Facing and listening to God together…
There is nothing fraternal about the McCarrick protege’s letter
Roma locuta, causa finita
A Bernadin protege need I say more
While it's cold comfort, I suspect that in the long run, the more that the masks fall from certain people the better. Only those who already have a seething hatred for people attached to the extraordinary form could see the actions of Gregory and friends as justified. Everyone else is going to be justly horrified by the grave scandal of a pope who, in contradiction to his two immediate predecessors, suddenly decides that the 1962 missal does not express the faith of the church, and of his lackeys using this as an excuse to destroy communities that have been around for decades.
They will drive everyone to SSPX like me a new Florida Man. Georgia has gone down the tubes and will be worse when Abrams steals the election
Alfred,Precisely. The empty cassocks have lost the debate and the hearts of the last vestige of faithful Catholics. These mental midgets are sad little men
“Georgia has gone down the tubes and will be worse when Abrams steals the election.”As I hope everyone who follows this Blog understands, I am nonpartisan and a fan of neither the Democratic nor the Republican Party, but this Trumpian “heads I win, tails you lose” approach to elections is wearing a bit thin now, no? Hopefully, then, the above statement was uttered in jest.
P.S. Either way, it is a very dangerous game to play—unless of course one doesn’t care about preserving our Republic. I hope everyone can see this and does care, however—especially Catholics who should be devoted to the truth instead of the Big Lie and other, related lies.
Mark,Indeed. The Big Lie is “abortion is healthcare.”
TJM:Abortion IS healthcare for women. But is also a death sentence for the unborn human being developing inside her womb. So, both things can be true at the same time. The labels reflect two different perspectives, just like “pro-life” and “pro-choice.”But let’s not distract yet again. Keep your eye on the ball at hand—Trump’s Big Lie about the 2020 election. How many Trump supporters and allies will it take who say he is wrong and that Biden won the election fair and square for him to stop? We all know the answer, don’t we? He won’t. And FOX News just aids and abets the crime by refusing to air Thursday evening’s January 6 hearing on prime time. What does it do instead? It has the “evildoer” Tucker Carlson spreading more evil lies and distortions about Covid-19 vaccinations—and they were evil lies and distortions; I fact checked every evil lie he told.TJM: You and I will disagree about several things, I am sure. But please, please, if you care about our Republic at all, be like Rusty Bowers, the Arizona House Speaker who told the TRUTH during the January 6 hearings. He still supports Trump but rejects the Big Lie (for which of course the craven Arizona GOP censured him—how shameful and disgusting!). Bowers is a man I can admire, even though I will disagree with him on some matters of policy:“Bowers, a lifelong Republican and the speaker of the Arizona state House, detailed in blunt terms the pressure campaign led by Donald Trump to get him to say that the 2020 election in the state was fraudulent. He said that Trump had lied about him in a November 2020 press release, which claimed that Bowers told the then-President that he believed the election was rigged. And Bowers spoke eloquently about why he refused to cave on his belief that that Joe Biden had won the presidential race.“'It is a tenet of my faith that the Constitution is divinely inspired, that this is my most basic foundational belief,’ said Bowers. ‘And so for me to do that because somebody just asked me to, is foreign to my very being. I will not do it.’“His testimony was among the most memorable offered by any witness called to date by the House select committee investigating January 6.“And now he is paying the price for it.“On Tuesday, the Arizona Republican Party executive committee formally censured Bowers. ‘He is no longer a Republican in good standing & we call on Republicans to replace him at the ballot box in the August primary,’ tweeted state party chairwoman Kelli Ward.”See https://www.cnn.com/2022/07/20/politics/rusty-bowers-censure-arizona-republican-party-jan-6/index.htmlYes, the Democratic Party is corrupt. But the Republican Party is also corrupt, in a different way—a way that represents a mortal threat to our Republic. A pox on both their houses! If we cannot do better, we do not deserve freedom, and so we will lose it.
"Do not allow yourselves to be deceived by the cunning statements of those who persistently claim to wish to be with the Church, to love the Church, to fight so that people do not leave Her . . . but judge them by their works. If they despise the shepherds of the Church and even the Pope, if they attempt all means of evading their authority in order to elude their directives and judgments . . . then about which Church do these men mean to speak? Certainly not about that established on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the cornerstone." Pope Pius X, Allocution of May 10, 1909, AAS 463-464.
