Saturday, May 15, 2021



We know through Faith, that Jesus Christ is One Divine Person with two natures human and divine. 

My experience with the two forms of the one Roman Rite, and even before there were two forms, is that the Traditional Latin Mass may be deficient in showing forth the One Divine Person of Jesus Christ to the point of almost heresy, denying His Sacred Humanity. 

We could also put forth that the Ordinary Form in recovering the Sacred Humanity of our Lord might be guilty of the heresy of neglecting His Sacred Divinity.

Thus with both forms of the one Latin Rite, we have One Divine Liturgy with two natures, humans and divine. The only problems is that all Catholics need to attend both forms of the One Latin Rite to be properly formed in our Orthodox Catholic Faith.

That is why I applauded Pope Benedict XVI’s desire that each form of the One Latin Rite, exert an influence on each other to more closely resemble the Divine Person of Jesus Christ Incarnate, human and divine in His two natures. 

Here are some human and divine moments at our Ascension Vigil Mass (also known as the 7th Sunday of Easter). The two First Holy Communicants are the granddaughter and great grandson of the permanent deacon from the Diocese of Saint Petersburg. He came to be present today, deacon at the Mass and offer his grand and great grandchildren their First Holy Communion, kneeling and by intinction.


Anonymous said...

Sorry this is off topic, but May 13th being the feast of Our Lady of Fatima, I did a little reading and discovered this interesting historical detail:

Fatima was the daughter of Muhammad. History (legend?) has it that that the town of Fatima was named after an Arab woman who converted from Islam to Christianity, married a Portuguese man, and settled down in the region. When she died, he named the area in her memory.

Given the multi-layered cultural history of the Iberian Peninsula, with various cases of conversion and intermarriage as control shifted back and forth between Christians and Muslims, this is easy to believe.

Monica A.

John Nolan said...

Fr Allan

A textual comparison between the classic Roman Rite and Paul VI's Novus Ordo does not support your hypothesis. The way the Novus Ordo is usually performed tends to stress the communitarian aspect of the Eucharist, often to the detriment of the transcendental and numinous - lots of people getting up and doing things, everyday language and music - but this aspect is clearly present in the Roman Rite, albeit not so much 'in your face'.

Some non-Roman rites, e.g. the Ambrosian and the Mozarabic, have been altered to make them conform more to the Novus Ordo, but the results have been less than satisfactory and have not met with universal approval. Creating a false dichotomy between the Roman Rite and the Novus Ordo is not helpful, and attempting to fuse what are in effect distinct rites by fabricating yet another rite would add to the confusion and satisfy no-one.

Anonymous said...

Too right, John Nolan. Will all respect to Fr. Allan, this hackneyed "hermeneutic of continuity" that does mental gymnastics and exhausting explanations to justify the failed Council that is Vatican II and its aftermath is an exercise in futility.

The upcoming generation of priests (for the most part) are showing hopeful signs that they get it.

JR said...

The main issue I have with the Novus Ordo is that far too many clergy seem to be lackadaisical in its celebration. By that I mean they seem to be content to "do the minimum required." There are many options available which would enhance the sacredness of the Mass; some simple things like the use of incense on the more solemn occasions; the solemn blessing at the end of Mass (I haven't heard any of them used in years); maybe use gold vestments on the holiest days, etc. and think about being more reverent in the celebration instead of "likeable". I think more clergy should take the time to look at the Ordo and consider some of the Pastoral Notes included. Also, ALL clergy should take the time to go over the prayers before and after Mass in the back of the Missal. I think this would focus them better.

Richard M. Sawicki said...

JR, I agree. Every time I take out my hand missal and mentally pretend to be a celebrant using a “maximalist approach” to celebrating the OF, it really reveals what a “minimalist approach” most celebrants use as their default setting.

Gaudete in Domino Semper!

John Nolan said...

