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Monday, June 28, 2021

NO, NO, NO, NO, NO!

Before:

After:


Okay, the after is better than the before. This is a photo from “I’m fed up with ugly churches” The author writes: One thing I find especially distasteful about post-Vatican II church renovations is the extensive use of wall-to-wall carpets.  What were people thinking of back then?  It’s ugly.  In one church I know, carpet staples were driven into marble flooring.  Fortunately, some churches are now fixing their overly carpeted, tacky interiors.  These two photos show Holy Ghost Church in Issue, Maryland, as renovated years ago with carpeting (photo 1), and after a recent re-renovation by Gardiner Hall Associates of Bethesda, Maryland (photo 2).

My comments:

Believe it or not, the Church of the Most Holy Trinity in Augusta was fully carpeted in the early 1970’s. When I got there in 1991 the carpet had been replaced with new, expensive wall-to-wall carpet. The carpet was on all the aisles of the church and in the sanctuary. 

When we restored the interior in a major restoration, I called the priest who carpeted it and asked if he did so because the floor was damaged. He said no. And thus we removed all the carpet revealing the 1860’s marble tiles throughout the nave and sanctuary. UNBELIEVABLE!

But the before and after photo above, while an improvement, misses the mark. The original altar should have been pulled forward and a ledge for the tabernacle and six candles created behind it still allowing it to look as once unit but clearly not with two altars as both renovations do.

Please, if at all possible, only one main altar in the sanctuary. The best example of this is the Church of the Most Holy Trinity in Augusta where Mass can be celebrated both toward the nave and the apse. 



My other pet peeve is artwork or sacred writings on the floor which means people walk all over it which in our culture is a sign of disrespect. 

39 comments:

Tom Marcus said...

Father, no disrespect intended, but I think you should be more concerned about the fact that in every church where Communion is received in the hand, people walk on particles of the Body of Christ. I think that is far more offensive than walking on artwork.

Fr. Michael J. Kavanaugh said...

Yes, carpet was a "thing" for too many years. Our musician classmate in seminary, Fr. Jim Chepponis, who is not an editor at GIA, wore a pin that said, "Carpet bedrooms, not churches!"

Stacheman said...

Carpet was a big deal in secular/domestic settings for a time as well - associated with economic prosperity and status. Wall-to-wall carpet was something to brag about if my older relatives are anything to go by, so I wonder if carpeted churches would have happened regardless of Vatican II (of course, it also helped cover up the damage done by rearranging the sanctuary and removing altar rails). When my in-laws bought a new house with beautiful wood floors a decade ago, my wife's great-grandmother offered to buy wall-to-wall carpet for them and genuinely didn't understand why they would want the hardwood floors showing.

William said...

Two things that don't belong in a Catholic church: A piano and wall-to-wall carpeting! Both attract detritus.

Fr. Michael Kavanaugh said...

Now an editor, not "not."

NH said...

People with Allergies should certainly be thankful that the carpet is being removed! I agree that a contemporary renovation should have no reason for two altars in the sanctuary. The second altar has always been a Vatican 2 afterthought. I can’t understand why the little alter in that renovation sits lower than the main (unused) altar.

Pierre said...

Church musicians particularly did not like carpeting because of the way it affected the acoustics.

Chip said...

From New England protestant church to monochrome diner lacking only chrome communion stools transformation. Sterile, both of them.

Anonymous said...

Did that Church in Philly ever get fixed after that temporary priest carpeted the place with no permission and while everyone was quarantined? Remember that?

Fr. Michael J. Kavanaugh said...

Overall, the re-do is, I think, exceptional. The neo-classic style is revived in its elegant simplicity, eliminating the post-mid-century modern out-of-the-catalogue furnishings.

I am reminded of Holy Trinity Church in Georgetown, Washington, DC. It features and almost all-white interior with pilasters and wainscoting, white floors, and white-painted pews.

There is, to me, a strong architectural and decorative unity that the former lacked.

Pierre said...

The renovation evokes the style of Sir Christopher Wren

ByzRus said...

Agree wholly with Fr. MJK's thoughts.

Additionally, I do not agree that both altar and reredos need to be made to look like one unit. Where this has been done, it is sometimes successful, in other instances, one looks as though it were competing with the other. If meant to be one unit, reunite the mensa with the reredos.

Agree with Tom Marcus - While I'm not a fan of written messages within tile floors, symbols have often become part of floor medallions. Consecrated particles being scattered about should be a greater concern.

rcg said...

There are older churches where the dead are entombed in the floor.

Chip said...

Not too many here agree with my take, I see.