Mark,Only in Orwell’s world is abortion healthcare.Jonathan Turley disagrees with you on January 6th
Mark,In all seriousness the Democratic Party and the Media (but I repeat myself) are the real threat to the Republic, not the Republicans. The Democrats unleash their violent demons (Antifa, BLM) any time a legal ruling does not go their way, such as we just saw with the Dodd case. If you can cite an example of a Republican mob reacting in this way, I would be happy to enterain your evidence.But as for this "hearing" here is another take:"As Jonathan Turley noted, they haven’t laid out anything for any kind of criminal case against Trump.Yet, on the eve of the primetime hearing this week, committee members sound strikingly less prosecutorial. Rep. Elaine Luria (D-Va.) told CNN that “I look at it as a dereliction of duty. He didn’t act. He did not take action to stop the violence.”It is difficult to make a criminal case over what an official failed to do.This is what they’re left with, even with a completely biased presentation by the Committee — all the members appointed by House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and all are very anti-Trump, including the two Republicans that she picked exactly for that reason.What the Committee hasn’t done is be fair in the presentation or present the evidence that goes against their ridiculous claims about Trump."This is a show trial, like the Communists of old were famous for conducting. As a law professor you know that.
Fr MJKThank you for posting the quotation from Pius X. It was, of course, directed against what he saw as the Modernist heresy, and even those who admire Pius's saintly qualities have to admit that the anti-Modernist witch-hunt went too far, blighting academic careers and stultifying the intellectual life of the Church for decades. Despite his personal humility, he had an over-exalted view of the papacy, which is why Mark Thomas is so fond of quoting him.What he would have made of the current state of the Church is anyone's guess. The Modernists are in control at every level and we have a Pontiff who seems hell-bent on destroying the institution he was elected to defend. It is without precedent, but some would no doubt argue that 'just because it hasn't been done before doesn't mean it shouldn't be done now'.
Mark,One last thing:"We have put together I think the most extensive and inclusive voter fraud organization in the history of American politics.” - Joe BidenObama69,000,000 votesWins 873 CountiesWins 18 of 19 Bellwether countiesWins Florida, Ohio, and IowaWINS House seatsTrump* 74,000,000 votesWins 2497 CountiesWins 18 of 19 Bellwether countiesWins Florida, Ohio, and IowaWINS House seatsBiden* 81,000,000 votesWins 477 CountiesLOSES 18 of 19 Bellwether countiesLOSES Florida, Ohio, and IowaLOSES House seatsI think these facts are why so many question the last presidential election.
First, the Biden quote has been fact checked by Reuters. The claim is false. "VERDICTMissing context. This clip of Biden allegedly “admitting” to voter fraud has been shared out of context. As seen in the full interview, the former vice president was discussing his campaign’s voter protection program." fact-check-clip-of-biden-taken-out-of-context-to-portray-him-as-plotting-a-voter-fraud-scheme-idUSKBN27E2VHSecond, counties don't vote, individual voters do. Were a candidate to win ONE county with 999 voters and his oppenent to win TEN counties with 998 voters, the candidate with just one county wins the election. "Counties" is a smokescreen. To vote a person must 1. Be a citizen. Counties are not citizens. End of the "counties" duiscussion.Third, the counties won by Biden have 67 more citizens than the counties won by tRump. https://www.brookings.edu/blog/the-avenue/2021/01/21/a-demographic-contrast-biden-won-551-counties-home-to-67-million-more-americans-than-trumps-2588-counties/The "facts" presented are not facts at all. So many question the last presidential election because they have been seduced by tRump and they have chosen to believe his lies. No amount of data will convince those who have been taken in by the charlatan who was formerly a government employee and who resided at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue in Washington, DC.
TJM:Well, that’s an easy one—the January 6 mob. When almost three dozen legal rulings about election challenges did not go their way. Next question.In other cases, perhaps the Republican Trumpists did not need a mob when a legal ruling did not go their way. Some of us remember that Trump himself unleashed the ire of the Presidency upon the hapless judge(s) every time a legal ruling did not go HIS way. For us, this unbecoming conduct has not disappeared down the memory hole!No, the January 6 Committee is not a “show trial.” It is the presentation of evidence by one side—making out a case for prosecution as might be done before a Grand Jury. We will see what the A.G. does with it. But so far at least, it looks pretty damning to me. So, I disagree with Turley. The A.G. will have to review the totality of the evidence and if he thinks the Justice Department can prove a criminal case beyond a reasonable doubt, he will have to make the extremely difficult and delicate decision whether to prosecute Trump, do nothing, or take some other action (I have some ideas about that). I do not envy him at all.Now let me be completely clear about all this. I consider Trump’s conduct over the 2020 election (and much else besides) to be absolutely appalling. But I would be equally appalled, perhaps even more appalled (if such were possible) if he had been a Democrat (because I would expect better, even from the Democrats). I have no doubt at all about that. You don’t have to believe me, of course. But my conscience is clear. I am devoted to neither party, but to principles and values—very Catholic principles and values, by the way—that transcend party. I have set it all out in my book. I hope you can say the same about your conscience.
