Wednesday, November 20, 2013


The ones who should know better, those who want to preserve Catholic Tradition and tradition, seem to be on the same page as looney liberals who disparage the Holy Father except when they like the Holy Father.

The rad trads do the same, they don't disparage the Holy Father when they like the Holy Father. Thus the looney liberals hated Pope Benedict XVI and the rad trads hate Pope Francis.

Both groups do no favor to orthodox Catholicism which is built upon  the two greatest Commandments Jesus taught, complete love of God and love of neighbor, even if that neighbor is a pope.

I wonder if the group of catechumens and candidates my parish has, actually read the vitriolic comments looney liberals have made against Pope Benedict and rad trads have made against Pope Francis, if they would want to join the Church that has produced since Vatican II some of the most sour pusses faces (pickled pepper faces) the Church as ever known?

But worse yet, the example of contempt that the rad trads and the looney liberals give to the popes they don't like is truly off-putting and somewhere between paganism and hell. If I thought all Catholics were like that, I think I'd become a Buddhist or join Cabbala. Or maybe I'd just stay home and worship my god in whatever form I think he exists.

But make no mistake, authentic Catholicism, without the syncretism of Protestantizing influences as attested to by both the rad trads and the looney liberals is about respect and love, first for God and then for each other.

Martin Luther reserved some of his harshest rhetoric for popes, bishops and priests and Calvinist brought this hatred to a new zenith.

When you mix this protestantizing influence of the rad trads and looney liberals with Puritanism, then you have quite a toxic combination.

Catholicism isn't going the route of disrespectful Catholics who pick and choose who they will love, which is precisely what the rad trads and looney liberals do, especially as it regards the pope.

The pope isn't going to sell out Catholicism to protestantism or paganism. The looney liberals prefer paganism and the rad trads prefer radical congregationalism of  protestants as they spin out on their own, but the looney liberals do the same thing but in the opposite direction.

The thing, though,that I like about the rad trads is that you know where they stand in their protestantism. They have ordained their own bishops. They are suspended by the Church, some were excommunicated, but that was lifted.

Only the really, really, really looney liberals have done that, the group that is called womenchurch and have "ordained" "women" "bishops."

For the most part, looney liberals work from within to destroy the true Church and make her pagan or post-Christian.

So, from where I stand, sit and kneel, I'm sticking with the Pope, no matter who that pope is. And the present pope I truly love.

He's celebrated Mass ad orientem.

He celebrates Mass facing the congregation in an "ad orientem" sort of way making sure that his personality does not influence it whatsoever; he maintains the "Benedictine Altar Arrangement" and when processing and recessing to and from Mass, he does not engage the congregation as both Popes John Paul II and Benedict XVI did.

He's celebrated Mass in Latin.

He's called out the looney liberals in the most direct way and thus eviscerates the progressives in a very simply daily homily at his Vatican Motel 6 place of residence, a sign of future magisterial statements from his papal magisterium!

He is in 100% agreement with Pope Benedict XVI in terms of the correct hermeneutic of interpreting the documents of the Second Vatican Council and that is through "reform in continuity!" He praises the Archbishop who took a razor to the Bologna school of the "spirit of Vatican II interpretation within rupture" and suggests that he will be named a cardinal!

He's loves Mary and her devotions and all authentic popular devotions of the laity.

He tells it like it is when it comes to the temptations of the devil.

He hugs the disfigured and disordered, physically, spiritually and morally!

He names orthodox bishops for the USA!

He calls women religious not to be "spinsters" although I think the Italian word is a bit harsher.

He calls for FIDELITY to the pope and bishops of the Church, the MAGISTERIUM!

He wants to find out how many coloring book, rad trads, looney liberals there are out there in the world's dioceses. 


Anonymous said...

His words cause confusion. He commits liturgical abuse because he wants to. He undermines official teachings of the Church by inane statements like "everyone has their own idea of what is good and evil and everyone should follow good"' "the Son of God became incarnate in the hearts of all men to instill a sense of brotherhood". He is the first pope to forbid celebration of the ancient Latin Mass. The entire world loves this man not because he teaches the truths of the Catholic Faith but because they believe he doesn't really believe them. And he refuses to confront and condemn the two greatest evils that are tearing the Church apart: abortion and "gay marriage". Just because he lowers the dignity of the papacy by acting and dressing sloppily doesn't mean he is humble it means he is a liberal. When they install his portrait in St. Paul Outside the Walls they should show him wearing a clown nose because that about sums him up. St. Francis confronted error, condemned it and taught the Catholic Faith. The real St. Francis called non believers to conversion, he didn't say it was "solemn nonsense". And all the "looney" trads have issues with Francis because he doesn't look, act or teach like a pope NOT because he does look, act and teach like a pope.

John Nolan said...

Paul VI was the first pope to forbid the celebration of the classic Roman Rite. His successors have all but admitted that he was acting ultra vires. According to SP a monastic community can decide whether its conventual Mass should be EF or OF. With regard to the Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate, I understand that requests to celebrate the Mass and Office in the older form have been speedily granted. So the sisters at Lanherne, Cornwall, who opted to use only the older books, continue to do so.

