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Monday, November 6, 2017

WAS IT PRE-VATICAN II CLERICALISM OR POST VATICAN II CLERICALISM THAT CAUSED SO MANY CATHOLICS IN SOUTH AND CENTRAL AMERICA TO GO EVANGELICAL AND PENTECOSTAL?

Pope Benedict proposed the hermeneutic of continuity while Pope Francis seems to impose His Holiness' vision for the Church, who embodies clericalism which leads to Catholics disengaging from their Catholic identity?

Crux has an article on yet another book length interview with Pope Francis. What caught my eye is this:

As ever, (Pope Francis) attributes the Church’s failures (in South America) to its distance. The rise of evangelicalism and Pentecostalism, for example, is put down to the Church not being “close to the people. People look for God in a religious way, and want closeness …. The priest is not and cannot be the boss, but a shepherd.”

It appears to me from anecdotal evidence that Catholics, wherever they may be, cease to be Catholic or become something else because of the loss of Catholic identity that is a direct result of interpreting Vatican II in rupture with what preceded this council. 

Then we have to contend with the clericalism of the "spirit" of Vatican II which to a certain degree Pope Francis embodies. He speaks of clericalism as the priest being the "boss" and not a shepherd, yet Pope Francis is the most authoritarian pope we have seen since Vatican II. Spirit of Vatican II clergy, be they bishops, laity or theologians implement their vision of the spirit of Vatican II Church in the most pre-Vatican II authoritatian way. 

I can't speak for South America, but only what I saw in my diocese and in Baltimore when I was in the seminary in the 1970's. 

When parish councils were being developed, new forms of power plays began to develop and what I call "laityism." Pastors had to manipulate parish councils to get their way (much as Pope Francis manipulated the two synods on the family to get his way) and this creates resentments and disengagement from the Church from those who feel that conciliar processes are really a sham and creates more politics in the parish than what is needed. 

I can speak from personal experience in Albany, Georgia when St. Teresa's parish priests decided to renovate its 1950's era church building according to what Vatican II dictated what Catholics churches should look like in light of the new Liturgy. Of course Vatican II made no such pronouncements on removing altar railings, and ripping out altars and a return to the heresy of iconoclasm. Bishops' conferences issued weak letters that clericalism interpreted and implemented as though it was a Vatican II inflatable document!

This meant  that altar railings. and duplicate altars had to be removed, the choir had to be placed next to the altar and confrontational to the congregation and that there had to be seating on all sides of a new smaller, lower and supposedly more accessible central altar. The tabernacle had to be out of sight less someone have a devotional prayer to the reserved Blessed Sacrament during Mass. And statues had to be out of sight during the liturgy less dumb Catholics say devotional prayers to the various saints represented by those visible statues. 

The liberal liturgical consultants the pastor hired also wanted to remove a life size crucifix from the wall that once hung over the old pre-Vatican II altar because Vatican II taught that we should focus on the Risen Lord not the crucified Lord during the "meal " of the new liturgy.  I insisted that it remain and my clericalism prevailed in this regard! The compromise was a Processional cross that was like a Jerusalem Cross made of gold and without the Body of the Crucified Lord upon it--it was empty!

Clericalism in the post Vatican II Church humiliated the laity in their personal piety, praying the Rosary, offering novenas and privately praying before the Blessed Sacrament which this type of clericalism called "Caninite Cookie Worship" which only developed in the Middle Ages when the laity stopped receiving Holy Communion regularly and preferred staring at the Host. 

The laity's very Catholic popular devotions which kept them close to the Lord's Church  and made their personal relationship wth the Lord very deep was mocked and denigrated by this type of clericalism. The desire to kneel for Communion, to receive on the tongue were also mocked and these Catholics marginalized.

Many of these traditional Catholics turned to non Catholic spirituality of. Protestantism and Pentecostalism to fill in the void and the Charismatic Movement developed as well. All of these distanced Catholics from their Catholic identity.

Yes it is clericalism that is the culprit but not the pre-Vatican II type but the post Vatican II type where priests became interior decorators of their revamped sanctuaries and impose their clericalism on the Mass and on the people. 

10 comments:

Gene said...

