. Newman's suggestions to disagree with from an EF/OF viewpoint.

The Egyptian said...

Does the Mega-Diocese foster sexual scandals and bad priests? Yes

https://taylormarshall.com/2018/08/does-the-mega-diocese-foster-sexual-scandals-and-bad-priests-yes.html

please look at his map comparing Italy to The USA, it is an eye opener

Dr Taylor Marshall addresses this quite well, we need MORE bishops attached to smaller easier to administer dioceses, we here in the far north of the Cincinnati diocese rarely see bishop Snurr except for conformation and it is fast, he is a "BUSY IMPORTANT MAN" Hell we rarely even make a mention in our "local Catholic paper". Any of our bigger rural small town parish churches would do quite well for a "cathedral" and the rectories are in good shape, It is a three hour drive to here from his "office" and he has an auxiliary who just as well could live up here and be "among the Sheep" in a smaller diocese, using local people who know the area and people to staff his office, they know the "lay of the land", I believe it would even help vocations to see a simpler local bishop on a regular basis and also be a boost for the priests and religious in the area for them to be congenial with their bishop and also allow him to keep a closer tab on them and would maybe allow a more intimate relationship with the laity. Could you imagine a prayer and social group led by the "local" bishop say once a week or month for local men and boys who are discerning a vocation? The State of Ohio alone really could use IMHO 8 to 10 maybe even more "local" bishops serving their own parish under the head of one archbishop who also has his own "small diocese" to look after. After all what does Catholic social doctrine call for but subsidiarity and solidarity, not the almighty ruler from afar living in his "palace"

Fr. Michael J. Kavanaugh said...

I've been saying the same thing on this blog for years.....

Anonymous said...

The bishop being at his home cathedral every Sunday is not practical---some Sundays he is out of the diocese (maybe even in Rome), and other Sundays (and weekdays) it is off to "Confirmation 10"1, maybe dedication of a new church or church-related buildings and so on." It is important that he been seen at parishes across a diocese, not just the home church, otherwise people might not see the connection between a bishop and a parish, perhaps giving the impression of congregationalism, which of course is a "no-no." Like the old saying, "where the bishop is, there is the church."

The debate over auxilaries has varied over the years, though I don't think the Roman Church necessarily overdoes those---unlike in the Episcopal Church. The Episcopal Diocese of Atlanta, which perhaps numbers a 100 or so congregations, often has had auxilary (or in their lexicon, suffragan or assistant bishops), even though the number of Episcopalians has never exceeded 55,000 there (compared to a million+ in the Atlanta Archdiocese). But Episcopal bishops tend to do their parish visitations just on Sundays, and of course there are only so many Sundays of the year (you can pretty much rule out visitations in July and at least til mid August because of summer vacation). They are not so keen on weekday visits.

rcg said...

Me, either. Although the idea visiting the various parishes to see how the individual priests are doing is not a bad idea.

Fr. Allan J. McDonald said...

As everyone knows, I don’t like the fussiness of the EF pontifical Mass and the silly cappa and even more abhor the busking and gloves. Post Vatican II reforms for bishops was appropriate for choir vesture and pontifical Masses. House cassock and then the more formal ones does not bother me and irrelevant to this discussion. But even if you kept pre Vatican II regalia, one could still reform criminal behavior of bishops and priests by following both civil and canon law and through transparency. Joint lay and clerical oversight consultation bodies would be beneficial too.

Anonymous said...

Once again tradition in the garbage because some protestant or ill informed Catholic doesn't understand. Why not go all the way and just be Lutherans. I'm fed up with stupid.

Marc said...

You do know that not every Pontifical Mass involves all of that regalia, right?

Adam Michael said...

