Who are the others that will want a piece of the state's sacrament of marriage? No one must be excluded from the love, companionship and possibly of rearing children in the state's sacrament of marriage. Incestuous situations to include daughter and father, mother and son, sister and brother and the same sex of each. Polygamists are another excluded group. Age brackets for marriage will have to be addressed too. In my memory and with parental permission, girls could marry much older men in South Carolina at the age of 13. I think the law still permits 14 year olds to marry. Why exclude those who are 13 and 14 years old or even younger in other states from the state's sacrament of marriage? Don't they deserve to feel as full Americans?
Another sacrament of the emerged state religion that many of the "nones" have embraced is the sacrament of abortion which soon in every state in the nation will allow partial birth abortion until the 9th month of pregnancy. Infanticide will continue well into the child's first year after birth and all with legal protection of the state church.
Another emerging sacrament in this new religion will be the sacrament euthanasia. Just as we compassionately put down dogs, shoot horses and drown puppies and kittens, we will put down human beings who have outlasted their usefulness thus putting an end to their misery and the misery of those who have to put up with their decline and the inconvenience and costs this creates for individuals and the state.
If you are fortunate enough, at your funeral the President of the United States, whoever he or she will be and possibly transgendered one day, will sing "Amazing Grace" for you as the sovereign acts as both president and pastor since in effect that is what it is as though we are back in the Roman Empire and the Emperor and pope are one.
Meanwhile, any religion that does not accept the infallibility of the new state religion and its supreme pastors and tries to challenge it will be burned at the stake albeit symbolically. The symbolic might include stiff fines, prison time and marginalization and ridicule.
What the late Cardinal George of Chicago once said will become reality. He died in his bed. His successor, if he upholds the Catholic Faith and does not appease or capitulate, will die in prison and his successor will die a martyr.
This kind of reporting from Catholic News Service will lead to Cardinal George's conclusions:
U.S. Catholic Bishops on Same-Sex Marriage Ruling: ‘Profoundly Immoral and Unjust’
U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops at their 2015 General Assembly,
held in St. Louis, Mo. (Photo: AP)
“Regardless of what a narrow majority of the Supreme Court may declare at this moment in history, the nature of the human person and marriage remains unchanged and unchangeable,” reads the statement as issued by USCCB President Joseph E. Kurtz, the archbishop of Louisville, Ky.
“Just as Roe v. Wade did not settle the question of abortion over 40 years ago, Obergefell v. Hodges does not settle the question of marriage today,” said the bishops. “Neither decision is rooted in the truth, and as a result, both will eventually fail.”
“Today the Court is wrong again,” reads the statement. “It is profoundly immoral and unjust for the government to declare that two people of the same sex can constitute a marriage.”
“The unique meaning of marriage as the union of one man and one woman is inscribed in our bodies as male and female,” said the bishops. “Mandating marriage redefinition across the country is a tragic error that harms the common good and most vulnerable among us, especially children.”
“The law has a duty to support every child’s basic right to be raised, where possible, by his or her married mother and father in a stable home,” said the USCCB.
They further said, “Jesus Christ, with great love, taught unambiguously that from the beginning marriage is the lifelong union of one man and one woman. As Catholic bishops, we follow our Lord and will continue to teach and to act according to this truth.”
There are 446 active and retired Catholic bishops in the United States, and 195 archdiocese and dioceses. They all serve the faithful in the Catholic Church, headed by Pope Francis in Rome.
There are an estimated 70 million Catholics in the United States.
My comment and lament: Apart from the here and now, why else should the Church and every Catholic uphold the truth about marriage? What about the truth about living together in a sexual relationship without the benefit of marriage, which is also common today. Many heterosexuals intentionally have children out of wedlock. What is the greatest concern the Church should have apart from the sociological and psychological aspects of these irregular situations, of no marriage or perverted marriage? Many homosexuals and heterosexuals are promiscuous. Marriage doesn't stop promiscuity. Will homosexual marriages consider adultery a sin leading to damnation?
What about the damnation of souls! The Church's primary mission is the salvation of souls and of the world to the ends of the world. In saving souls we build a just society, yes, this is true, but the just society building doesn't come first for the Church the saving of souls does and the other things follow!
The sad fact is that the Church began to marginalize herself with Vatican II. It has been downhill all the way since then. She continues to marginalize herself by trying to become an expert in everything from how to wage war to climate science, none of which have anything to do with the salvation of souls and the prophetic reminder to everyone that "the form of this world is passing away" and that Christ will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead and that this earth, no matter how clean or polluted, will perish. Many in the Church simply do not believe that, or they live as if it is not so, and this includes many Priests and Bishops many of whom, I'm sure, were architects of Vat II. Their true hope of Heaven is to build one on earth through humanistic means and by trying to enlist governments in the cause. They refuse too see that this has failed miserably, so the Church flounders…without direction, without passion, with no prophetic spirit. We are, indeed, in another Babylonian Captivity of the Church. Does not God speak to the present day Church through Israel?
