Inquiring minds want to know. And isn’t it a bit unfair that the Ordinariate’s Missal allows for EF options that are not allowed in the normal much reformed 2011 version of the 1970 Roman Missal?
It is unfair and makes no sense to me, at least:
The Confiteor of the Ministers
If the following is prayed at the foot of the altar, the People may join in saying the responses and praying the Confiteor, kneeling. If so, this form may replace the usual Penitential Rite.
I confess to Almighty God, to Blessed Mary ever-Virgin, to Blessed Michael the Archangel, to Blessed John the Baptist, to the holy Apostles Peter and Paul, to all the Saints, and to thee, Father, that I have sinned exceedingly in thought, word, deed; [they strike -x- their breast thrice] by my [x] fault, by my own [x] fault, by my own [x] most grievous fault. Wherefore I beg Blessed Mary ever-Virgin, Blessed Michael the Archangel, Blessed John the Baptist, the holy Apostles Peter and Paul, all the Angels and Saints, and thee, Father, to pray for me to the Lord our God.
I confess to Almighty God, to Blessed Mary ever-Virgin, to Blessed Michael the Archangel, to Blessed John the Baptist, to the holy Apostles Peter and Paul, to all the Saints, and to thee, Father, that I have sinned exceedingly in thought, word, deed; [they strike -x- their breast thrice] by my [x] fault, by my own [x] fault, by my own [x] most grievous fault. Wherefore I beg Blessed Mary ever-Virgin, Blessed Michael the Archangel, Blessed John the Baptist, the holy Apostles Peter and Paul, all the Angels and Saints, and thee, Father, to pray for me to the Lord our God.
10 comments:
I never understood the “thinking,” if any, behind the revised Confiteor. Was taking out the reference to St. Peter and St. Paul supposed to make this prayer more acceptable to Protestants?
No, it is not "unfair" that different rites use different prayers and liturgical elements.
It isn't "unfair" that we can't insert parts of the Syro-Malabar Palm Sunday liturgy in the Latin Rite mass of that day.
Entrance -
C: "As our lord commanded on the feast of Passover let us gather in his holy name In unity, let us offer this sacrifice
A: Let us be reconciled and prepare a new altar with the love of the lord Jesus let us offer this Qurbana"
It isn't "unfair" that we can't pick and choose to include portions of the Ambrosian Rite in the Offertory in the Ambrosian Rite:
"Accept, most clement Father, this holy Bread, that it may become for us the Body of Your Only-begotten Son, in the Name of the Father + and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. Amen."
No, it is not "unfair." It also makes sense that when you have a variety of rite, each has its own ethos and sensibilities.
Don’t know, it’s way beyond my area of expertise, but on nothing more than my observations, I’d assume the answer is probably a solid “No way Jose.” It looks as though the post conciliar reformers with successfully removed from legitimate practice nearly all liturgical links to past forms of liturgical worship in the current common mass. More, though, is the question of what priest would be willing to do it? I know one who might, but only if he could get permission from the Bishop, which I think would not be granted, for a variety of reasons. I doubt my Bishop would be willing to support it, if it isn’t forbidden outright. Whether that is his own position, or that of the intercessors between us and the Bishop. Between us Joe Six-Packs of the pew sitting lay faithful and the person of the Bishop, there are a LOT of people. The Parish had its Big Donor class, plus the clergy, and then the parish staff. The same is repeated at the chancery. Adding to that, is all the same dynamic in each church in the diocese. And now add in the public’s commentary. The risk of losing money is pretty big, If the diocese loses ground on that front, the other bishops, and the metropolitan, and tgg hee usccb and the Vatican will know about it, and that reflects poorly on the Bishop. Even though our first and greatest concern must be our Lord, it’s easy to see how the good potential for loss of respect from seniors and peers could and would frighten a Bishop into playing it safe and not rocking the boat with this sort of thing. Only way I see it happening is that (a) it’s specifically permitted in the rules, and either (b) the Bishop is specifically forbidden from saying no to the request or (c) the Bishop has a burning desire to do this on his own authority. But that presumes the request isn’t intercepted and squashed dead without the Bishop ever even knowing that any request was ever made. My parish priest wouldn’t even send up that request, he’d just say no and treat the asker as a divisive and rigid hater.