I look at churches as to how much they invite one to pray and spend time with God.

With any of these churches, I ask myself, "Is this where you want to spend the rest of your life encountering God?" For the parishoners, it will be exactly that for many.

I think they deserve better, here, and in many/most examples. This purpose seems forgotten by most.

Anonymous said...

Well, Williams, I heard a piano at a church in Montgomery this past weekend, and even the precious blood distributed at communion. Golly, who ever knew that Alabama was on the liberal side of things these days? And the piano occasionally (very occasionally) is played at offertory at my parish in 30327. I'd' say 95 percent organ if not more. Lightning has not yet struck....

John Nolan said...

A priest I know, when he took over a small 1970s church, found that one of his predecessors had covered the entire floor space with carpet tiles. When removing them he found that the adhesive used to fix them had wrecked the tiled floor underneath, which had to be replaced at not inconsiderable cost.




Pierre said...

Anonymous at 9:52,

I am an accomplished pianist and despise piano music at Mass. Fortunately our young pastor has removed the piano and gave it back to the family that donated it. Also the common cup is NOT coming back and the pastor is doing without Eucharistic ministers! Noble simplicity is finally back! This pastor is the future

H. Roark said...

Pierre - You may DESPISE whatever you like, but that doesn't make it wrong. A piano is perfectly acceptable for providing music to accompany singing at Catholic Mass or top provide beautiful music on its own.

Your young pastor's rude return of a generous donation likely won't serve him well in whatever future he may encounter.

John Nolan said...

H Roark

Pius X in his Motu Proprio 'Tra Le Sollecitudini' expressly forbade the use of the pianoforte in church. So Pierre is in better company than it would appear you are. I don't necessarily agree with all Pius X's strictures on liturgical music but this one seems a no-brainer.

H Roark said...

J Nolan

And Benedict XIV forbade Christians from accepting permenent domestic service under Jews in A Quop Primum (June 14, 1751).

Pierre said...

H. Roark,

The piano is not a fit instrument for Church music. I have had nearly 50 years in Church music and familiar with all the principle documents on sacred music. If you want to turn the Mass into a piano bar experience, then go for it. It is not rude to return a donation. The Steinway concert grand is a fine instrument and Father could have sold it for a lot of money but generously decided to ask the donor family if they wanted it back. Now don’t you feel a little bit foolish for accusing our pastor of being “rude?”

Tom Marcus said...

Pierre:

Gotta agree. When I hear those piano chords start pounding, I expect George Beverly Shea and the local choir collective prep us for Billy Graham.

This Catholic shall NOT gather at the river. I prefer consecrated sanctuaries.

H Roark said...

Pierre - If you want to turn the Mass into a carnival or theatre experience, then use an organ. Surely someone of your VAST familiarity with music knows of the sounds produced by a Mighty Wurlitzer Organ or many organs for that matter which can include car horns, stampeding horses, thunder, drums, marimbas, and/or cymbals.

You see, it is not the instrument that is "fit" or "appropriate," but the manner in which it is played.

As for your pastor's return of a fine instrument there is a saying, "Reject a gift, reject the giver."

Pierre said...

H Rourke Kavanaugh,

Sorry but Sacrosanctum Concilium says the organ has pride of place and for good reason. Your reasoning on the generosity of the pastor in returning the piano instead of selling it is pretty lame. You must be bored today.

Tom Marcus said...

H. Roark,

No offense, but until the horrors of the early 70's began and all manner of instruments were introduced, the pipe organ was the primary and dominant instrument for liturgical music in almost every parish. There was no "mighty Wurlitzer", carnival calliope or gaudy specimens from the Gay 90's Melody Museum of St. Louis. Organ music at Mass was usually subdued during Offertory and Communion and the organists worked in tandem with the parish choirs.

I can see how your limited experiences with organ Music might lead you to such a conclusion, but centuries of Church music have given us a far different legacy than the tawdry scene you've concocted in your post.

Pierre said...

Tom Marcus,

Bravo!

Chip said...

Does anybody here remember the checkerboard square church refurb as pictured with the originating post, and is there a piano in either the before or after photo? Perhaps the excess of black and white triggered free association and anger over those dreaded piano lessons of childhood?

I say a capella is the only REAL church music. What kind of keyboard would Peter or Paul prefer leads me to wonder about their preferred dish soap.

rcg said...

Chip, when my wife and I were married my uncle, a professional organist and pianist, was hired to play. He made his living playing for large parishes and Protestant churches. While discussing the music someone asked if he was planning to play on the piano or the organ. He flashed a stern look and informed the person that there should be no pianos in a Catholic Church.

