I watched Father Altman on Dr. Taylor Marshall’s YouTube channel yesterday such a true Roman Catholic priest who is NOT afraid to speak the truth and obey Roman Catholic teaching. Like Father Z. Father Altman learned how to offer the TLM and now has fallen in love with it, his only recourse if he is forced to resign is to join the S.S.P.X. where he can find a good parish to serve and escape the Novus Ordo persecution.
The problem is that Altman is NOT obeying Roman Catholic teaching.
When reminded of this by his bishop, to whom Altman pledged obedience (!), he has resonded with defiance.
When warned that his bishop will pursue his removal from office, he refers to the bishop and those who support the bishop as "pansy babies."
Pairing up with Taylor Marshall of, "The Hierarchy is Full of Masons!" nonsense and the "Vigano is a Hero" nonsense, will do Altman no good, unless it is to fill his pockets with donations to his "cause."
Fr. Altman has shown contempt for his bishop. The promise he made to his bishop at his ordination was a promise to respect and obey his bishop. He has done neither. The problem with Neo-conservative or Neo-traditionalists is that they are not fully Catholic when it comes to the promises priests or religious make.
Would they applaud Altman if he disobeyed his promise of celibacy too? Both promises have gravely important for the integrity of the priest who has made them. And if he break either or both, disciplinary action should take place. I am glad that it has.
What is a priest to do if his bishop is a Democrat operative masquerading as a Catholic bishop? We have plenty of those, like McCarrick and the bishop in San Diego. It sounds like what got Father Altman into trouble is not pandering to the political left and the leftists in the Church. He spoke truth to power. Father Pfleger was reinstated in Chicago, but he is divisive and disobedient. But he is a leftist.
The priest can leave the priesthood, seek another diocese or a religious order who will take him. There are proper ways for him to behave. The media isn't the place for it and becoming a faux hero to those who are rebellious.
Again, there are many reasons why a priest might want to have sex and disobey is promise of celibacy. He may think it is unjust and thus he does it he thinks it is stunting his psychological growth and will make him into a democrat operative.
It all gets really silly when you pull out one thread of priestly obedience. He needed to be disciplined.
When any priest faces St Peter at the pearly gates and all he can say is "I followed orders" I wonder what happens next I really wonder about this, "the road to hell is paved with the skulls of bishops" what about the clergy he forced into obedience and Joe and jean pewsitter following because along because the Bishop said so? Who pays the eternal price? After all the Germans said " I was just following orders"
Does a bishop really need a reason to ask a pastor to resign? I mean, we are not a Protestant denomination, where the lay governing board can tell the pastor to hit the road. This priest sounds like a publicity hound and for him to call Biden demented..well, sounds like the pot calling the kettle, so to say....
While Fr. Altman's message, in part, resonates with me, his flagrant disobedience and the public discord that it has created, I do not. For all the good that Fr. might have done, or might yet do, is the appearance or reality of schism acceptable collateral damage along the way? Are those who, perhaps not being as worldly as others, scandalized by Fr's words and led to sin because of them? There's a way to go about getting your message out without creating dissension with the one who possesses the fullness of the priesthood, apostolic succession as well as the outright authority to lead that particular see. Did Fr. exhaust all reasonable means to appropriately effect a change of heart with his superiors? If yes and if he is so passionate or, stubborn regarding his "rightness" he did not, did Fr. seek to move to where he would be better aligned? Regardless of where Fr. goes, would his bishop every be "right" enough for him? My observation is persons like Fr. more often than not will at some point self destruct. I do not believe Fr. Altman is being martyred, I do feel that he has brought this upon himself. Shame, as he does seem to be gifted.
The piece from NCR gives a wider view and analysis of the controversies surrounding Altman than much of reporting on the subject. The more complete story is even more troubling in light of Altman’s recent comments to the media.
Callahan seems to be acting well within his authority and in a reasonable manner as opposed to acting as ‘an operative’ of any political party.
First, the Bishop, not the priest, holds full authority in every diocese. It is his decision, not the priest's, to open or close a church during a pandemic. If Fr. Altman thought he had that authority, then Fr. Altman was mistaken.