The Novus Ordo Mass I attended this morning was Solemn (deacon and subdeacon), in Latin (apart from the Scripture readings), faced liturgical east and was preceded by the older Vidi Aquam rite. The Mass setting was by Lassus and the Gregorian Propers were sung as per the Graduale Romanum, apart from the Offertory (Ascendit Deus) which used a polyphonic setting by Peter Philips.

Since the Roman Canon is invariably used, it could almost have passed for a Use of the Roman Rite. However, the different Uses developed gradually over centuries whereas this form of Mass sprang, like Athena, fully armed from the head of Zeus (Bugnini) in the 1960s.

As it's an Oratorian parish it has enough clergy to fill all the roles and a professional choir, but it does demonstrate that the Novus Ordo can be celebrated in continuity with the Roman Rite. And a Mass in English without music is celebrated with the same attention to detail.

Mark Thomas said...

Vatican II, as well as the Novus Ordo, are holy successes throughout Africa and Asia.

Africa, in particular, has been a booming holy success in regard to Vatican II, as well as the Holy Mass of Pope Saint Paul VI.

Our brothers and sisters in Africa, and Asia, would reject as utter nonsense the claim that Vatican II/Mass of Pope Saint Paul VI had flopped.

As Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI has proclaimed for decades: The authentic Council is rooted firmly in Holy Tradition...and has blessed the Church.

Conversely, as Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI has proclaimed for decades: The "Council of the media" — the false 'Council' — has failed in major league fashion.

The teachings proclaimed by the authentic Second Sacred Vatican Ecumenical Council have blessed the Church — as Pope Benedict XVI has declared. If anything, the Church throughout Africa, and Asia, has attested to that.


Mark Thomas

Pope Benedict XVI, 2010 A.D:

“Respect for creation is of immense consequence...Can we remain indifferent before the problems associated with such realities as climate change...?"

Pope Benedict XVI, Angelus- November 27, 2011 A.D:

"The Convention of the United Nations Organization on climate change and the Kyoto Protocol will begin tomorrow in Durban, South Africa.

"I hope that all the members of the international community will agree on a responsible, credible and supportive response to this worrying and complex phenomenon, taking into account the needs of the poorest populations and of the generations to come."

Mark Thomas said...

In 1998 A.D., Cardinal Ratzinger said:

"An average Christian without specialist liturgical formation would find it difficult to distinguish between a Mass sung in Latin according to the old Missal and a sung Latin Mass according to the new Missal."

That may prove even more likely should such an OF Mass feature, as Father McDonald has proposed, ad orientem worship, as well as the reception of Holy Communion on the tongue, while kneeling.

At any rate, the Holy Mass of Pope Saint Paul VI is beloved by a massive amount of Catholics. Just a little "tinkering" is, at bests required to enrich the OF along the lines of the EF.

Pope Benedict XVI declared:

“The two Forms of the usage of the Roman Rite can be mutually enriching:...The celebration of the Mass according to the Missal of Paul VI will be able to demonstrate, more powerfully than has been the case hitherto, the sacrality which attracts many people to the former usage.

"The most sure guarantee that the Missal of Paul VI can unite parish communities and be loved by them consists in its being celebrated with great reverence in harmony with the liturgical directives. This will bring out the spiritual richness and the theological depth of this Missal.”


Mark Thomas.

Pope Saint John Paul II, 1990 A.D:

“In our day, there is a growing awareness that world peace is threatened not only by the arms race, regional conflicts and continued injustices among peoples and nations, but also by a lack of due respect for nature, by the plundering of natural resources...Faced with the widespread destruction of the environment, people everywhere are coming to understand that we cannot continue to use the goods of the earth as we have in the past."

"Industrial waste, the burning of fossil fuels, unrestricted deforestation, the use of certain types of herbicides, coolants and propellants: all of these are known to harm the atmosphere and environment."

"...I should like to address directly my brothers and sisters in the Catholic Church, in order to remind them of their serious obligation to care for all of creation.”