Mark,A nice statement, but the Democratic Party is a real threat to our liberties as you can see from Alan Dershowitz, whom I know you do not care for, but he is a pre-eminent constitutional scholar.Continuing his rebuke of the House Jan. 6 Select Committee and its supporters, legal expert Alan Dershowitz lamented on Newsmax the pursuit to "get'' former President Donald Trump has Democrats and anti-Trump Republicans willing to "trash the Constitution.""There are a lot of people on my side, on the Democratic side, who say, 'It's political, it's unfair, it violates due process, and we don't give a damn — as long as you get Trump, we don't care about the Constitution,'" Dershowitz told Monday's "The Record With Greta Van Susteren.""That's professor Laurence Tribe. He's prepared to trash the Constitution to get Trump. He's prepared to destroy his entire career of advocating civil liberties by saying that Trump should be indicted for attempting to murder Vice President [Mike] Pence. I mean he's prepared, and others in the Democratic Party, are prepared to do anything."Dershowitz denounced what he sees as the Jan. 6 committee's Soviet-style "show trial" and Stalin-like justice of "show me the man, and I'll find you the crime.""That's not the way American justice is supposed to work," Dershowitz told Van Susteren. "It's not supposed to be weaponized for one party against another party."Did you find President Trump's conduct of keeping us out of new hot wars appalling? His providing minorities with their lowest uenmployment rates in history appalling? Real wage gains appalling? Being the first president to march in the Pro Life parade, was that appalling? If you care to study Joe Biden, there is plenty of evidence that he is the one who is appalling. But I guess you won't bother to look. Contra agenda.
Fr. K,You believe the Big Lie that abortion is healthcare, otherwise, you would not vote the way you do. FYI, Governor Whitmer of Michigan vetoed a bill providing money to help pregnant women in need. Abortion Uber Alles!
TJM:You are slipping again— “Contra agenda”? What agenda? Other than trying to save the Republic, rehabilitate our corrupt politics, defend the rule of law, and promote human flourishing I have no agenda. Again, read my book for proof. And if you object to such an agenda, well so be it.But you are correct—I don’t much care for celebrity law professors with their mug on the TV screen every day, whoever they are. However, I admit this may just be a personal preference that is likely culturally influenced (by the way Britain used to be during my formative years).Whatever Trump’s policy achievements may or may not have been are beside the point, just as they would be beside the point whoever the president was who engaged in the appalling behavior I mentioned. But I am hardly alone in regarding his behavior over the 2020 election appalling, am I? Look at all his former (and indeed some remaining) supporters who testified against him during the January 6 hearings. How do you explain Rusty Bowers and the many others? And look at the Wall Street Journal and the New York Post Editorial Boards who have just condemned his inaction on January 6 and, in the latter case, have said how unfit he is to be president again because of his glaring character flaws.What I find so sad—and dangerous—is that those promoting the Big Lie and related attempts to subvert the Republic do not seem to care about the mortal threat to the Republic Trump represents. And as for those Trump apologists over at FOX, I would simply say, adapting Robert Bolt’s Man for All Seasons: “But for ratings and a big, fat salary, Tucker (Sean, Laura)? For ratings and money?” The Trump Base, and the road to power and wealth they afford, is the Wales of our time.And if you have legitimate grounds for regarding Biden’s behavior as equally appalling as Trump’s, bring it on. You will get no objection from me. Just please do not mention abortion again—let’s take that as a given.
Mark, "But...for Wales?"I long ago concluded the support for Trump is a spiritual problem for a significant number of his most sycophantic followers. They have thrown in the lot with lies, bullying, bravado, and the facade of great wealth and business acumen.Ultimately, they are seduced by his evil nature and want to be him.
FrMJK, you need to get with the program as Pope Francis directs us. His Holiness just said this in Canada yesterday about President Trump and others like him:“The church, said Francis, "is and always should be — not a set of ideas and precepts to drill into people, but a welcoming home for everyone.“If the pope can embrace and not denigrate Trump and his supporters, so should you. Be inclusive and stop drilling into Trump and company!
Fr. ALLAN McDonald, the "program" as you call it is virtue. While you may find Trump et al virtuous to a fault, I would suggest that you, like his sycophantic minions and ilk, are willfully deluded.Defending the unvirtuous is unbecoming at best and damnable at worst.Your choice, a la our First Parents when they were out about in the garden with chatty serpents.
