Thursday, December 13, 2012


A reader of my blog sent me a very nice email concerning my blog and also sent a link to Jesuit High School in New Orleans which has quite a stunning chapel for their school. Parishes should be so fortunate. You can look at the complete link HERE.

Here are a couple of photos of Jesuit High's chapel:
The big chapel:
And their small chapel:

And another from The New Liturgical Movement blog:
Chapel of Saint Joseph, and is located at the center of Saint Joseph High School in South Bend, Indiana:


Templar said...

Gotta love the Hitler Salute in third picture.

Anonymous said...

If you think the gesture of these lads is the same as the stiff-armed, "tight"-handed Heil Hitler salute of Nazi Germany, you do not have a good eye for gesture or human communication.

Ancil Payne

Southern Baron said...

And furthermore the arm extension, while not my preferred mode of prayer, is here being done as part of an induction into the Sodality of Our Lady, recently restored at the school. Brick by brick. Maybe they can restore an altar rail next but these things take time...

John Nolan said...

Phew. I thought for a moment they were concelebrating.

Templar said...

Ancil Payne? Aren't you dead you old Liberal hack journalist? Must be you Kavanaugh.

In any event, they may not have the arm as stiff, but they sure are acting like the mindless automatons that followed Herr Hitler to their ruin. They're raising their arms and don't know why, other than it's encouraged by their Priest, who is guilty of encouraging the abuse. A gesture which suggests priestly authority in a sacramental setting, confuses the role of the laity and the ordained minister, something prohibited by the "Instruction on Certain Questions Regarding the Collaboration of the Non-Ordained Faithful in the Sacred Ministry of Priests".

You can find that document on the Vatican website here:

Assuming your eyes don't burn when you go there of course.

Anonymous said...

To Templar:

Ancil Payne says, I am not a journalist. I am not dead. I am, I suppose, old (76 yrs.). I have no kinship or connection within known or traceable degree with anyone named Kavanaugh. I do not think that in either ecclesial matters or in secular politics I would be considered "liberal" - rather somewhat the other way.

I am aware that public liturgical blessing is not the province of a lay person. The webcite/"cited website" you gave, reached easily enough, would not for me move up or down, and so the document could not be read. I have no idea whether what the boys were doing is prohibited by the Instruction you cite, although the remark of blogger Southern Baron suggests that it is not.

In any case, I have long and consistently maintained that to guide our conduct by reference to Hitler's acrions is to allow Hitler, despite his defeat in 1945, to continue to rule.

Anonymous said...

From Ancil Payne to Templar:

"acrions" is mistype for "actions" .

Anonymous said...

To Templar:

Ancil Payne says, I have now found and read the Instruction to which you refer. In it I find no reference to or discussion of a situation such as is depicted in the third picture. If you can direct me (and other readers) to any part of the Instruction that governs a situation like this, please do so.

Please note that "acrions" in my 9:00 p.m. posting should be "actions" .

John Nolan said...

In any case, the salute was copied by Mussolini from ancient Rome. The open hand signifies that no violence is intended, unlike the cummunist clenched-fist salute.

All the same, it would be more fitting for concelebrating priests to hold out both hands, palms downwards.

Templar said...

Ancil, well my apologies if you are indeed not Kavanaugh. You will perhaps excuse my presumption since he is indeed, a) as Liberal as you can get; and b) prone to changing his name with almost every post here, invariably using the name of some notorious Liberal personage.

Article 6 of the referenced document covers "liturgical Actions" and taken as a whole it is clear that "every effort must be made" and "to avoid confusion" and "to promote proper identity" any actions which lead to confusion of the roles between the Priest and the Laity are to be avoided.

I am aware of the origins of the salute, however it is irrecoverably linked with the NAZI party for better or worse. I am not aware of any requirement in the Induction Rites for the Sodality of Our Lady that requires this gesture, for that fact, I am not aware of that requirement in any induction rite for any organization of the Catholic Church, would love to see proof of that since we're all keen on defending it. At the end of the day I don't need a Vatican Document to tell me something is wrong. Show me any proof that this form of gesture was common practice in the Church prior to Vatican II and I'll feel better about it. It's not the gesture itself at issue, that's just a symptom. It's mindless sheep following blindly. It's Our Faith, own it! Know why you do something when you do something, and don't just do something because the person next to you is doing it. The Laity shouldn't be acting as Clergy, and I'm pretty sure we all know that. Instead of defending it, admit that it's wrong. That's how the Church got into this mess, everyone sitting around and refusing to challenge Clergy when they encourage us to do what is wrong.

Anonymous said...

To Templar:

Ancil Payne says, Thank you for your response. I should apologize for the bluntness of my original statement about eye for gesture, although I stand by its substance. But the idea about "extending the hand in prayer [or blessing]" resulting in something like the Nazi salute, which I had never heard or dreamed of until within the past year, affects me somewhat as the idea of ad orientem being the "celebrant's turning his back on the people" affects many of us.

I reemphasize that being influenced by Hitler's actions is simply allowing Hitler to continue to rule. You show similar thinking when you say, on a post on a more recent thread about the killings in Connecticut, "[W]e should not give in to the fear such evil doers wish to foster in us."

Who is the "notorious Liberal personage" who you suggest in your post of Dec. 15, 9:05 a.m., might have been "Kavanaugh"'s blog handle? I am aware of a man having the same name as mine (even to the "misspelling" Ancil rather than the "more correct" Ansel=Anselm, who was a television magnate or something of the kind in Seattle and played some role in the movement which ended with the admission of Alaska to the Union in 1959. He was significantly older than I, significantly younger than my parents.