Fr. Jay Scott Newman has long been a supporter of "evangelical Catholicism" (or WWCLD - What Would Catholic Luther Do?) and is using the current crisis to support his brand. The reality is that sexual abuse in the Church transcends the liturgical frou-frou and banal divide since abusers can and do come from both. We need to address the abandonment of holiness and authentic penitential life in the Church that turns good men bad, makes bad men worse, and liturgically fetishizes sexual abuse crises. These are all signs of a weakened and spiritually sick Church that in too many of its members has long ceased to seek after the things of God and the true purpose of her worship and traditions.

TJM said...

Adam Michael,

Maybe Father Newman goes a tad far, but one very legitimate point he makes which is at the heart of the crisis, is that the bishop is often not home grown in a Diocese and familiar with the people he is supposed to lead, and in some cases, is anxious to move on to a more prestigious appointment. The bishop has morphed into an administrator rather than a shepherd to his people. I personally don't think the vestiture point is that important. I do not mind being able to identify the person's position in the Church by the clothes they wear. On the other hand, if I see a priest in his "cowboy" suit or a nun in a pantsuit, I just am not interested in them.

Joseph Johnson said...

Fr. McDonald,
My pastor is attending that same meeting in Charleston. Maybe you could introduce him to Fr. Newman. Like Fr. Kavanaugh, I feel fairly confident that he would agree with much of what Fr. Newman has written. I don't totally disagree with him, either (just don't go so far as to advocate getting rid of cool historical clerical hats like birettas and saturnos!). Still, I find the Card. Burke interview and the Bp. Morlino letter to be the most direct and on point regarding the causes and possible solutions in the sexual abuse crisis.

rcg said...

The traditional minded don’t mind removing the trappings because they know it isn’t about them anyway. The progressives want to remove it because they are trying to expunge the old Church in favor of new fashion. The Italianate garments and architecture is not my personal taste but I would be foolish to abandon it without understanding its value. Removing it should not mean disrespecting it.

Adam Michael said...

TJM,

I don't disagree that Fr. Newman gives some sound suggestions for bishops in the area of diocesan administration. However, the problem with priests like Newman is that their purpose is never to only work to make the Church's apostolic mission more effective - they seem to fancy themselves as possessing knowledge of a new way forward to make the Church more faithful to the Gospel, more scriptural, in general, more like what Jesus wants. However, they are not Protestants, despite how much they value elements of the Protestant Reformation. The measure by which they are bound to understand "the Gospel" and "being scriptural," is mediated by the Roman Catholic Church, which as a matter of faith does not permit her faithful to teach that her forms of religion are incentives to impiety (Council of Trent, Session 22: Canon 7). The current abuse crisis will never be solved by those who try to outwardly reform the Church as a Luther 2.0, but by those who accept and live deeply her unchanged Faith and the traditions developed under the guidance of the Holy Ghost.

Joseph Johnson said...

Certainly, Fr. Newman makes a very valid point regarding the desirability of a "home-grown" bishop (or clergy, generally). The practical problem with that is the lack of local vocations.

I couldn't imagine being anything other than Catholic but, culturally speaking, I often have felt more at home at events involving food at the Baptist churches that my maternal grandparents and other maternal relatives and inlaws attend. They talk like I do and eat the kind of food I was raised to eat (South Georgia accent and eating Southern cuisine). In the Catholic Church, if the "wrong" people prepare the tea for a meal (Yankees or other non-Southern Americans), they don't understand the critical importance of putting the real sugar in the hot, steeped tea before adding the cold water! Adding sugar to unsweetened iced tea just doesn't work! Yankees need to learn that when they move South!

John Nolan said...

The reason for simplifying the ceremonial of bishops after Vatican II was precisely to enable the bishop to celebrate a sung Mass when visiting a parish. In the later Middle Ages when pluralism and non-residence were commonplace, visitations were carried out by the archdeacon, but after Trent the bishop was supposed to reside in his see. The aim of visitation goes far beyond administering Confirmation.

Anglican bishops may wear a business suit, but with a purple shirt front and pectoral cross. His Catholic counterpart wears a black suit and shirt and conceals the cross in the inside pocket of the jacket. Hardly showing off.