Father McDonald:Well, of course, Pope Francis is right. But isn’t he advocating following Christ’s Way of Truth, not Trump’s Way of Lies and Deceit (which is also the Devil’s way, the way of the Father of Lies, and that of others who lie, deceive, or cheat to win elections, or indeed anything else)? And isn’t Father Kavanaugh effectively urging Trump’s sycophants not to be seduced by the evil of such lies, deceptions, and cheating but instead to follow Christ’s Way of Truth? For another way of saying this, albeit not so explicitly, see my chapter 8 discussing my ideal of grassroots political conversation, which welcomes everyone who participates in it in good faith (sorry, but references to the book are a shorthand way of summarizing a complex argument, rather than rehearsing it all here).Pope Francis also said "On the cross, Christ reconciles and brings back together everything that seemed unthinkable and unforgivable; he embraces everyone and everything. Everyone and everything!" See https://www.ncronline.org/news/vatican/pope-francis-canadian-catholics-churches-should-be-open-and-inclusive.And here I would recommend another 2021 book, which is indeed explicit and which I have yet to read in full, having read only the beginning on Amazon’s “Look Inside”, as further food for thought:https://www.amazon.com/Politics-Cross-Christian-Alternative-Partisanship/dp/0802878512But I am sure you agree with all this because you cannot yourself have been seduced by such lies and deceptions as Trump and his allies propagate.
The pope wants us to be inclusive of people liars and all. But the rigid, no.
In light of this pope’s comments concerning precepts and virtues being drilled into people in order to exclude others who don’t abide, like Trump and half of the citizens of the USA, one wonders what the pope would think of a priest/pastor who denigrates and excludes Trump and his supporters, half of the country and perhaps more than half of the Catholic population here and in his parish maybe 3/4s of his parishioners. Exclusivity rather than inclusivity is to be decried and as the pope says, “The church, said Francis, "is and always should be — not a set of ideas (doctrines) and precepts (morals and virtues) to drill into people, but a welcoming home for everyone.“Everyone means everyone, the rapists and mass murderers to Trump and friends.
Fr. ALLAN McDonald, you are beginning to produce word salad.tRump is welcome in any church, but as an admitted sinner in need of forgiveness and reconciliation like the rest Inasmuch as he has said he doesn't ask God for forgiveness...
That’s good to know since your obsession with Trump’s corruption and claims of a stolen election is not shown to other far more serious corruption and the tragedy of infant genocide that Pelosi, Biden and about 99% of democrats corrupted by their ideologies of genocide promote non stop as a right. Most of us would like to see you call that out in the most obsessive ways along with Trump’s disorders which mitigate against full culpability in the eyes of God.
Father McDonald,With respect, there is no need to call out Biden, Pelosi, and other Democrats over abortion on this Blog. Others, including you, do it ALL the time. As I said in my response to TJM, it is a given. What is needed is for someone to call out Trump because Father Kavanaugh and I seem virtually the only ones willing to do that. One must wonder why. Is it that people support Trump despite the mortal threat to the Republic he represents, that people think he is not such a threat, or that they just do not see it?
"I long ago concluded the support for Trump is a spiritual problem for a significant number of his most sycophantic followers. They have thrown in the lot with lies, bullying, bravado, and the facade of great wealth and business acumen." You could just as easily fashion a statement like this and apply it to the Clintons, Obamas, and Bidens. All I know is that Trump's policies benefited the lower classes where none of these grifters policies have.Mark,I am disappointed that you can so breazily waive off so many solid accomplishments of President Trumps, like no new hot wars and the lower classes seeing improvement in their standard of living. Did you find the well documented stories of Bill Clinton's dirty dealings in the Oval Office appalling? I don't recall that when Trump was president a Blue Dress emerged
TJM Says: "I don't recall that when Trump was president a Blue Dress emerged"Blue dresses: Three marriages, indicating that he did not and dies not believe in the indissolubility of marriage and that he lied when he said "Til death do us part."Crimes Committed in Connection with Ukraine Abuses - Bribery (18 U.S.C. § 201); Soliciting foreign campaign contributions (52 U.S.C. §§ 30109, 30121); Coercion of political activity (18 U.S.C. § 610); Misappropriation of federal funds (18 U.S.C. § 641); and Obstruction of Congress (18 U.S.C. §§ 1505, 1512)Mounting Hatch Act Violations - The Office of Special Counsel has found at least 13 senior Trump aides to have violated the Hatch Act by using their official position for partisan politics.Emoluments Clause Violations - tRump illegally receiving payments from foreign and domestic governments, including through guests and events at his hotels, leases in his buildings, and eventually the federal government’s improper decision to let him maintain his lease of the Old Post Office for his DC hotel. Conflicts of Interest - Documented over 3,000 instances of Trump’s conflicts of interest since day one of his administration.Hosting the G-7 at His Own Resort - After days of intense public outrage and bipartisan backlash, Trump reversed his stance.Nepotism and Other Ethics Abuses by Ivanka and JaredCoronavirus Response: Even the President’s response to a global pandemic was not immune from his nepotism and cronyism. Despite his lack of medical or scientific expertise, Kushner has led a “shadow” coronavirus task force with private-sector representatives, using nonpublic email accounts, which CREW exposed as a violation of the Federal Records Act.Criminals in the White House - 11 of his associates have been convicvted.Corruption in the Cabinet - Interior Secretary Zinke racked up 18 investigations into his behavior including allegations of lavish spending and travel as well as whistleblower retaliation before he was forced to resign. Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross has been the subject of numerous complaints of ethical misconduct, including allegations that he made false statements to OGE when he misrepresented he divested certain stock holdings before actually doing so and that he violated the STOCK Act and other insider trading laws by engaging in short sale transactions. Health and Human Services Tom Price resigned abruptly after CREW and others exposed his inappropriate use of hundreds of thousands of dollars of taxpayer money on unnecessary private jet travel. And the list gos on: Failure to Disclose Tax Returns, Separating Children without Records to Reunite Them, Use of Private Email,But wait, there's more... January 6th violent storming of the US Capitol in order to obstruct the counting of the certified votes of the Electoral College.
