Monday, October 2, 2023



This is from Rorate Caeli:

Full Text of New Dubia Sent to Francis by Cardinals Brandmüller, Burke, Sandoval, Sarah, and Zen

Notification to Christ’s Faithful (can. 212 § 3)

Regarding Dubia Submitted to 

Pope Francis

Brothers and Sisters in Christ,

We, members of the Sacred College of Cardinals, in accord with the duty of all the faithful “to manifest to the sacred pastors their opinion on matters which pertain to the good of the Church” (can. 212 § 3) and, above all, in accord with the responsibility of Cardinals “to assist the Roman Pontiff … individually … especially in the daily care of the universal Church” (can. 349), in view of various declarations of highly-placed Prelates, pertaining to the celebration of the next Synod of Bishops, that are openly contrary to the constant doctrine and discipline of the Church, and that have generated and continue to generate great confusion and the falling into error among the faithful and other persons of good will, have manifested our deepest concern to the Roman Pontiff. By our letter of July 10, 2023, employing the proven practice of the submission of dubia [questions] to a superior to provide the superior the occasion to make clear, by his responsa [responses], the doctrine and discipline of the Church, we have submitted five dubia to Pope Francis, a copy of which is attached. By his letter of July 11, 2023, Pope Francis responded to our letter.

Having studied his letter which did not follow the practice of responsa ad dubia [responses to questions], we reformulated the dubia to elicit a clear response based on the perennial doctrine and discipline of the Church. By our letter of August 21, 2023, we submitted the reformulated dubia, a copy of which is attached, to the Roman Pontiff. Up to the present, we have not received a response to the reformulated dubia.

Given the gravity of the matter of the dubia, especially in view of the imminent session of the Synod of Bishops, we judge it our duty to inform you, the faithful (can. 212 § 3), so that you may not be subject to confusion, error, and discouragement but rather may pray for the universal Church and, in particular, the Roman Pontiff, that the Gospel may be taught ever more clearly and followed ever more faithfully.

                                   Yours in Christ,

           Walter Cardinal Brandmüller

           Raymond Leo Cardinal Burke

           Juan Cardinal Sandoval Íñiguez

           Robert Cardinal Sarah

           Joseph Cardinal Zen Ze-kiun

Rome, 2 October 2023


(Submitted July 10, 2023)

Read more »


TJM said...

Pope Mercy is too busy to show common courtesy. After all there are perverts who come first and more Churches to empty!

rcg said...

It is good that these bishops capture these questions that are in the minds of many Catholics around the world. That’s all that will come of it.

Daniel said...

TJM and RCG,

I have no choice but to bite my tongue and give a sad smile when I know at our local private Catholic school teenagers are taught the mantra:

I love Pope Francis because he loves every one...🤔

By the way, I wonder sometimes just how bad or worse it has to get with the VAST bulk of young people who can spend up to 6 years at such "Catholic" schools have given up any practice of the faith aged about 21?

Daniel said...

While bad, at times bizarre, modern liturgy is a serious matter - what I think is even worse is when for millions the concept of sin becomes an anachronism!!

ByzRus said...

How, possibly, can they have any questions?

I thought ALL was wonderful in its wonderfulness.

Additionally, I thought ALL was guided by the Holy Spirit.

Additionally, I thought Fr. Ratzinger made clear his position during the 1960s.

Add some holy quotes here.

Those who diverge, or question, hate PF, VII, the Holy Spirit, Synodality and, clearly, are filled with satan.

Maybe, as another poster here has insights clearly lost on these clerics, he should be tasked with providing the response?


TJM said...


No Pope Francis does not love everyone. He hates faithful, TLM Cathoiics. When my daughters brought home similar BS from school, I set them straight!

Daniel said...


I am old enough to recall a fairly traditional first confession, first communion and confirmation; I believe it has been all down hill since about the early 70s when former nuns, ex priests etc started, for example, almost barking orders that communion on the hand, guitars, felt banners and an often puerile liturgy etc had to be - as these and a dozen plus other novelties were mandated because of THE Council V2.

Mark Thomas said...

Daniel, in regard to whether Pope Francis loves everybody:

We are called to love Pope Francis. We are called to treat Pope Francis with respect. In radical fashion, Jesus Christ calls us to repay hatred with love.

Pope Francis is a child of God. His Holiness was created in God's image.

Regardless as to that which may be in his heart, we are called to treat Pope Francis with love and dignity. That is the way of Jesus Christ.


Mark Thomas

Daniel said...


As Christians we should love everyone in the sense of wishing them well, being willing to pray for them and in no way desiring them harm etc. However, it is possible to love any person (be it a politician, a bishop or a difficult immature etc brother or cousin and so on) in this sense while disagreeing with a lot of their beliefs and being convinced his or her acts and deeds do more harm than good; sometimes a lot more harm than good!