Second, Fr. Altman obviously disagreed with the decision, but that does not impinge on the bishop's authority in any way. Fr. Altman could disagree and argue all he wanted to behind the closed doors of the bishop's office. But when those doors open it was Altman's responsibility to defer to the bishop's decision.
Third, the decision to close churches during the pandemic did not imperil anyone's salvation. It was a major inconvenience, it was a most unfortunate disruption in peoples' spiritual lives as I hope I will ever live to see, but it did not put anyone on the road to hell.
Fourth, Altman is diving into lunacy or near-lunacy with his published comments on Jews in the Warsaw ghetto, the "danger" of the coronavirus vaccine, in asserting that the lynchings of black men in the south was due mainly to their having committed rape or murder, among other things.
He has been given every opportunity to reconsider his positions and to change his behavior. His bishop is well within his rights to demand he step down or to remove him if Altman refuses.
I understand your concerns, but your argument is mistaken.
The vow of obedience does not bind a cleric to perform any positive act that is immoral or even contrary to conscience. So, for example, if my bishop ordered me, say, to do something immoral or to do something clearly contrary to liturgical norms (which the bishop clearly cannot dispense from), then I would tell him my conscience will not allow me to do it, and I will take the consequences of that. Note: the result, on my part, is inaction.
Similarly, if the bishop asked me to SAY something, or sign my name to something, contrary to my conscience, again I would decline, and the result would be silence.
Yes, there are times when one must SPEAK, but those times are far, far fewer than many suppose, and in such times, it is a temptation to think, oh the world MUST hear MY voice. That is -- so very often -- vanity. But it doesn't look at all like vanity in the moment; in the moment it looks so noble and seems so absolutely necessary.
After all, however much I might want to speak out (as a priest) about a particular candidate or a particular party, it is certainly not the case now, or in 2020, that the country was lacking for someone to point out the problems with any of the candidates.
For that matter, I doubt Father Altman would have gotten in so much trouble if he had been only a little more careful: say, highlight particular stances embraced by Mr. Biden and his party, and explained each issue one by one. But he effectively anathematized everyone in the party, which however satisfying that is rhetorically, it fails the more rigorous test of moral theology; i.e., however improbable, one can call oneself a Democrat and dissent from that party's problematic stances. And from the point of view of persuasion, that's just a dumb argument to get into. Far more persuasive is to stick to the specific issues of abortion and euthanasia and redefining marriage etc.
and fr freaking fleabag just keeps on going, disobedient to the max but them his parish brings in a lot of money. the " parish" with held collection money till his return. But then Pfleger is a leftist nut bag
Father Pfleger to say it nicely adopts a teenager years ago and is an open Homosexual yet Father Altman who adheres to the Roman Catholic faith is persecuted, just the United States the Church is upside down.
to vote dem is to vote death. They allow no other opinion, remember they voted god out of their platform under the 0. They are the party of abortion period full stop.
Well, Egyptian, millions of folks voted Democratic last November. Even in the state of Georgia, which hadn't voted D for president since Clinton in 1992. Did Biden get 80-something million votes because they all wanted death? Just maybe some could not stomach another 4 years of Trump? People back candidates for all sorts of reasons, but I suspect for many voters, it was more an anti-Trump vote than a pro-Biden one, especially given that Biden is past his prime. It would have been nice to have an option to those two, but unfortunately in America, politics gravitates toward 2 parties and a 3rd party just is not viable.
My wife and I always appreciate your comments on this blog.
My first reaction was that Fr Altman should have just focused on the issue of abortion and citizens voting for VERY pro abortion Demonicrat politicians. Having heard Fr Altman speak with Taylor Marshall, I agreed with a lot, but not all of what he said, on that occasion. But for Fr Altman to roam so widely, and controversially, on almost every major “culture war” issue, as the above linked articles and other articles show, simply undermines to a great extent what good things Fr Altman has to say about abortion and the TLM....
The context of this whole drama is that it DOES seem to be the case that the only explanation, of significant numbers of US bishops acting as they do, is that many do not have strong BELIEF in what the Catholic Church has taught for centuries...