TJM:I did not breezily dismiss Trump’s accomplishments. I said they were irrelevant to the issue at hand, that is, the mortal threat to the Republic that he represents. May I remind you that Hitler had many accomplishments too (and no, I am not saying Trump is as bad as Hitler, just that accomplishments do not necessarily excuse the bad stuff—after all, one could point to some accomplishments of Biden and say that therefore we should not talk about abortion, no?).And yes, I found Clinton appalling, even before the Monica Lewinsky scandal, and did not vote for him. Instead, in my first presidential election in 1996 (I did not naturalize until 1993), I wrote in the name of a conservative Democratic Senator, Sam Nunn, to make a point. You cannot label me, however hard you try as the book makes clear for everyone to see (that is, the 10 people who will read it -:)).But the bottom line in all this, TJM, is that you will support Trump come what may. This is clear to everyone. You seem to be the sort of True Believer he referred to early on—he really could shoot someone on Fifth Avenue, and you would not care. So, he can destroy the Republic and you would not care. If I am wrong about that, then please say so.
Thank you, Father Kavanaugh. I just read your last post. It’s does not paint a pretty picture of the man (I use the word "man" advisedly because for me Trump is anything but a real man).
Fr K,Yet none of those charges lodged by hyper-partisan folks stuck to President Trump. However, Bill Clinton was fined for lying and was disbarred from the practice of law. Your kind of guy.Mark,Although this article is not great, you should consider it:https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2022/jul/26/trump-in-2024-is-the-only-answer-against-the-polit/
And just to remind you again, Rupert Murdoch’s Trump supporting New York Post has had it with him. See https://nypost.com/2022/07/22/trumps-jan-6-silence-renders-him-unworthy-for-2024-reelection/:As his followers stormed the Capitol, calling for his vice president to be hanged, President Donald Trump sat in his private dining room, watching TV, doing nothing.For three hours, seven minutes.There has been much debate over whether Trump’s rally speech on Jan. 6, 2021, constituted “incitement.” That’s somewhat of a red herring. What matters more — and has become crystal clear in recent days — is that Trump didn’t lift a finger to stop the violence that followed.And he was the only person who could stop what was happening. He was the only one the crowd was listening to. It was incitement by silence.Trump only wanted one thing during that infamous afternoon: to pressure Vice President Mike Pence to decertify the election of Joe Biden. He thought the violence of his loyal followers would make Pence crack, or delay the vote altogether. To his eternal shame, as appalled aides implored him to publicly call on his followers to go home, he instead further fanned the flames by tweeting: “Mike Pence didn’t have the courage to do what should have been done to protect our Country and our Constitution.”His only focus was to find any means — damn the consequences — to block the peaceful transfer of power.There is no other explanation, just as there is no defense, for his refusal to stop the violence.It’s up to the Justice Department to decide if this is a crime. But as a matter of principle, as a matter of character, Trump has proven himself unworthy to be this country’s chief executive again._______Quite so!
TJM:I read as much of the article as I was permitted (the rest is behind a paywall). I disagree with the premise that Trump is the only alternative to the "political elites." Read my chapter 8. Moreover, assuming what I urge in Chapter 8 takes too long and cannot occur in time for the 2024 election, we still need to preserve the Republic so that we still actually have a polity in which what I advocate can work. If Trump gets back into power, however, it is likely that all bets are off, for he will doubtless try to find a way for him and his family/cronies to remain in power indefinitely.Also, I tried to post the following, but it did not seem to make it through the S.O. Gauntlet: So, here it is again:And just to remind you again, Rupert Murdoch’s Trump supporting New York Post has had it with him. See https://nypost.com/2022/07/22/trumps-jan-6-silence-renders-him-unworthy-for-2024-reelection/:As his followers stormed the Capitol, calling for his vice president to be hanged, President Donald Trump sat in his private dining room, watching TV, doing nothing.For three hours, seven minutes.There has been much debate over whether Trump’s rally speech on Jan. 6, 2021, constituted “incitement.” That’s somewhat of a red herring. What matters more — and has become crystal clear in recent days — is that Trump didn’t lift a finger to stop the violence that followed.And he was the only person who could stop what was happening. He was the only one the crowd was listening to. It was incitement by silence.Trump only wanted one thing during that infamous afternoon: to pressure Vice President Mike Pence to decertify the election of Joe Biden. He thought the violence of his loyal followers would make Pence crack, or delay the vote altogether. To his eternal shame, as appalled aides implored him to publicly call on his followers to go home, he instead further fanned the flames by tweeting: “Mike Pence didn’t have the courage to do what should have been done to protect our Country and our Constitution.”His only focus was to find any means — damn the consequences — to block the peaceful transfer of power.There is no other explanation, just as there is no defense, for his refusal to stop the violence.It’s up to the Justice Department to decide if this is a crime. But as a matter of principle, as a matter of character, Trump has proven himself unworthy to be this country’s chief executive again._______________Quite so!