Anonymous said...

Mark Thomas,

I regret already that I am even engaging with you, but a couple of obvious points you've overlooked must be pointed out:

1). Deeming liturgical changes (they are certainly not "reforms" and Vatican II was certainly not a reform council) successful or unsuccessful based on their popularity in 3rd world countries, is not a basis for validity. Pornography is wildly popular in the western world. Does that make it a valid form of "entertainment"?

2). OF COURSE Benedict XVI, Paul VI, JPII and the rest of the postconciliar popes are going to hold the party line on Vatican II. Do do otherwise would be to admit their mistakes. Let's see how the Council is regarded when we have a couple of generations more who can look back more objectively.

Pierre said...

The Novus Ordo is an utter failure. Attendance at Sunday Mass has collapsed. I was taught the primary purpose of the Mass was to offer worship to Our Lord, not to each other.

Mark Thomas said...

Anonymous, I regret already that I am even engaging with you, but a couple of obvious points you've overlooked must be pointed out:

"Deeming liturgical changes (they are certainly not "reforms" and Vatican II was certainly not a reform council) successful or unsuccessful based on their popularity in 3rd world countries, is not a basis for validity."

The basis for liturgical legitimacy is that Holy Mother Church has granted approval to this or that reform.

Your comment in regard to "3rd world nations" is unfortunate. Very poor.

At any rate, the reforms have produced a tremendous abundance of good fruit enjoyed by tens upon tens of millions of Holy Mother Church's children.


"OF COURSE Benedict XVI, Paul VI, JPII and the rest of the postconciliar popes are going to hold the party line on Vatican II. Do do otherwise would be to admit their mistakes."

Their "mistakes?"

Said Popes have pronounced authoritatively upon Vatican II. That which you have labeled the "party line" is known as the Magisterium.

They, not you, were/are authorities in regard to the Council.

That applies most certainly to Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI.

As Cardinal Sarah declared recently:

"Indeed, Benedict XVI is certainly the one who understood Vatican II most deeply."

I will adhere to the True Church's, rather than your, pronouncements upon liturgy, as well as Vatican II.

I regret having engaged you.

But that is that.


Mark Thomas.

Pierre said...

According to the Gallup Poll 75% of American Catholics attended Sunday Mass in 1955 (Mass was in Latin, in the EF Form)

In 2020, before the pandemic Sunday Mass attendance was 20%

Ya, Mark Thomas, the OF has been a HUGEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE success. Does that catastrophic drop spell success to you? Facts are pesky things.

Victor said...

Fr. McD:
"..Traditional Latin Mass may be deficient in showing forth the One Divine Person of Jesus Christ to the point of almost heresy, denying His Sacred Humanity..."

You must consider the Eastern liturgies totally heretical, then, because they understand that the Christ is the 2nd Person of the Holy Trinity. Like the traditional Latin Mass, the Divine Liturgy focuses on making us fallen humans into God, our divinisation that restores our original image of God. That is why Christ became human, to show us humans the way to be God. His humanity, therefore, is a way to God, but it is no longer physical after His ascension into heaven but a spiritual humanity outside of space and time, where He nevertheless can be said to sit on the right hand of God. It is a deep mystery that the traditional liturgies try to impress on us humans with our limited intellects.

So what, then, do you mean by his Sacred Humanity? Can you point to Him in the church as some physical human pal that you can shake hands with to show "love" of neighbour? Is the Eucharist just some piece of bread that you can hug like a pal, or is it really the 2nd Person of the Holy Trinity towards which all knees shall bend?

Anonymous said...

Well Mark Thomas,

Holy Mother Church cannot err.

But some of her wayward sons sure as heck can!

It is a matter of record that the original schemata for Vatican II were sabotaged.
That is not the "work of the Holy Spirit".

It is a matter of record that a select group of (most German) bishops sabotaged the Council.

That is not the "work of the Holy Spirit".