And as it has been stated above, the double standards re “leftist” and “progressive” American Catholic priests just really stinks.
well anon I guess millions of people put freebees in front of sin. Their soul not mine. To be complicit in abortion is a sin a serious sin. We talk about pro abortion politicians and communion, what about the people who enable them, are they not complicit?
Who voted for the massively influential members of the mainstream media who so demonised Trump for more than 4 years and have given and still give “devout Catholic” Joe Biden, an old man in clear cognitive decline, such a free pass ? I have taken to watching German Deutsche Welle for something close to balanced coverage of Sleepy Joe’s administration’s first months in power; or Australia’s Sky News for coverage of certain aspects of US political/current affairs. By the way, at work today I heard something about approximately 120 retired generals and admirals signing a sort of statement and or petition that Biden, on several grounds, is unfit to be commander in chief; but this is getting close to zero coverage in the USA. However, overseas it IS getting coverage. I am now off to google: Biden retired generals and admirals etc to find out more...
Let’s face it, a hundred years from now, when a general history of the USA is written, with some degree of objectivity, the Trump presidency will be recorded as - no wars started, no major foreign affairs blunders, a booming economy until COVID-19 etc The Biden years (until Pelosi and Harris have him put down) ......the USA with a joke, Woke president 2021 - ......
I saw this story today about a town in Ohio which declared itself a "sanctuary city" and banned abortion. I think we should thank liberals for giving us this idea which they used to shield illegal aliens:
"The Lebanon City Council voted unanimously Tuesday night to approve an ordinance that bans abortion in the city and also declares the city of 20,000 in Warren County, north of Cincinnati, a "sanctuary city for the unborn."
Please note, none of these council members are Democrats, of course. Yet we have corrupt bishops and priests who vote for the Party of Intrinsic Evil without batting an eye.
As news of the letter spread, it set off a round of recriminations among current and former military members. One serving Navy officer, who did not want to be identified publicly, called it "disturbing and reckless."
Jim Golby, an expert in civil-military relations, called it a "shameful effort to use their rank and the military's reputation for such a gross and blatant partisan attack," while a retired Air Force colonel who teaches cadets at the Air Force Academy, Marybeth Ulrich, labeled it "anti-democratic."
"I think it hurts the military and by extension it hurts the country," said retired Adm. Mike Mullen, a former chair of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, describing it as replete with "right-wing Republican talking points."
Re: Demonising Trump
Trump demonized himself with his adultery, his lies, his pettiness, his absurd claims of expertise, his support for dictators (remember when he sided WITH Putin AGAINST 13 U.S. intelligence agencies?), his epidemic denial, his prostitute hush money payments, etc.
It didn't take anyolne else to make him look bad. He was bad.
It is NOT true that this story is getting "close to zero coverage in the USA." It has been reported in The Hill, Business Insider, Politico, Huff Post, Yahoo News, Washington Examiner, Salon, NY Post, New York Times, etc.
Good to see our resident Trump hater showing up. Trump responded to a 24/7 barrage of nasty attacks launched by the so-called "liberal" media. In contrast, Obama receive a daily tongue bath from them - "what enchants you most about the presidency?" one New York Times reporter asked Obama. The legacy media spends its time ignoring Biden's numerous gaffs and nasty comments and disastrous policies. A priest should not be spending his time as a political pundit.
President Biden is a fine Catholic and mentally as sharp as a tack. Every one of those retired generals and admirals, all 124 of them, must be tin foil hat conspiracy theorists and also men who truly wish to harm the military and their nation with a gross, disturbing right wing partisan attack. I agree completely.
28 comments:
I watched Father Altman on Dr. Taylor Marshall’s YouTube channel yesterday such a true Roman Catholic priest who is NOT afraid to speak the truth and obey Roman Catholic teaching. Like Father Z. Father Altman learned how to offer the TLM and now has fallen in love with it, his only recourse if he is forced to resign is to join the S.S.P.X. where he can find a good parish to serve and escape the Novus Ordo persecution.
The problem is that Altman is NOT obeying Roman Catholic teaching.
When reminded of this by his bishop, to whom Altman pledged obedience (!), he has resonded with defiance.
When warned that his bishop will pursue his removal from office, he refers to the bishop and those who support the bishop as "pansy babies."