ByzRus said...

Catholics are called to respect the pope acknowledge the importance of his office and accept ex cathrdra teachings.

Catholics may both be critical of the pope and disagree with his personal opinions so long as acknowledgement of his office and due respect remain.

Love for both pope and man should seemingly come from scripture. See 1 Cor 13:4-8

Among what scripture guides us to do is "rejoice with the truth".

Daniel said...

Finally, Mark, we could soon reach the stage of a Sin-Odd on the Synods on Synodality. We can all pray for Francis or any bishop in the world and wish them well YET still recognise we have entered into a situation that is almost farcical.

Mark Thomas said...

Daniel, I agree that we are able to disagree with this or that person in charitable fashion.

Pope Francis is open to frank, honest, charitable dialogue. Unfortunately, here, and elsewhere, there are folks who are keen to spew verbal venom at the Vicar of Christ.

Said folks attempt often to justify their nasty, vile verbal assaults in question via the following formula.

"Pope Francis hates traditionalists. I am a traditionalist. Therefore, Bergoglio hates me. As such is the, hear this, Bergoglio!"

Then, the vile, hateful attacks begin against His Holiness.

The good news is that the overwhelming amount of the Holy People of God love and respect Pope Francis. Therefore, folks here, and elsewhere, who spew verbal venom at Pope Francis, are out of touch, monumentally so, with the overwhelming amount of the Holy People of God.

Daniel, thank you.


Mark Thomas

— Pope Venerable Pius XII, Encyclical Corporis Christi:

"Christ enlightens His whole is He who enriches pastors and teachers and above all ******* His Vicar on earth ******* with the supernatural gifts of knowledge, understanding and wisdom, so that they may loyally preserve the treasury of faith, defend it vigorously, and explain it and confirm it with reverence and devotion."

"Finally, it is He who, though unseen, presides at the Councils of the Church and guides them."

TJM said...


You will notice that MT never acknowledges that PF hates faithful, TLM Catholics. MT puts the "sick" Synod.

Mark Thomas said...

Daniel, I am not worried remotely in regard to the Synod.

The Church has called upon the Holy Ghost to guide the Synod. In turn, the Vicar of Christ, as well as bishops in communion with His Holiness, will speak the Truth.

Daniel, in light of the following, we may move forward with unwavering confidence: Pope Venerable Pius XII, Encyclical Corporis Christi:

"Christ enlightens His whole Church, as numberless passages from the Sacred Scriptures and the holy Fathers prove. And as for us today, who linger on in this earthly exile, He is still the author of faith as in our heavenly home He will be its finisher."

"It is He who imparts the light of faith to believers; it is He who enriches pastors and teachers and above all His Vicar on earth with the supernatural gifts of knowledge, understanding and wisdom, so that they may loyally preserve the treasury of faith, defend it vigorously, and explain it and confirm it with reverence and devotion."

"Finally, it is He who, though unseen, presides at the Councils of the Church and guides them."


Mark Thomas

ByzRus said...


Love Novus Bogus. Catchy, though it's validity isn't really questionable.


Not sure where commented, but without question societal shift contributed to decay within the Church, however, I'll suggest that's part of the story, not THE story.

Daniel said...

Societal shifts began as far back as the industrial revolution, the Enlightenment, the French revolution, the rise of big cities, the rise of liberalism and socialism in the 19th century, the first Modernist crisis 1890-1910, the arrival of cinema and radio, WW1 and it's aftermath; the Great Depression and on and on...yet the Church continued to survive and often flourish in many parts of the world.

There were further societal shifts after WW2 - but I'd suggest probably only God knows why so many western churchmen decided circa 1960 - 1985 it was the time or the era to push: the self destruct button!

TJM said...


MT has not and will not respond!


Yes the Novus Bogus is valid yet ineffective! Only simpletons fail to see its myriad of deficiencies: promotes disunity, lack of “noble simplicity” and clericalism on steroids. But lazy clerics love it!

Jerome Merwick said...

On the good ship lollipop
The curia forces down their slop
and pontiffs play
when not elected the canonical way

If you just want the easy way
then shut up and just obey
we can all feel good
'cause the man in white says we should

He loves us, so he'll say
but Pachamama has to stay
and his hatred shows
when tradition just has to go

It's the Holy Spirit
some fools claim
who reveals to us
that our past is lame
so shut off your brain
in Novus Ordoland we're all the same!

The barque of Peter
once sound and proud
is now sinking
underneath a cloud
But the devil won't stop
on his good ship lollipop!

My apologies to Shirley Temple.

TJM said...

Jerome Merwick,