Pope Francis and no pope are psychological therapists and we can ignore or receive diagnoses they might make in this realm. Post Vatican II veneration of psychology as a cure all has led to the scandal the Church is still cleaning up and the pain and suffering of so many laity.
Press Crux title for implied insights into this pope and his ethos:
25 comments:
Maybe he knows Argentina does not want him! I guess after living through the Perons you would need help!
Without knowing what is the cause of this self exile I can still imagine the pain it must cause him is great. I have had only two interactions with psychologists and they didn’t go well. Nevertheless, I think there is great value in understanding how the mind works as another aspect of our physical existence. At this time I am skeptical that psychology is being used appropriately.
So often, the Holy Father denigrates traditional Catholics for being "fundamentalist" which is a stereotype at least but he often throws in his amateur psychology calling them "rigid" and other diagnosis which he has no right to make, especially as pope.
Often I find his psychological caricatures a case of projection. But this article does help fill in the blanks of this pope who is so unusual in his papacy.
The damage wrought by psychologists let loose by design by bishops and religious orders on clergy and religious in the 1960s and 1970s led to an huge implosion in numbers. One of the main psychologists involved in this destructive effort later admitted it was a huge mistake.
2000yrs of spiritual counsel was seen as out of date, and what we needed was 100ys of ever changing psychological counsel, and a more shifting quicksand field does not exist. The main organization in Switzerland in the last few years seriously was considering classifying being a rapist as a mental disease immune from prosecution.
Although rapists and other criminals are seriously broken and defective, they mostly still have freedom of choice, and what ails them and all of society in general is infatuation with the world, and primarily a spiritual disease not treated at all, even by Christians today who are as infatuated with worldly things as anyone.
Yes, Fr. Benedict Groschell spoke of what happened to the Sister of the Immaculate Heart of Mary in Los Angeles and how psychology led to the polarization and loss of huge numbers of sisters from which they have yet to recover. And I think the psychologist who led them down this path did eventually repent of it. But the damage was done not only to them but scores of religious orders and even the secular priesthood.
However, I was thinking more about how prominent priest psychologists/psychiatrists convinced bishops who sent pathologically perverted priests to priestly psychiatric hospitals that these men were healed and could be returned to ministry and often they did so time and time again despite the evidence to the contrary that these men were sexual predators of teenage boys.
Pope Francis should not use psychological terms to call out any group in the Church and in particular traditional Catholics. He should make a theological case for it as this is the area of his competence. But there is not theological case in most instances.
No argument here as for the destructive influence of the psychologists. Both problems are two seamless garments cut from the same self-centered/self-actualization bolt of cloth where all that matters is "me and my (sigh) feeeelings."
A dog never returns to its iwn vomit
I have a psychologist “friend” who is childish and very obnoxious who spouts her liberal tenets in the most offensive manner - little self awareness. I would not trust her advice
“Pope Francis should not use psychological terms to call out any group in the Church and in particular traditional Catholics. He should make a theological case for it as this is the area of his competence. But there is not theological case in most instances.”
Absolutely, Father. And this is a behavior often exhibited by those who suffer from psychological problems themselves...fears, phobias, rationalizations for their own private history, or just plain trying to come up with something to say to fill a void in their disjointed disconnect.
Magister covered well the Pope needing and appreciating psychoanalysis, the current writer neglecting to mention Bergoglio career stymied by superiors who thought him unstable and not suited to advancement. Which happening caused Bergoglio to flee to the arms of psychologists for comfort and healing.
As for the quality of this most changeable of discipline's practitioners, in the main, everything they held as true in my youth has now been discarded in the hunt for paying new patients, and THE most screwed up people I knew in college were all psychology majors, where it was apparently a lot easier to work on other people than to work on selves.
The truth remains, though, that this last indictment is often just as applicable to many folk who profess to be Christian, and no dodging that.
All of these folks here who decry the flaws and frailties of psychology, yet, who turn around and make their own magisterial pronouncements on the psychological health of His Holiness, Pope Francis...
It is to LAUGH.
Of course the psychological health of the Holy Father is diagnosed by other "professionals" in the article posted by way of an interview by the very Holy Father himself who reveals the diagnosis. That is fascinating and I am sure a comfort to those who suffer in the same way as the Holy Father without the added burden of being pope which demands clarity, not confusion or projection of one's own issues onto others.
Anonymous You Know Who at 8:36 AM,
The Pope does a fine job of outing himself without any help. Like Father McDonald says, he engages in projection. By the by, you make plenty of your own magisterial pronouncements in a similar vein to the Pope's.
It is to LAUGH
What gives me great hope is that Francis admits he is eventually going to die. He seems like he is getting stronger with each passing year. I was starting to panic.
What is "a magesterial pronouncement on psychological health"? That is as confused a statement as the Pope using psychological terms to discuss religion, and advising all priests to have an understanding of psychology for pastoral ministry. Just like him. A subject which he considers himself somewhat an expert, having seen a psychologist for neurosis and anxiety, and read a few books. How about psychologists being priests after going to Confession and reading a few books on the religion?