Pairing up with Taylor Marshall of, "The Hierarchy is Full of Masons!" nonsense and the "Vigano is a Hero" nonsense, will do Altman no good, unless it is to fill his pockets with donations to his "cause."
Fr. Altman has shown contempt for his bishop. The promise he made to his bishop at his ordination was a promise to respect and obey his bishop. He has done neither. The problem with Neo-conservative or Neo-traditionalists is that they are not fully Catholic when it comes to the promises priests or religious make.
Would they applaud Altman if he disobeyed his promise of celibacy too? Both promises have gravely important for the integrity of the priest who has made them. And if he break either or both, disciplinary action should take place. I am glad that it has.
Father McDonald,
What is a priest to do if his bishop is a Democrat operative masquerading as a Catholic bishop? We have plenty of those, like McCarrick and the bishop in San Diego. It sounds like what got Father Altman into trouble is not pandering to the political left and the leftists in the Church. He spoke truth to power. Father Pfleger was reinstated in Chicago, but he is divisive and disobedient. But he is a leftist.
The priest can leave the priesthood, seek another diocese or a religious order who will take him. There are proper ways for him to behave. The media isn't the place for it and becoming a faux hero to those who are rebellious.
Again, there are many reasons why a priest might want to have sex and disobey is promise of celibacy. He may think it is unjust and thus he does it he thinks it is stunting his psychological growth and will make him into a democrat operative.
It all gets really silly when you pull out one thread of priestly obedience. He needed to be disciplined.
a promise to respect and obey his bishop
When any priest faces St Peter at the pearly gates and all he can say is "I followed orders" I wonder what happens next
I really wonder about this, "the road to hell is paved with the skulls of bishops"
what about the clergy he forced into obedience and Joe and jean pewsitter following because along because the Bishop said so? Who pays the eternal price?
After all the Germans said " I was just following orders"
Does a bishop really need a reason to ask a pastor to resign? I mean, we are not a Protestant denomination, where the lay governing board can tell the pastor to hit the road. This priest sounds like a publicity hound and for him to call Biden demented..well, sounds like the pot calling the kettle, so to say....
While Fr. Altman's message, in part, resonates with me, his flagrant disobedience and the public discord that it has created, I do not. For all the good that Fr. might have done, or might yet do, is the appearance or reality of schism acceptable collateral damage along the way? Are those who, perhaps not being as worldly as others, scandalized by Fr's words and led to sin because of them? There's a way to go about getting your message out without creating dissension with the one who possesses the fullness of the priesthood, apostolic succession as well as the outright authority to lead that particular see. Did Fr. exhaust all reasonable means to appropriately effect a change of heart with his superiors? If yes and if he is so passionate or, stubborn regarding his "rightness" he did not, did Fr. seek to move to where he would be better aligned? Regardless of where Fr. goes, would his bishop every be "right" enough for him? My observation is persons like Fr. more often than not will at some point self destruct. I do not believe Fr. Altman is being martyred, I do feel that he has brought this upon himself. Shame, as he does seem to be gifted.
The piece from NCR gives a wider view and analysis of the controversies surrounding Altman than much of reporting on the subject. The more complete story is even more troubling in light of Altman’s recent comments to the media.
Callahan seems to be acting well within his authority and in a reasonable manner as opposed to acting as ‘an operative’ of any political party.
-RF
Father McDonald,
A leftist disobedient priest almost never gets removed, that’s the difference, and frankly many of us have had it with the double standard employed.
Egyption -
The "St. Peter" tale doesn't obtain.
First, the Bishop, not the priest, holds full authority in every diocese. It is his decision, not the priest's, to open or close a church during a pandemic. If Fr. Altman thought he had that authority, then Fr. Altman was mistaken.
Second, Fr. Altman obviously disagreed with the decision, but that does not impinge on the bishop's authority in any way. Fr. Altman could disagree and argue all he wanted to behind the closed doors of the bishop's office. But when those doors open it was Altman's responsibility to defer to the bishop's decision.
Third, the decision to close churches during the pandemic did not imperil anyone's salvation. It was a major inconvenience, it was a most unfortunate disruption in peoples' spiritual lives as I hope I will ever live to see, but it did not put anyone on the road to hell.