Mark - What I posted was, as I am sure you know, a very partial list of tRump's failings and faults, none of which disqualify him from going to church, but do disqualify him from holding any office of public trust.We were warned. Rick Perry of Texas said in 2016 that tRump was an "unchecked demagogue" and "Donald Trump is the modern-day incarnation of the Know-Nothing movement.”Megan McArdle wrote thats ame year, "If Trump came to power, there is a decent chance that the American experiment would be over. This is not a hyperbolic prediction; it is not a hysterical prediction; it is simply a candid reading of what history tells us happens in countries with leaders like Trump."Earlier this month the edictorial board of the Wall Street Journal (no hyper-partisans there) said tRump is unworthy to hold office again. "Mr. Trump took an oath to defend the Constitution, and he had a duty as Commander in Chief to protect the Capitol from a mob attacking it in his name. He refused."“In the 18 months since, Mr. Trump has shown not an iota of regret. On Thursday he claimed to be vindicated by a bill to clarify the Electoral Count Act...Character is revealed in a crisis, and Mr. Pence passed his Jan. 6 trial. Mr. Trump utterly failed his.”Lies told to Ivana and Marla were not caused by "hyper-partisan" folks. Convictions of tRump associates were not caused by "hyper-partisan" folks.Resignations by tRump cabinet members were not caused by "hyper-partisan" folks.His barrage of lies was not caused by "hyper-partisan" folks. In my lifetime, two presidents have lied about consequential matters - Johnson about Vietnam and Nixon about Watergate - and those lies have damaged our nation for generations. tRump lied about any- and everything, from the number attending his inauguration to his weight to the area impacted by Hurricane Dorian ("Sharpie Gate") to the Strategic Petroleum Reserve ( 30 March 2022) to Pence's power over the Electoral College vote certification process (1 February 2022) to, well, you name it, he lied about it.
And because it seems to have gone down the memory hole as well, in addition to the litany of Trump's misconduct canvassed by Father Kavanaugh, let us recall that, in addition to lies and deceptions, Trump has often (always?) tried to win by cheating.He launched his political career by promoting the Obama Birther Lie.He tried to have it both ways ahead of the 2016 election—the heads I win, tails you lose argument that if he won, fine, but if he lost, the election must have been rigged.He complained about the Russia Mueller Inquiry "witch hunt," even though FBI Director Comey helped Trump and hurt Hillary Clinton by publicly "reopening" the Clinton email investigation just before the 2016 election but said nothing about the investigation into Trump and his campaign, and even though—despite A.G. Barr’s mischaracterization—the Mueller investigation found plenty of evidence of collusion (and, of course, of obstruction of justice). (There was insufficient evidence, however, to prove a criminal conspiracy or coordination of the Trump campaign with Russia beyond a reasonable doubt (likely because Manafort and Stone lied and/or refused to cooperate, knowing Trump would pardon them).And he has tried, and is still trying, to win the 2020 election by cheating in the form of the Big Lie.Trump is so corrupted that by now he seems to know no other way to be. Heck, he even cheats at golf—all the time!https://www.amazon.com/Commander-Cheat-Golf-Explains-Trump/dp/0316528080At one extreme there is Trump. At the other there is Bobby Jones, a real man. I know which one I will take as a model and an ideal, even though I will doubtless fall short of such virtue. Give me Bobby Jones any day!https://characterandleadership.com/bobby-jones-honesty/
Mark and FRMJK, everyone here knows and believes you about all of the sins and peccadilloes of President Trump. That’s why he is loved so much because so many people identify with him and his duplicity. People are sinners and about half the country or more are like him and because of that they like him. He connects with them even though he is a billionaire. He doesn’t act like one. He’s down to earth. There are some redeemable elements in this man, though. He kept us out of war. He dialogued with North Korea, the economy was strong and the poor in our midst did well under him. We can’t say the same about the current corrupt regime and their party of death and genocide.