It is a matter of record that the highly flawed Sacrosanctum Concilium did not call for the complete destruction of the Traditional Rite.
That is not the "work of the Holy Spirit".

It is a matter of record that the Consilium's leader, Bugnini, was a freemason.
That is not...etc.

It is a matter of record that "Saint" John XXIII was supposed to reveal the 3rd Secret of Fatima to the world in 1960, and he decided not to.

It is a matter of record that "His Holiness" Pope Bergoglio was not canonically elected--or else it is a matter of record that the members of the Sankt Gallen Mafia who boasted of electing him are lying--you can figure that one out.

The Church has been in chaos, confusion and dissent since Vatican II. That too, is NOT fruit of the Holy Spirit.

When the authorities we SHOULD be able to trust abandon the faith entrusted to them and institutionalize novelty, we have no recourse but to turn to the previous authorities who kept the timeless truths of the faith.

St. Pius V's Quo Primum made it pretty clear that the Rite of the Mass as he codified it, was NOT to be tampered with. THAT IS THE WORK OF THE HOLY SPIRIT.

Don't bother engaging me Mark. I suggest you engage you selective reading of history.

Anonymous said...

So, Pierre, if Vatican 2 had never happened:
(1) We certainly would not have abortion on demand---nope, The Supreme Court would not have found a right to abortion in 1973 because---well, we still would have had the Latin Mass as our primary worship;
(2) No one would be advocating same-sex marriage---there would be no legal recognition of such "unions"
(3) Contraception? Certainly that would have remained outlawed!
(4) Divorce would not have become widespread;
(5) Joe Biden would not have been elected president.
(6) Heck, maybe the Episcopal Church would not have ordained women!

I know some ex-Catholics and none have mentioned the lack of a Latin Mass as the reason they left the Church. Often it is the birth control issue---annulments, divorce---not liturgical issues

So---causation or correlation?!?!

Tom Marcus said...

In defense of Pierre, if Vatican II, as it resulted after its hijacking, had never happened, many of those events likely would NOT have happened, or, at very least would have been postponed or slowed in their impact. Before Vatican II, the Catholic Church was the premiere voice of moral authority in the world and its influence was widespread. After Vatican II, the "new Church" conformed itself to the world and relaxed itself into a joke that cast its authority aside.

As far as contraception remaining outlawed--uh, when did civil law make contraception illegal? I don't remember the FBI confiscating birth control pills.

Whatever reasons your acquaintances give for leaving the Catholic Church don't matter so much as the way the Church handles such losses today. There is no longer a unified message and if you don't like what one priest tells you, you can just shop for another until you hear what you want to hear.

Your scoffing has little basis in reality.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous K at 3:50 pm,

If Vatican II had not occurred people like you would not have been attracted to the priesthood and spent parish time on websites making meaningless comments

Anonymous said...

Hey, Fr. McDonald, TEE JAY EMM says you should stop wasting your pariah's time on your blog ! !

Pierre said...

Tom Marcus,

Bravo! You can find a Democrat operative masquerading as a Catholic priest telling you that voting for the Abortion Party is a moral choice even though Jesus Christ would have said the opposite. I never knew Jesus Christ favored killing the unborn

Anonymous said...

Anonymous K at 7:09 PM,

It’s a little early to be crocked!

Anonymous said...

I never knew TEE JAY EMM thought Fr. Mcdonald was wasting his parishes time posting on his blog!

Anonymous said...

Unlike Anonymous K,

Fr. McDonald is posting useful, substantive information and does not come across as a crackpot, desperate for attention like you.

Censorship Now! said...

Father, you've got a pretty good blog here, but lately there have been a couple of anonymous people who have been ruining everything with their arrogant, contentious, petty and trouble-seeking posts. I would just remind you that you DO have the power to censor, omit and delete. Some of the comments here serve no good purpose whatsoever.

Anonymous said...

Censorship K,