Fourth, Altman is diving into lunacy or near-lunacy with his published comments on Jews in the Warsaw ghetto, the "danger" of the coronavirus vaccine, in asserting that the lynchings of black men in the south was due mainly to their having committed rape or murder, among other things.
He has been given every opportunity to reconsider his positions and to change his behavior. His bishop is well within his rights to demand he step down or to remove him if Altman refuses.
Anon - A pastor is protected by Canon Law in his position. Canons 1740-1752 apply.
Bishop Callahan has asked for Altman's resignation so that he, Callahan, does not have to order him out.
The "defense" fund for Altman is currently at $208,955.00. I hope there is a plan for that money to go to good use when this ends.
Anon - A pastor is protected by Canon Law in his position. Canons 1740-1752 apply.
Bishop Callahan has asked for Altman's resignation so that he, Callahan, does not have to order him out.
The "defense" fund for Altman is currently at $208,955.00. I hope there is a plan for that money to go to good use when this ends.
Pierre, Egyptian:
I understand your concerns, but your argument is mistaken.
The vow of obedience does not bind a cleric to perform any positive act that is immoral or even contrary to conscience. So, for example, if my bishop ordered me, say, to do something immoral or to do something clearly contrary to liturgical norms (which the bishop clearly cannot dispense from), then I would tell him my conscience will not allow me to do it, and I will take the consequences of that. Note: the result, on my part, is inaction.
Similarly, if the bishop asked me to SAY something, or sign my name to something, contrary to my conscience, again I would decline, and the result would be silence.
Yes, there are times when one must SPEAK, but those times are far, far fewer than many suppose, and in such times, it is a temptation to think, oh the world MUST hear MY voice. That is -- so very often -- vanity. But it doesn't look at all like vanity in the moment; in the moment it looks so noble and seems so absolutely necessary.
After all, however much I might want to speak out (as a priest) about a particular candidate or a particular party, it is certainly not the case now, or in 2020, that the country was lacking for someone to point out the problems with any of the candidates.
For that matter, I doubt Father Altman would have gotten in so much trouble if he had been only a little more careful: say, highlight particular stances embraced by Mr. Biden and his party, and explained each issue one by one. But he effectively anathematized everyone in the party, which however satisfying that is rhetorically, it fails the more rigorous test of moral theology; i.e., however improbable, one can call oneself a Democrat and dissent from that party's problematic stances. And from the point of view of persuasion, that's just a dumb argument to get into. Far more persuasive is to stick to the specific issues of abortion and euthanasia and redefining marriage etc.
and fr freaking fleabag just keeps on going, disobedient to the max but them his parish brings in a lot of money. the " parish" with held collection money till his return. But then Pfleger is a leftist nut bag
Father Pfleger to say it nicely adopts a teenager years ago and is an open Homosexual yet Father Altman who adheres to the Roman Catholic faith is persecuted, just the United States the Church is upside down.
to vote dem is to vote death. They allow no other opinion, remember they voted god out of their platform under the 0. They are the party of abortion period full stop.
Well, Egyptian, millions of folks voted Democratic last November. Even in the state of Georgia, which hadn't voted D for president since Clinton in 1992. Did Biden get 80-something million votes because they all wanted death? Just maybe some could not stomach another 4 years of Trump? People back candidates for all sorts of reasons, but I suspect for many voters, it was more an anti-Trump vote than a pro-Biden one, especially given that Biden is past his prime. It would have been nice to have an option to those two, but unfortunately in America, politics gravitates toward 2 parties and a 3rd party just is not viable.
Thanks again, Fr Martin Fox,
My wife and I always appreciate your comments on this blog.
My first reaction was that Fr Altman should have just focused on the issue of abortion and citizens voting for VERY pro abortion Demonicrat politicians. Having heard Fr Altman speak with Taylor Marshall, I agreed with a lot, but not all of what he said, on that occasion. But for Fr Altman to roam so widely, and controversially, on almost every major “culture war” issue, as the above linked articles and other articles show, simply undermines to a great extent what good things Fr Altman has to say about abortion and the TLM....