It is not clericalism...it is unbelief. The Church quit preaching the Gospel of repentance and salvation. The people know unbelief when they see it, so they seek the Gospel elsewhere. Protestant churches experience the same type of migration...people are aware that they are sinners in need of confrontation, exhortation to repent, and freedom from guilt and shame. "Timely" political homilies out of today's headlines, endless exhortations about social programs for the "poor," and perseverating about the Beatitudes just don't get it for those trapped in their sin. But, an unbelieving clergy, or clergy unsure of their own beliefs and still thumbing the pages of their dog-eared "Quest for the Historical Jesus," or who are still underlining in "Kerygma and Myth" cannot preach what they either do not believe or have never been taught to expound. So, the grizzled Pentecostal preacher who wields his Bible like a sword while speaking directly to his neighbors about their drinking, their gambling, and their affairs, or the pulpit whacking Southern Baptist preacher who literally begs sinners down the aisle to the soft strains of "Just As I Am" strikes a deep chord in people who may have never heard it.

Anonymous said...

The history of the close relationship between the Catholic Church and repressive governments in South and Central America probably has far, far more to do with the rise of evangelical and pentecostal religious in that region than anything having to do with clericalism, parish councils, or the interior decoration of churches.

Victor said...

Not clericalism, but forgetfulness of God. Like in the thoughts of this pope, everything boils down to politics in South America, even one's perception of God as if the Gospels were only a social gospel. US styled Evangelicalism and Pentecostalism give one an easy pathway to be closer to God first, considering the Church of Vatican II has lost it, including its liturgy which has become Man centered instead of God centered.

Fr. Allan J. McDonald said...

I think liberation theology has pushed many South and Central Americans out of the Catholic Church into American proselytism of the Protestants, especially the Pentecostal groups. American pentecostalsims and its Catholic charismatic counterpart are normally composed of people who are conservative and right leaning rather than left leaning as is Catholic liberation theology.

Even Pope Francis seems to embrace the socialism or communism of Liberation theology--that turns off faithful Catholics and pushes them to these more conservative groups that aren't Catholic.

I think the most nauseating picture of the pope was with a South American dictator giving the pope a hammer and cycle crucifix. I was personally offended by this image especially in light of Pope Saint John Paul II 's efforts that brought about the downfall of communism in Eastern Europe and the Soviet Union.

Fr. Michael J. Kavanaugh said...

"I think liberation theology has pushed many South and Central Americans out of the Catholic Church into American proselytism of the Protestants, especially the Pentecostal groups."

How has Liberation theology pushed many into other religions?

"Even Pope Francis seems to embrace the socialism or communism of Liberation theology--..."

Where has Pope Francis embraced socialism and/or communism?

Regarding the crucifix, the Pope stated that he understands it as "an expression of protest art." A Vatican spokesman later stated that the pope was told after being given the crucifix that Fr. Espinal had made it "in the spirit of dialogue between ideologies, not as an endorsement of Communism."

Anonymous said...

Post Vatican II clericalism, without a doubt ! It created a Catholicism that was indistinguishable from Protestantism. Once that was created people simply had to choose what church made them “feel good.” The spirituality shifted. Protestants participated in church service, Catholics used to attend the Holy Mass. With Vatican II clericalism Catholics like me became displaced.

Anonymous said...

Bee here:

"A Vatican spokesman later stated that the pope was told after being given the crucifix that Fr. Espinal had made it "in the spirit of dialogue between ideologies, not as an endorsement of Communism."

When I read this I thought, Oh sure. Just like a guy telling his wife he needs to have an affair in order to save their marriage.

:-)

God bless.
Bee

Anonymous said...

:-) An affair is a moral evil.

Accepting a gift, even one that raises eyebrows, is not.

The comparison is not apt.

God bless.

Gene said...

Bee, when I read the Vatican statement, my reflexive response was something about bovine excrement. What is this warm spot the Church has in her heart for collectivist tyrannies and insane dictators?

Anonymous said...

Bee here:

Anonymous at November 7, 2017 at 5:33 AM said, in response to my comment about the hammer and sickle crucifix, "An affair is a moral evil. Accepting a gift, even one that raises eyebrows, is not. The comparison is not apt."

The comment I made was not to say the giving of this gift was similar to an immoral act. The comment I made was to point out how some people will attempt to mask their not-so-good intentions with claims of innocent or even good intentions (in this case, "dialogue" (which has it's own meaning for progressives) and "not an endorsement for Communism". Clearly it IS an endorsement of Communism, and a symbol of Liberation Theology.

I was just saying the excuse made by the giver seemed disingenuous, and when I read it my b.s. meter went off. :-)

God bless.
Bee