Objections to the use of the Old Rite come mainly from the Italian bishops - some of them declared they would go into schism if B16 publicly celebrated it - and early in this pontificate they asked Pope Francis to restrict it. He sent them away with a flea in their ear and the admonition to "respect tradition".

Bishop Malcolm MacMahon of Nottingham (ordained 1982) celebrated the tenth anniversary of his episcopal consecration in 2010 by celebrating a Pontifical High Mass in the Usus Antiquior, and has done so since. The new Bishop of Portsmouth, Philip Egan, has ordered the old Mass to be celebrated in his Cathedral every Sunday. On any Holy Day of Obligation I can attend a TLM at midday in Oxford, and it is well attended, not just by students and professional people in their lunch break, but by young families. Unthinkable even 20 years ago.

There are some aspects of papal liturgies which I don't like, and which also happened under Benedict (the dreadful Italian responsorial psalm replacing the Gradual, the polyglot readings and bidding prayers, and the over-reliance on the hackneyed and mostly non-Gregorian Missa de Angelis) but I have never seen anything amounting to an actual abuse. Then again, I don't live in Rome, and if I did I would probably frequent SS Trinita dei Pellegrini.

Henry said...

The constant attempt to bracket rad trads and looney liberals doesn't work very well. Actually, just doesn't ring true.

Because the looney liberals are pervasively entrenched throughout the Church, controlling many of its power centers from seminaries and chanceries to parish rectories and religious education.

Whereas the rad trads are a pathetic isolated microscopic minority largely outside the Church--in fringe groups like the SSPX--with no influence whatsoever.

So while the looney liberals threaten the very continued existence of faithful Catholicism in whole countries, the rad trads are a threat to no one but their own tiny separatist groups.

In short, one is worthy of comment and worry, an the other is not.

Anonymous said...

Pope Paul VI never forbade the ancient Latin Mass. This determination was made by Pope Benedict after he had a commission investigate if the Mass was ever formally abrogated.

Anonymous said...

"In short, one is worthy of comment and worry, and the other is not". What an unreasonable statement to make. Then by that reasoning why worry about discrimination if it on affects the minority. What a sorry statement to make. It just so happens that it is this minority that actually knows the Faith, loves the Faith and lives the Faith. The liberal "Catholics" are the majority and not only do they not believe what the Church teaches they hate what the Church teaches. The future is with Traditionally minded Catholics because in reality we are the only ones who care enough to stand up to error and evil and fight it. We don't compromise the Faith just to get bodies in the door. I believe Our Saviour said to preach the Gospel in good times and bad and if they refuse to listen to you shake the dust from your sandals and go to the next town. Our Lord never said compromise the Faith in order to make people feel better about themselves.

Gene said...

"Rad Trad" is a slur on devout, believing Catholics. It is the ecclesiological "n" word. If people are going to call us "rad trads," then I want to call the Obama constituency what my Dad and Granddad used to call them. Hey, fair is fair.

Pater Ignotus said...

Pin/Gene - You are not exactly in a position to complain about slurs, since they regularly appear in your own comments about others.

And there are many devout, believing Catholics who do not fall into the Radical Traditionalist category, thanks be to God.

John Nolan said...

Anon, the cardinatial commission which concluded that the Old Mass had never been juridically abrogated was appointed by JP II in 1986 although its decision was not made public at the time. Paul VI ordered in 1969 that henceforth only the new missal could be used, which is tantamount to forbidding the Old Rite. After all, when the Roman Rite had been revised in the past, the new edition had superseded the old. However, Bugnini knew perfectly well that his missal was more than just a revision, and so tried and failed to get the Old Rite formally abrogated.

Gene said...

Ignotus, to the judicious and accurate use of "slurs," as you call them, particularly qualifies me to comment on them. "Radical traditionalist" is a redundancy. Either you are a traditional Catholic or you are something else...all the various designations for what this "something else"is do not matter. Unbelief goes by many names...

Pater Ignotus said...

"Radical Traditionalist" is not a redundancy. All Catholics are Traditional, but not all are, nor should they be, Traditionalists.

Good Father McDonald's use of "rad trad" is clearly negative, and he clearly explains his usage. Rad Trads, like "looney liberals" are outside the mainstream of Traditional Catholicism, either because they 1) don't know what the Church teaches and believes, or 2) they don't like what the Church teaches and believes and want to re-form the Church in a way that suits their politics.

Rad Trads are, at root, Protestants who are unwilling to accept and believe all that the Catholic Church teaches to be revealed by God and true.

Gene said...

So, what about apostate Priests who refuse to answer questions about fundamental beliefs…such as the Real Presence and the bodily resurrection of Jesus? HMMMM…and, according to what we may surmise from your history on this blog, your points 1 and 2 describe you precisely. Oh, the irony…heh, heh.