The context of this whole drama is that it DOES seem to be the case that the only explanation, of significant numbers of US bishops acting as they do, is that many do not have strong BELIEF in what the Catholic Church has taught for centuries...
And as it has been stated above, the double standards re “leftist” and “progressive” American Catholic priests just really stinks.
well anon I guess millions of people put freebees in front of sin. Their soul not mine. To be complicit in abortion is a sin a serious sin. We talk about pro abortion politicians and communion, what about the people who enable them, are they not complicit?
Who voted for the massively influential members of the mainstream media who so demonised Trump for more than 4 years and have given and still give “devout Catholic” Joe Biden, an old man in clear cognitive decline, such a free pass ?
I have taken to watching German Deutsche Welle for something close to balanced coverage of Sleepy Joe’s administration’s first months in power; or Australia’s Sky News for coverage of certain aspects of US political/current affairs.
By the way, at work today I heard something about approximately 120 retired generals and admirals signing a sort of statement and or petition that Biden, on several grounds, is unfit to be commander in chief; but this is getting close to zero coverage in the USA. However, overseas it IS getting coverage.
I am now off to google: Biden retired generals and admirals etc to find out more...
Let’s face it, a hundred years from now, when a general history of the USA is written, with some degree of objectivity, the Trump presidency will be recorded as - no wars started, no major foreign affairs blunders, a booming economy until COVID-19 etc
The Biden years (until Pelosi and Harris have him put down) ......the USA with a joke, Woke president 2021 - ......
Father Fox,
I saw this story today about a town in Ohio which declared itself a "sanctuary city" and banned abortion. I think we should thank liberals for giving us this idea which they used to shield illegal aliens:
"The Lebanon City Council voted unanimously Tuesday night to approve an ordinance that bans abortion in the city and also declares the city of 20,000 in Warren County, north of Cincinnati, a "sanctuary city for the unborn."
Please note, none of these council members are Democrats, of course. Yet we have corrupt bishops and priests who vote for the Party of Intrinsic Evil without batting an eye.
124, actually.
See Flag Officers 4 America website.
Re: Flag Officers:
As news of the letter spread, it set off a round of recriminations among current and former military members. One serving Navy officer, who did not want to be identified publicly, called it "disturbing and reckless."
Jim Golby, an expert in civil-military relations, called it a "shameful effort to use their rank and the military's reputation for such a gross and blatant partisan attack," while a retired Air Force colonel who teaches cadets at the Air Force Academy, Marybeth Ulrich, labeled it "anti-democratic."
"I think it hurts the military and by extension it hurts the country," said retired Adm. Mike Mullen, a former chair of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, describing it as replete with "right-wing Republican talking points."
Re: Demonising Trump
Trump demonized himself with his adultery, his lies, his pettiness, his absurd claims of expertise, his support for dictators (remember when he sided WITH Putin AGAINST 13 U.S. intelligence agencies?), his epidemic denial, his prostitute hush money payments, etc.
It didn't take anyolne else to make him look bad. He was bad.
It is NOT true that this story is getting "close to zero coverage in the USA." It has been reported in The Hill, Business Insider, Politico, Huff Post, Yahoo News, Washington Examiner, Salon, NY Post, New York Times, etc.
Anonymous K at 10:24 AM,
Good to see our resident Trump hater showing up. Trump responded to a 24/7 barrage of nasty attacks launched by the so-called "liberal" media. In contrast, Obama receive a daily tongue bath from them - "what enchants you most about the presidency?" one New York Times reporter asked Obama. The legacy media spends its time ignoring Biden's numerous gaffs and nasty comments and disastrous policies. A priest should not be spending his time as a political pundit.
President Biden is a fine Catholic and mentally as sharp as a tack.
Every one of those retired generals and admirals, all 124 of them, must be tin foil hat conspiracy theorists and also men who truly wish to harm the military and their nation with a gross, disturbing right wing partisan attack.
I agree completely.
CNN is now the Biden Booster Network. It is so blatant, so dishonest and so pathetic.
You can keep saying people are Trump haters, but that doesn't make it so.
You keep it up because it makes you feel morally superior. You're not.
Trump invited criticism, then, when it came, he called the media biased.
And you believed the lie.
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