Fr. ALLAN McDonald - You falsely equate lying, vulgarity, racism, braggadocio, disloyalty to allies, self-aggrandizement, and fascist tendencies with "being down to earth."A person who is down to earth thinks before he speaks. Trump just bloviates.A person who is down to earth speaks for what is right. Trump speaks for what he wants.A person who is down to earth converses with depth. Trump has the depth of mud puddle.A person who is down to earth doesn't pay attention to gossip. Trump is extremely thin-skinnned and offended by ANY negative comments.A person who is down to earth is comfortable being alone. Trump must ALWAYS be the center of attention.A person who is down to earth sees what is under the surface. Trump, the transactionalist, is incapable of seeing beyond the moment he is in.A person who is down to earth is concerned about the well-being of others. Trump is perfectly egomaniacal.A person who is down to earth doesn't flaunt their achievements. Trump lives for putting his name up in GIANT letters for everyone to see.Yes, As I have said all along, many people are seduced by the behavior they see in Trump. The problem is, they are drawn to all his faults and sins and want to live them in their lives.As for North Korea, Trump's dialogue - at least 25 letters exchanged - did nothing to reduce the threat that nation poses. "In the end, Trump clearly failed to turn the North Korea nuclear situation into a personal success that could be attributed to his talents as a negotiator and personal relationship with the country’s leader. Despite being in direct contact and having regular correspondence, their closeness – whether real or exaggerated – was no match for North Korea’s strategic realism. While Trump was able to avoid war with North Korea, the country now has significant nuclear capabilities. Despite sanctions and the pandemic, it has been able to develop new ICBMs.
And as for tRump's "dialogue" with North Korea, this is the report TODAY (28 July 2022) about that nation."Kim Jong-un says North Korea ready to mobilise nuclear forces"https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-62329125
As for tRump not acting like a billionaire, here are a few of his non-billionaire acting homes:Mar-al-Lago, FL 128 roomstRump Tower Penthouse, NT 33,000 square feet, valued at well over $100 millionSeven Springs, Bedford, NY 60 rooms, estimated value $24 million accd to FORBEStRump Winery, Charlottesville, VA 1100 acres, 45 roomsTwo more homes in Sterling, VAMansion, Greenwich, CTLe Château des Palmiers, St. Martin 9 bedrooms and 12 full bathroomsBalmedie estate, Macleod House, a 1,400-acre plot just north of Aberdeen, ScotlandOh, and let's not mention tRump's non-billionaire acting private jet, just a little Boeing 757. "He doesn’t act like one." Oh, pleeeze......
There you go again obsessing on what we all know. Just in case you missed it, there was a peaceful transition of power on Inauguration Day and Trump has not been the president for a year and. Half. President Biden I’d the president and the dems want him out, not because of his well known corruption but because he’s not up to the job and the republicans will sweep the house and senate in a few months time. All this Trump stuff is a corrupt, fowl smokescreen to distract from the disaster that the dems know Biden is, not to mention his VP.
Fr. ALLAN McDonald - I feel like Lt. Kaffee questioning Col. Jessup in "A Few Good Men" here...If, as you say, you already knew that tRump was not a "down-to-earth person" and if you already knew that he does act like a billionaire, the why, Colonel, er, Fr. McDonald, did you say he was down-to-earth and that he doesn't act like a billionaire?Why the duplicity, Fr. ALLAN?Well, we all know what Col. Jessup's disingenuousness got him.
Father Kavanaugh: I share your frustration.I had a hard time believing Father McDonald’s posts. I thought about just giving up because after reading what he wrote discussion seems hopeless, but I would be failing in my duty were I to do that and so I join you in continuing.Father McDonald: Is Trump redeemable, then, but Joe Biden not redeemable?And the transition of power on January 6 was hardly “peaceful,” with Trump supporters invading the Capitol and threatening to hang Mike Pence. But anyone watching only FOX News would know nothing of these things because they have "cancelled" the January 6 Committee (except during the day when most of their viewers cannot watch). The evidence of Trump’s horrible character flaws is relevant not only for judging his fitness for office, but—and this is the main point I was trying to make—because it demonstrates the mortal threat to the Republic and the Rule of Law he represents. He will continue to cheat in any way he can to regain power—and if he can find a way for that power to be absolute, he will do that too (for example, by placing his loyalists throughout all the branches of the federal and state governments and/or by finding a pretext to declare martial law. According to an Axios report a week ago, he had apparently already attempted the former regarding the federal government shortly before the 2020 election. See https://www.axios.com/2022/07/22/trump-2025-radical-plan-second-term).Regarding the Trump card of abortion, some people may want to live under an authoritarian dictator ruling a regime in which abortion is banned in a futile attempt to end it. I do not. I want to live in a democratic Republic in which citizens engage in self-government and engage in respectful political conversation as they seek to persuade one another, and in which abortion becomes an unthinkable option because women and children receive the support they need to flourish, both from the community and from the government, as appropriate.And yes, we are all sinners. I know many good people who support Trump. The last thing I would do is write them off as “deplorables” or some other dismissive label. No, I want Trump supporters and Trump opponents to come together and take our country back from the oligarchical elites who rule it and who have sought to divide us (including especially Trump and his oligarchic cronies) so that we can get to know one another better, end the mutual demonization and rehumanize one another, and chart our future course together. Is this idealistic? Yes, but I believe it is an ideal that is very consistent with our Faith and well worth striving for.