The bishop is indeed pastor of his diocese, but he is not the parish priest of his cathedral. The American use of the term 'pastor' to mean a parish priest causes confusion here. The PP of the cathedral parish (which might be quite small) is properly the cathedral Administrator.

'Imperium' has the primary meaning of 'rule' or 'command' and the duty of a bishop is to rule his See. He is a pastor but also a prince (princeps). He answers to the pope, but is not a papal lieutenant or delegate. If JSN wants a sensible reform, he could do away with national Episcopal Conferences with their bloated and lay-led bureacracies.

TJM said...

John Nolan,

Couldn’t agree with you more about bishop conferences - left-wing loon organizations that harm the Faith

The Egyptian said...

dear Anonymous
you have verified my reasons for many small dioceses, with a small area and number of parishes to oversee there wouldn't be a large number of functions to keep the bishop "busy", how many new buildings would he need to consecrate a year, probably NONE, confirmations, done in the afternoon, after his own mass in his home church, if he only had a dozen to twenty parishes or in our area Priests that cover two to 4 parishes each, that would not take the whole year, and actually there would not be need for him to travel to Rome much, that would be the role of the Archbishop, his superior, his job is to oversee his priests and visit with the laity, get the smell of the sheep if you will

Fr Martin Fox said...

Father Newman's idea about the bishop offering Mass each Sunday in his cathedral is a very interesting one. When you put it together with his recommendation that dioceses not be too large, then in many cases, perhaps most, his having Mass that morning does not prevent him from visiting parishes later that day for the sacrament of confirmation. But it would likely mean visiting only one parish on a given Sunday. Of course there will still be dioceses that are geographically expansive, and perhaps the bishop would only be able to have Mass in his cathedral two times a month; but still, it's a good idea to reinforce the norm of the bishop in his cathedra (and cathedral).

As far as dispensing with traditional titles and accoutrements, I wouldn't object too much if it doesn't get turned into renewed iconoclasm. Moreover, I would insist that at the same time, there be a renewed emphasis on the ontological identity of the bishop, as with the priest and deacon: namely, that the sacrament transforms them and unites them to the person of Christ in a unique way. This truth has been under constant attack in the last half-century, and is only gradually and grudgingly being given attention.

Only a few months ago, on this very blog, we saw a tired old advocate -- that is, Rev. Donald Cozzens -- once again trotting out the notion of Holy Orders being merely a role, rather than a new and indelible identity. I am very confident Father Newman has zero interest in that cause, but he can surely appreciate how his suggestions could be hijacked into that cause.

Anonymous said...

Well, Egyptian, if we are into small dioceses, lets start with creating a new one out of both the Archdiocese of Atlanta and the Diocese of Savannah. The see city---not to give it away---would be the home of a "certain, famous" golf tournament that began 84 years ago and is located along the Savannah River, across from a place known as the "Palmetto state". It would run west to Lake Oconee (Greene County), maybe even include Athens and then south to maybe Swainsboro and Dublin. That would lessen the travel of the bishop of Savannah especially...of course one thing you would have to look at is financial feasibility---geographically, it is odd that Columbus, just 100 miles from Atlanta, is in the Savannah diocese, but it (and probably Macon) were probably included back in the 1950s for numbers reasons. Atlanta is getting too big...

John Nolan said...

Regarding auxiliary bishops, the Westminster archdiocese includes Greater London north of the Thames and the county of Hertfordshire. There are 214 parishes in this quite small geographical area which means auxiliary bishops are necessary.

From an EF point of view, the Latin Mass Society has its annual Requiem Mass in Westminster Cathedral, and it is usually celebrated by one of the auxiliary bishops. This has two advantages. Firstly it means we can have a Pontifical Mass, and secondly it adds to the number of bishops who are willing and able to offer it.

Bishop Alan Hopes of East Anglia was an auxiliary at Westminster, and since being translated has celebrated the PHM in his own cathedral.