Fr. K, LOL - tell us about the EF. why can't that Rite be freely used? Why is not that "ethos' and "sensibilities" honored?
Father McDonald:
This is a conundrum:
If you approach the sacred liturgy like a "progressive," then the answer is "of course, why not?" Our dear progressive clerics don't bat an eye about introducing all manner of things into the 1970 Mass, including things that are only barely liturgical. Oh, some progressive(s) who reads these words will howl that it's so unfair to say that, but as Colonel Slade said in "Scent of a Woman," "I've been around, you know? I've seen a thing or two!" So-called "progressives" don't even mind re-writing the actual texts of the Mass, to "fix" them.
But then, no such "progressives" would ever want to re-introduce the traditional confiteor. Instead, it's some hippy-dippy litany such as:
You come to raise our consciousnesses, Lord have mercy...
You call us to repent of not respecting the earth, Christ have mercy...
You remind us of how good and wonderful we really are, Lord have mercy...
On the other hand, if you approach the liturgy in a traditional and obedient way, then...
No, you can't interpolate the text of the old confiteor into the 1970 Mass, regardless of where it comes from.
A more fruitful inquiry would be: can a priest not belonging to the Ordinariate ever offer Mass according to the Ordinariate's missal? It's not a different rite, but rather, a different "use" within the Roman Rite. What are the rules about this?
Father Fox,
You and Father McDonald are jewels and help me keep the Faith. A Happy and Blessed Thanksgiving to you both!
Anglicanorum Coetibus! If only our Episcopalian friends realized what's on offer here. The Episcopal Church is beyond resuscitation. If our local Episcopal parish chose to go AC, I'd be there in a heart beat. From what I can tell, they've no idea that such a path is open to them. The "old guard" would perhaps give it some thought, but their carzies will reject it out of hand.
Willam,
Our old guard, PF and his minions, should join them!
In the Dominican Use of the Roman Rite the Confiteor is as follows (this is the server's/ministers' version, mutatis mutandis for the priest):
Confiteor Deo omnipotenti, et beatae Mariae semper Virgini et beato Dominico Patri nostro, et omnibus Sanctis, et tibi, Pater, quia peccavi nimis cogitatione, locutione, opere et omissione, mea culpa: precor te orare pro me.
And this from the Use of Sarum, priest's version:
Confiteor Deo, beatae Mariae, omnibus Sanctis et vobis; quia peccavi nimis cogitatione, locutione et opere: mea culpa. Precor sanctam Mariam, omnes Sanctos Dei et vos, orare pro me.
Both quite short, don't you think? But note that after the priest's Confiteor the server/ministers say the Misereatur and then their own Confiteor, after which the priest says the Misereatur and Indulgentiam (the wording of both is slightly different from the familiar Tridentine prayers).
It should be clear that a shorter Confiteor is not unknown in the Roman Rite. Where the Novus Ordo certainly breaks with tradition is that it has only one Confiteor, recited by priest and people together, and the Indulgentiam is simply dropped.
Regarding the Ordinariate missal: FSSP, ICRSS, SSPX etc. are priestly fraternities who use the pre-Conciliar liturgical books. This is not the case with the Ordinariates. Anglicanorum Coetibus is concerned with groups of Anglicans who want to be in communion with Rome but retain some of their Anglican patrimony. If a non-Ordinariate priest found himself having to celebrate for such a congregation he would presumably use the Ordinariate missal. Ordinariate priests can and do celebrate according to the 1962 Missal and they sometimes 'stand in' for non-Ordinariate clergy in providing this service.
The rule is 'no mixing of rites' and most liturgical scholars regard the Novus Ordo as a distinct rite, despite Benedict XVI's legal fiction of 'two forms of the one Roman Rite' which on the face of it would allow mixing.
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