Mark - Oh, now you are "obsessing" on tRump's "peccadilloes" as Fr. ALLAN McDonald has called them. (Never mind that a peccadillo is a relatively unimportant offense while tRump's attempting to thwart the will of the people with an assault in the Capitol and numerous bogus elector schemes is anything but unimportant.)Of course, Fr. ALLAN McDonald has his own obsessions - the Benedictine altar arrangement, for instance.I fear that there are not a few who ARE willing to abandon our representative democracy, a very good thing, if it means they get what they (think) want. Isn't that how the Chatty Serpent seduced Eve and Adam? "I'll tell you want you want, why you should want it, and how to get it. All you have to do is give up . . . Paradise!"
You don’t have to agree with them, but here are two articles I have just read that certainly provide food for thought. The first one sees America’s choice as being between oligarchy (represented by the establishment in both the Democratic and Republican parties) and authoritarianism (represented by Trump and the Trumpists); the second argues that Trump is himself part of the oligarchy:https://www.salon.com/2021/09/28/americas-fate-looks-bleak-will-it-be-oligarchy-or-autocracy/https://www.newsweek.com/united-states-oligarchy-opinion-1575266I do not necessarily agree with the ideological prescriptions in the second article but argue for another way forward, rejecting all ideology, of the Left or the Right, although that way could well result in some of the solutions set out in those prescriptions but on a much sounder basis.
Even King David was corrupt, but God did not poke fun at him or write his redemption off.
To clarify, I should amend the first paragraph of my 5:48 p.m. post as follows:You don’t have to agree with them, but here are two articles I have just read that certainly provide food for thought. The first one sees America’s choice as being between oligarchy (represented by the establishment elements in both the Democratic and Republican parties) and authoritarianism (represented by Trump and the Trumpists in the Republican Party); the second argues that Trump is himself part of the oligarchy:
We know that King David was used by God for the furtherance of His plan of salvation because Sacred Scripture tells us it is so.We do NOT know that tRump is being used by God to further some divine plan, so...Comparing Granny Smiths with Valencias... Never a successful ploy.
EXACTLY! YOU DON’T know and you will not know until your last four things, death, judgement, heaven or hell; not that I am comparing the last two possibilities for you.
Maybe God was using Bonnie and Clyde, Josef Mengele, Timothy McVeigh. YOU DON'T KNOW !You can make all sorts of suppositions, but that''s all they are. Defending tRump by saying "God might be using him like he used King David" is baseless.
I am quite puzzled by the King David argument, or rather by its apparent selective application. Why not Joe Biden? If one uses the deaths of innocents as the distinguishing characteristic, a very good case can be made that Trump was also responsible for the death of tens of thousands of innocents (this time, actually born innocents) because of his bungling of the Administration’s response to the Covid-19 pandemic (I am not talking about Operation Warp Speed but about the period before the vaccines became available, although Trump reflected and instantiated a rot that had sent in before him). Lest we forget, see, e.g.:https://johnmenadue.com/fintan-otoole-donald-trump-has-destroyed-the-country-he-promised-to-make-great-again-irish-times-25-4-2020/In fact, when I read your comment about King David, I thought you had both in mind. Did you? Or did you mean only Trump?
Mark - a very good piece on this very inappropriate comparison between King David and the 45th president: https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/12/donald-trump-modern-day-king-david/602830/ It read in part: "At its core, the David comparison is, in fact, sacrilegious. “Cursed be the man who trusts in humans, and makes mortal flesh his strong arm,” Jeremiah declares in the name of the Lord. The worship of power or of wealth is an affront, in the eyes of the Bible, to the Master of the Universe. It is a perversion of scripture to use it to celebrate a king, or indeed, a president, and particularly one whose character is flawed beyond repair.What the David analogizers are unintentionally showing us is how swiftly religion used to serve the ends of politics becomes twisted and corrupted. We see this corruption of religion in its more monstrous forms in places like the Islamic Republic of Iran, but in a small way, it is felt in the United States today by preachers who celebrate unrepentant sinners."
Thank you for the link to the Atlantic article, Father Kavanaugh. I agree that the author makes a very persuasive case regarding the inappropriateness of facile comparisons between King David and our current political leaders!
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