"Your prophets have seen for you false and deceptive visions,
they have not exposed your iniquity to restore your fortunes,
but have seen for you oracles false and misleading.
All who pass along the way clap their hands at you
they hiss and wag their heads at the daughter of Jerusalem;
Is this the city which was called the perfection of beauty
the joy of all the earth?
All your enemies rail against you, they hiss, they gnash their teeth, they cry
'We have destroyed her! This is the day we longed for, now we have it.
The Lord has done what he purposed, has carried out his threat as he ordained long ago
He has demolished without pity, he has made the enemy rejoice over you
And exalted the might of your foes."
OF anyone? Altar girls? Ad populuum? Dixie cups? Clown noses? Gay Priests? Priest pederasts? Atheist advisors?
Meaningless encyclicals? Empty preaching? Ineffectual Bishops and Cardinals? The people living as if there is no God?
Do you really believe the prophets do not speak to the present day Church? Do read again...
St. Paul pretty much sums it up.
"Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the degrading of their bodies among themselves, 25 because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen." Romans 1:24
Yesterday, it wasn't the end of the world, but apparently, today is.
I believe that if the Catholic Church does not want to marry two gay men, it's none of the government's business.
And if the folks up High Street want to perform such a wedding, it's none of the government's business.
As you stated yesterday, the decision does not change Catholic teachings or practice in any way.
The sky-is-falling rhetoric and the faux martyrdom that is always just around the corner and never seems to get here diminishes the dignity of the Church.
Silly Sed, yes, but the government will make it their business. And, increasingly, Church practice will change. There will be lip service to doctrine ("of course we believe the Creed; of course we believe CCC") while practice will loosen toward favoring gays, gay marriage, and divorced/re-married. No, the sky is not falling…that is too tumultuous and dynamic…the Church is dying with a whimper…I see no martyrdom in anyone's future…unless being laughed at by deviates and perverts equals martyrdom.
Oh, and every Catholic that voted for Obama deserves exactly what is happening. I hope they all roast in Hell for eternity.
Such compassion AA; I prefer a more Christlike approach, inviting them to repent, go to Confession and be reconciled with God and the Church after they do their penance. I hope you didn't treat your children this way.
That's a cheap shot, Fr. My children were raised in a devout Christian home with loving parents who allowed them to make their own decisions and choices. One is a criminal defense attorney and the other is a very successful investment advisor/businessman. Their children are being raised in Christian homes. They were also taught the Faith and all about deceivers and enemies of the Faith…and the country.
There comes a point when compassion for our enemies only licenses them for further destruction. Even Christ had limits..maybe you Priests should explore some.
"Such compassion AA; I prefer a more Christlike approach, inviting them to repent, go to Confession and be reconciled with God and the Church after they do their penance. I hope you didn't treat your children this way."
Father, you are incredibly naive.
All of these people who approve of gay "marriage" etc DO NOT BELIEVE WHAT THE CATHOLIC CHURCH TEACHES. Do you understand those simple English words?
Point #1 - #100 If they don't believe they sin.
Why would somebody who doesn't think they commit sin go to confession? What bishop or priest in this country is going to stand up in the pulpit and say, yes yes yes in charity, that gay "marriage" can't exist because 2 people of the same gender CAN'T get married, because marriage is between one man and one woman.
And forget about the sodomy part of things for a moment. What priest or bishop will tell the laity (before they put their money in the basket) that ALL sexual activity outside of marriage is sinful? What priest or bishop is going to actually teach that contraception is a mortal sin. What priest or bishop is going to teach the Catholic Faith is the one true faith established by Christ Himself? You see that is necessary because the Teachings of the Church are absolute Truth because they have been revealed by Christ Himself. But then if priest and bishops don't believe that it's most likely that yesterday's vote won't be a big deal. Yes, they will put a small baker out of business because they refuse to obey but it could never happen to the Church. That is naive and yes in all charity, stupid. What happened to the Church in England when she refused to obey King Henry VIII?
But we have Francis and his synod to look forward to. The synod of mercy towards adulterers and sodomites. Oh what was that St. Paul said about adulterers and sodomites? Oh yes, "they won't inherit the kingdom of heaven". Which of course I'm sure he meant in all charity and mercy.