The Jesuits have a fine modern understanding of psychology....20yrs ago or even 10yrs ago, psychologists agreed homosexuality was a mental problem with perhaps biological underpinnings in a few rare cases.
Now, they all agree it is a completely normal thing. These are the folk whom our pope thinks we should follow in pastoral works. Next year, they will normalize some other now verbotten behavior.
There are already major pushes in the West to decriminalize sex with minors and with assorted animals, and progressives will be with them asking priests to bless these "unions".
Not only am I declaring myself a koala on my next driver's license, but I shall be going to a local priest and asking him to witness and bless my marriage to a cabbage.
Abnormal is the new normal. Brought to you by modern psychology. And your friends, the Jesuits, fastest dying religious order in the world.
"What is "a magesterial pronouncement on psychological health"?
Well, here are the pronouncements of the pseudo-psychologists among the posters here:
"I guess after living through the Perons you would need help!" (Diagnosis - the pope needs help)
"... I can still imagine the pain it must cause him is great." (Diagnosis - the pope is in great psychological pain.)
"Often I find his psychological caricatures a case of projection." (Diagnosis - the pope is projecting.)
"...his is a behavior often exhibited by those who suffer from psychological problems themselves...fears, phobias, rationalizations for their own private history, or just plain trying to come up with something to say to fill a void in their disjointed disconnect." (Diagnosis - the pope has psychological problems - and has a 'disjointed disconnect.'"
"...and THE most screwed up people I knew in college were all psychology majors?: (Diagnosis - psychology majors were 'screwed up.'")
Yeah, these are our local psychology nay-sayers, doing their best to behave and diagnose like psychologists!
And Fr. Evans would do well to review the Book of Proverbs if he's going to attempt to use quotes therefrom: "As a dog returns to its vomit,..." Prov 26:11a.
Speaking generally, Pope Francis' descriptions over the years of that which is found among so-called "traditional" Catholics is accurate.
His Holiness has noted among certain "traditionalists" such traits as rigid thinking...the notion that they are the true guardians of doctrinal purity...lack of mercy...
In many ways, Pope Francis' assessment of "traditionalists" is mild compared to assessments offered by Cardinals Burke, and Müller.
Said Cardinals have viewed as schismatic certain "traditional" Catholics...such as the SSPX.
Cardinal Sarah has denounced the vicious anti-Pope Francis that has pervaded "traditional" Catholic groups.
Father Longenecker noted the following in regard to "traditional" Catholics:
https://cruxnow.com/church/2016/05/radical-catholic-blogs-may-be-a-cesspool-but-saying-so-wont-help/
There are reasons as to why many conservative, liberal, and moderate Cardinals and bishops have hesitated to have embraced "traditional" Catholicism.
Conversely, Pope Francis has embraced such "traditional" folks and groups as Bishop Rifan, the FSSP. and even with all their nonsense, Bishop Fellay, and the SSPX.
That is more than many conservative, liberal, and moderate Churchmen have done.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
Rereading Hugh Brogan’s “A History of the United States”, I underlined this sentence about John Winthrop :
“His religion reflected his character, as a man’s religion always does, rather than it shaped it.”
After reflecting on this claim, I attempted to apply it to certain high profile cardinals and bishops in our times, to some Catholic priests I’ve known personally and even to myself.
Anon 312, it seems you simply wish to dismiss any criticism by putting your hands over ears and saying "nyah nyah i can't HEAR youuuu!". When I personally observed the suicidal binge drinking drugging sex-addicted psychology majors in college who luuuved studying others as if rats, it was clear they had serious problems, and would be clear, even to you. That is, if you see a problem with that behavior at all.
Oh, Anon312..I forgot the sex predator drinking and drugging instructors directing grad students to easy pickings. Of course, you find that unobjectionable and beyond judgement.
Anon Now in a Huff... Did you report these psychology majors by name to authorities. Or the instructors and their grad students? No. Oh, if you did, what is the name of the college/university so we can contact them with a FOIA request. We'll need your name as well.
Or...if this is still your amateur psychologizing as I suspect, we'll soon be hearing your excuses.
Anon954.....apparently you think everything today, this minute, is as it has always been, with politically correct admin ready to throw tenured professors and entire departments to the wolves of social media.
What I describe is a fairly common college experience up until maybe 10yrs ago, if even that.
Now, it is mainly limited only to students behaving that way. And none of them were minors, and none are, now, and so I have no idea what "authorities" you think should be notified, besides the internet herd.
Surely you are not agitating to infringe on the freedom of expression of consenting adults?
Anon 9:15AM - The Pope does a fine job of outing himself without any help. Like Father McDonald says, he engages in projection. By the by, you make plenty of your own magisterial pronouncements in a similar vein to the Pope's.
Agreed - Fr McDonald knows a lot about projection and could be considered an experience by experience (although he’s just not very good at recognising it in himself)!
Now who could Supreme Pontifex be?
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