Anonymous said...

I was serious as to a capella. I think instruments have had a fatal effect on song/chant as prayer, and turned it into secular artforms and constantly shifting fads and the purpose quite lost in worship, as soaring and magnificent as it can be. The organ goes back to at least Greek times but was for the wealthy including imperial courts and games, and not adopted for Christian worship until perhaps circa 800AD.

Even then, the use was limited to suchlike cathedrals. Having an organ at games is far older than an organ at Christian worship, something to ponder at the stadium, even if (mostly) lacking blood and death today.

John Nolan said...

No doubt H Roark will change his moniker for the next thread (despite the entreaties of the blog owner) but he does sound like a frequent anonymous commentator.

Recent documents on liturgical music specify the 'pipe organ'. The 'mighty Wurlitzer' is a cinema organ, has no pipes, and has a completely different sound.

In !863 Rossini wrote his 'Petite Messe Solennelle' where the accompaniment is for two pianos and harmonium, but it was not approved for liturgical use. Composers whose repertory of works for the piano is large (Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven, Hummel, Schubert) never thought to use that instrument in their liturgical music, and their successors from the 19th to the 21st centuries have followed suit.

Fr Moderate Modernity said...

The steps to the reredos should have been extended to create a platform for the freestanding altar so both were same height - and looked as one integral unit. Either that or the freestanding altar should have been in a darker (but complimenting) marble tone to ensure it was prominent.

Well that’s my tuppence opinion anyway.

John Nolan said...

I agree with FrMJK that the restrained classical style can be very effective, but so can the gothic revival of AWN Pugin and those influenced by him, not to mention the Italian Renaissance (see Brompton Oratory) and the later baroque. Matisse's chapel at Vence is a successful example of a mid-20th century style, albeit a very original one.

H Roark said...

Pierre - "Pride of place" doesn't mean "The piano is either banned or inappropriate."

If you've got an organ and a piano in your church, but no one trained to play the organ, the piano is the preferred instrument for the musical accompaniment.

At some point the organ became the commonly used instrument in churches, but not because it had any inherent superiority to other instruments. It is not more uplifting or inspirational.

The piano is a fine instrument for accompanying congregational singing, choir singing, or solo singing. The notion that a piano is somehow a "Protestant" thing is just plain silly.

"I don't want you generous gift anymore" or "We have no use for your generous gift in my church" is simply rude.

H Roark said...

J Nolan - Wurlitzer organs have pipes. "The largest original Wurlitzer still in operation—with more than 4,000 pipes in 58 ranks, ranging from 32 feet in length to the size of a pencil—is also the most famous: the Radio City Music Hall Wurlitzer in New York City, which was installed in 1932." Smithsonian Magazine, April 2002

Pierre said...

H Roark,

You just confirmed you are Father Kavanaugh, because you just can't shut up. Your interpretation of my pastor's actions is nuts.

Tom Marcus said...

Who said Wurlitzer organs did not have pipes? Every organ builder in the world who has ever installed an organ in a public place has constructed pipe organs. What we seem to be overlooking is that the vast majority of those places were church buildings.

Why must we sidetrack ourselves on non-issues?

H Roark said...

J Nolan: "Recent documents on liturgical music specify the 'pipe organ'. The 'mighty Wurlitzer' is a cinema organ, has no pipes, and has a completely different sound."

See 4:01 AM above.

Tom Marcus said...

"The Mighty Wurlitzer" is little more than a show-biz colloquialism dating back to the silent film era had theaters in larger cities equipped with organs. And it is true, cinema organs are tooled for a different sound? So what of it? So were organs used in roller rinks, baseball stadiums and even department stores (like Wanamaker's in Philadelphia). Again, so what? Kimball, Kilgen, Lowery, Wurlitzer, Aeolian, Wicks and Olympic are just a few of the organ builders who have supplied organs to all of these venues, ESPECIALLY CHURCHES. Up until the revolutionaries imposed Peter, Paul and Mary upon us, organs, usually pipe organs, were the standard and the norm for the average parish Church in America. If you are younger than 60, no one can blame you for not knowing this. No one said that pianos are exclusively Protestant either, but if you are younger than 60 and ever watched Rex Humbard, Kathryn Kuhlman, Billy Graham or Jimmy Swaggart, it's pretty hard to erase the redneckish-Protestant imagery a piano conjures when played in a church building.

If I want to have a reverent Communion experience, I think of the organ. If I want to personally accept Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior, I think of pianos.

Tom Marcus said...

Actually, many cinema organs were installed with pipes, depending on the size of the theater.