It's funny, Father, that you comment about the slippery slope of the right to marry. This article is very insightful about the idea that justice Kennedy uses the word "Dignity" to give gays the right to "marry." (I find it somewhat laughable that the word was used by Justice Kennedy to uphold the idea that women get to decide to abort their unborn child and NOT for the unborn child itself). Anyway, the article is very interesting and somewhat prophetic in it's scope, as much as any secular article can be.
Fr, AA is harsh. But if we pray and hope for God's justice, some of it will be unspeakable. Recall not only the Pillar of Salt, but what she saw.
I will watch, perhaps with morbid interest, what happens in the local Parish with prominent homosexual "ministers".
Three points: AA's analysis is spot on, particularly his elegant first post. I'd like to point out that his litany of horribles are not isolated abuses but rampant problems. As for the burning in hell, I would say that it's uncharitable, since the vast majority of them, through heretical catechesis or none at all, genuinely didn't know any better. Many of those who were responsible for that catechesis genuinely didn't know any better, and others genuinely believed they were doing the right thing. But those modernists who deliberately set out to undermine the faith . . . I think it quite likely that God could say of them "it would have been better if a millstone had been tied around their necks." A very orthodox priest once noted that more Catholics (perhaps more people in general) today are going to go to heaven than ever before because at their judgment they will genuinely be able to say "I didn't know." And those who deliberately didn't teach them, at the very least, are presuming terribly on God's mercy. Reminds me of the non-sequitur in the following syllogism: "If gay sex is a sin, and all if sins are forgiven, then gay sex is OK."
Second point: Silly Sedevacantist, is it possible that the sky, or at least a big chunk of it, has fallen already, and it did so so gradually that you haven't noticed? See my preceding paragraph. The one thing that hasn't happened is wide-scale public martyrdom, though many orthodox Catholics suffer little martyrdoms everyday from modern culture (and from their fellow so-called Catholics). The fact is that arguments have already been put forward both by legal scholars and litigants in favor of forcing religious institutions to perform same-sex weddings on the grounds that officiants are state actors and thus bound not to discriminate. I can provide links to a few scholarly articles and court cases if you're interested--just let me know. I think it's just a matter of time.
Third point: Fr. McDonald, when you say mention polygamists, I have actually been advocating for the state to allow polygamous marriages. My argument is that polygamy has a much stronger historical and cultural pedigree than same-sex marriage; that the one thing common to _all_ historical marriage is the involvement, not of one man and one woman, but of at least one man and at least one woman. Yesterday's ruling did away with that commonality; a fortiori, then, it can and should permit polygamy. If Kennedy really believes in the "right to define one's own concept of existence, of meaning, of the universe, and of the mystery of human life," then he's being hypocritical to keep stressing that marriage is about couples, i.e. to extend marriage to the LGBT community, which is probably very left-leaning, and not to polygamists, who are probably strongly right-leaning. Equality for the left but not for the right isn't equality.
The truth of the matter is that no matter what the Supreme Court has said, no matter what the states say, no matter what laws are passed in reality there is no marriage because the "union" of two people of the same sex is totally barren. Homosexual "unions" are going nowhere. Two people of the same sex are incapable of creating a child together. So the idea of marriage is just a nonsense. It is no different in reality to a civil "union". Homosexuals and lesbians can push the point as much as they like but the reality is the emperor has no clothes and we all know that.
In truth the majority of people who go along with same sex marraige also know that the whole thing is farcical. The idea of passing this law is an endeavour by homosexuals and lesbians to normalise something that can never be normal and, as the Bishops have said, “Just as Roe v. Wade did not settle the question of abortion over 40 years ago, Obergefell v. Hodges does not settle the question of marriage today,” said the bishops. “Neither decision is rooted in the truth, and as a result, both will eventually fail.”
In the meantime, though, I can certainly see now there will be a push to force priests to marry homosexual and lesbian couples (and I think we should avoid this term gay and say it as it is). I think Fr McD is right that perhaps the Church should now opt out of being marriage celebrants and instead be present only for the Sacrament of Marriage. In that way priests could legitimately refuse any form of pressure to "marry" homosexuals and lesbians because they would be regarded as being in mortal sin and so, therefore, the priest would be within his rights to refuse.
Of course the late Cardinal George is on record as saying that he would die in his bed, his successor would die in prison and his successor would be shot in the marketsquare - such a thing happening is becoming more and more likely as the years go by.
I might add that in my country the law was passed allowing homosexual and lesbian "marriage" over a year ago and was voted for by National, Labour and Green politicians, with a small minority voting against it. At least the law passed does permit priests and ministers from having to take part in homosexual, lesbian "marriages" for religious reasons. But no doubt there will be an attempt in a few years' time to change that law to make it a criminal offence not to official at such "marriages".
For anyone who is interested in Cardinal George's quote:
"Cardinal George confirmed that he said it, and also adds that the quote has most frequently been used without his important follow-up sentence.
Here's the salient section from the Cardinal's column.
"Speaking a few years ago to a group of priests, entirely outside of the current political debate, I was trying to express in overly dramatic fashion what the complete secularization of our society could bring," writes the Cardinal. "I was responding to a question and I never wrote down what I said, but the words were captured on somebody’s smart phone and have now gone viral on Wikipedia and elsewhere in the electronic communications world. I am (correctly) quoted as saying that I expected to die in bed, my successor will die in prison and his successor will die a martyr in the public square. What is omitted from the reports is a final phrase I added about the bishop who follows a possibly martyred bishop: 'His successor will pick up the shards of a ruined society and slowly help rebuild civilization, as the church has done so often in human history.' What I said is not 'prophetic' but a way to force people to think outside of the usual categories that limit and sometimes poison both private and public discourse."
Read more: http://www.ncregister.com/blog/tim-drake/the-myth-and-the-reality-of-ill-die-in-my-bed/#ixzz3eHBzW9EI
I believe Cardinal George was prophetic in this statement.
A couple of years ago one of the American Cardinals re-read part of a sermon given by St Pope John Paul II the Great in which he said that the Church was about to go through a great chastisement, that it was too late to prevent it but that it could be mitigated through prayer.
Before being elected Pope on a visit to the US he stated, "We are now standing in the face of the greatest historical confrontation humanity has gone through. I do not think that wide circles of the American society or wide circles of the Christian community realize this fully. We are now facing the final confrontation between the Church and the anti-Church, of the Gospel and the anti-Gospel. This confrontation lies within the plans of divine providence. It is a trial which the whole Church . . . must take up." Apparently this address was widely disseminated after his election to the papacy, when it was republished in the November 9, 1978, issue of The Wall Street Journal.
So, we can expect very difficult times ahead.
it is rather silly how the LGBT and feminist movements view biology. On the one hand they like to argue that biology dictates certain things--e.g., a woman has the right to control her own body and no man can tell her otherwise, there is a gay gene, etc.--and in the same breath try to deny the biological dictates of evolution, e.g., marriage doesn't have reproduction at its root, women are exactly the same as men, etc.
Angry - You are hardly in a position to claim that someone has taken a "cheap shot" at you. That is your stock in trade here with the people who disagree with you.
Anony Miss, my shots are well-aimed and to the point. If they weren't, you would not holler so loud.
I find Fr MacDonald's title a bit naive if not amusing: "The emergence of a new state religion..." The Catholic Church has been fighting with the state since day one, when Jesus said to render unto Caesar what is Caesar's, and to God what is God's. The problem is that the state has rarely accepted the Church's line on where God and State divide, always trying to get more of the Church's side. And this includes USA.
When Catholics started immigrating to USA they were not treated particularly warmly. That is because USA had a majority of heretics, heathen, and pagans, the HHPs. And it still does. The HHPs control the media, the education, and the political landscape. With such power over the mind, it is just a matter of time before Catholics become HHPs themselves.
In this respect, I also find the Catholic Church in USA quite naive after Vatican II, thinking that an openness or ecumenism would bring a sort of paradise for Catholics in USA. She should have pursued her missionary duties with a greater vigor than ever, but that is another story after having lost her fold.
As for flag waving conservative Catholics, I have a question: "Are you an American first, or a Catholic first?"
Silly Sedevacantist at 8:05 a.m.:
“Yesterday, it wasn't the end of the world, but apparently, today is.”
I agree – bit of a tension there.
I think Cardinal George's successors are probably safe, at least until AA becomes Pope.
Because we all love to play the victim card, martyrdom is always coming to the U.S. but never seems to get here.
Just as "the next Pope" has been expected to "flee Rome over the bodies of his brothers" at least since the time of Nostadamus.
But since the Pope has survived schisms, the Ottoman Empire, the Reformation, Europe's revolutions, the Communists and the Nazis, I suspect the Catholic clergy will survive secular gay marriage just fine.
TT, no, there will be no martyrdom. The Church and the culture will quietly, passively surrender to the progressivist/secular onslaught…unless enough people like me form a nationwide, organized, and aggressive/ruthless bloc to resist it. Right now, I don't see any signs of that, but it is certainly in many conservative minds. The degradation of our culture has gone so far that I believe any serious corrective will involve violence, extreme division among conservative/liberal states and the government. I am not sure today's issue of patriot has the guts to do what it will take to fix things. Anyway, lock and load just in case.
"This is the way the world ends,
This is the way the world ends,
Not with a bang, but a whimper."
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