The National Catholic Register has this article which you can read:
President Biden cannot claim to be both a faithful Catholic and an abortion champion. He cannot have it both ways.
My comments:
Many Catholics, no matter political affiliation, place their political party above the Church. That is a mortal sin of course.
But is there something systemically wrong (not systemic racism, but like it) that enables Catholics to be pro-choice even though it is an excommunicable offense to have an abortion or assist in one as President Biden’s does with his executive orders on abortion as well as his complete support for it?
I think this grave corruption in Catholics be they clergy or laity, is linked to how bishops responded to heinous cases of child abuse. They thought, as well as many lay Catholics, okay, so and so abused a child but look at all the good things he did and does. Get him back to work.
Abortion is right up their with child sexual abuse in its heinous characteristics.
Why is there systemic support of Joe Biden, the second Catholic president, who enables abortion like bishops enabled some of their corrupt priest to abuse children over and over again.
Is there no Boston Globe to put a spotlight on this systemic corruption in the post Vatican II Church as it concerns clergy and laity’s support of the second Catholic president who supports and legally enables abortion to the point of even the most heinous and morally corrupt partial birth abortion.
30 comments:
Uh, maybe the Catholics who voted for Biden (I was not one of them) were more voting against the incumbent, who, lets face it, turned off a lot of voters with his 3am tweets, inflammatory rhetoric, foul language and, quite frankly, unpresidential-like behavior. Catholic voters obviously are not monolithic, unlike blacks for the Democrats and evangelicals for the Republicans. And probably a lot of Catholics are not "single-issue" voters anyway. I think you will, find, though, that Catholics who attend Mass every week or almost so (regular attendance) were more pro-Trump than those who are just "cultural" Catholics or Christmas and Easter ones.
3am tweets, inflammatory rhetoric, foul language and, quite frankly, unpresidential-like behavior are problematic and even sinful in some situation, but it isn't the promotion of baby killing, who by the way, are never the aggressor or the problem.
There is systemic sin that enables Catholic politicians to separate their faith from their politics and in the case of abortion is more egregious than the so-called systemic racism President Biden, the second Catholic president, calls out. Maybe it is too soothe his guilty conscience over abortion and gender ideology????
The first catholic President did not seem to be a saint either. Politicians put politics first above all else.
The first Catholic president may have been corrupt in sexuality and other issues, but he did not support infanticide. There's a difference in these kinds of things, no?
“I believe in a president whose religious views are his own private affair, neither imposed by him upon the nation, or imposed by the nation upon him as a condition to holding that office.” JFK, September 12, 1960.
In other words, keep your faith at home, not in public, for which it should be irrelevant. The issue of infanticide was simply not an issue then, but if it had been, would he have been any different from Mr Biden today?
See also:
https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/18854/jfk-speech-on-faith-was-sincere-but-wrong-archbishop-chaput-states
FATHER MCDONALD SAID..."The first Catholic president may have been corrupt in sexuality and other issues, but he did not support infanticide."
Father McDonald, via his 1960 A.D. speech in Houston to Protestant ministers, JFK had made it clear that the Faith would not inform his public arena decisions.
In 1960 A.D., in regard to abortion in relation to the public arena, I doubt that Church teaching on abortion was of interest to JFK.
That opinion is based upon the following JFK declaration to the Protestant ministers in question:
"Whatever issue may come before me as president — on birth control, divorce, censorship, gambling or any other subject — I will make my decision in accordance with these views, in accordance with what my conscience tells me to be the national interest, and without regard to outside religious pressures or dictates."
JFK was not keen to have the True Faith influence his political stances.
As Archbishop Chaput noted of JFK's address: JFK was an American first...a Catholic second.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
Cardinal Sarah: "In his post-synodal Exhortation on the Family, Amoris Lætitia (“The Joy of Love”), Pope Francis...openly and vigorously defends Church teaching on contraception, abortion, homosexuality, reproductive technologies, the education of children and much more."
Well...
Following up from 140 this afternoon after dinner in the state's "other diocese" (Cobb County, to be more specific)...
Abortion is not on the TV screens every night, unlike Trump's nearly daily diatribes. And while you obviously are distressed that 81 million or so votes were cast for Biden (including nearly two and a half million in Georgia, the most ever for a Democratic presidential candidate in our state), it helps to have a candidate with some personal appeal. JFK's good looks and crisp TV performances helped him beat Nixon in 1960. In 1980, Reagan's charming personality was a better fit than the dour Jimmy Carter, who made few friends by saying we were in an era of limits. Trump could have---and should have---pivoted after the 2018 midterm election, when his party lost 40 seats in the US House (the worst Republican losses since Watergate, even with a good economy). But it didn't. He just doubled down in preaching to the choir. His call late last year asking Georgia's secretary of state to "find" 11,780 votes was the final straw for me...
Now as for abortion---it is just as legal in America now as it was when Trump took office. And even if Roe is overturned (which it should be), it is not as if abortion is just going to disappear overnight in America. In fact, it would be a state by state battle, and doubtless (and unfortunately) it would remain legal in many states (certainly all or most of the Northeast, California, Oregon and Washington, Illinois, etc.). It may be after nearly 50 years of Roe, voters are fatigued discussing the issue. They know Congress is never going to pass anything pro-life because 60 votes are needed in the Senate (and the GOP has not had 60 votes in the US Senate in at least 100 years, maybe more).
If Republicans want to win the presidency in 3 years, yes, have a candidate who supports a lot of Trump's agenda (maybe with a little more fiscal focus as our debt is out of control), but without Trump's personal baggage, of which there is a lot.
MT,
Joe “China” Biden is even less a Catholic than JFK. In 1960 if Biden had spouted the pro abortion views he has today, he would have been excommunicated and would have been unelectable but we had educated, faithful Catholics back then, something you are not familiar with
Father, it makes perfect sense.
The post Vatican II Catholic wears the mantle of the Catholic faith, but it's the mantle of a faith he contradicts. He rejects its teachings, He rejects its traditions, he rejects its past and, in his innermost heart, he hates the Church and wishes to recreate it into something different.
Likewise the modern liberal American wears the name of his country that he purports to love, but its all empty show. He rejects the Constitution. He is ashamed of America's history and only sees it through a lens of condemnation. He rejects the very values that made America so unique. In his innermost heart, he hates America and wants to recreate it into something different.
Self-hating hedonistic Catholics and self-hating hedonist Americans. The perfect match.
Tom Marcus,
You just described many bishops and priests
"Likewise the modern liberal American wears the name of his country that he purports to love, but its all empty show. He rejects the Constitution. He is ashamed of America's history and only sees it through a lens of condemnation. He rejects the very values that made America so unique. In his innermost heart, he hates America and wants to recreate it into something different."
A fine description of Donald Trump!
I cannot speak for Catholics who voted for Biden, even aside from the obvious issues as to why NOONE who values their freedom should vote for big government, but perhaps, as another commenter mentioned, it may have been simply to vote AGAINST Trump. Much to my regret, I voted for Trump. It was a very difficult decision for me. I knew that I certainly wasn't going to vote for Biden, but Trump wasn't a comforting choice either. He enacted bump stock bans and red flag laws. That's a big fat no. And he wasn't pro-life. The treatment he received for covid was derived from humanized mice. Wanna guess how the mice got that way? My spiritual director telling me that as a Catholic, I must choose the lesser of two evils was not good advice. Why must we choose when either choice is evil? Doesn't sound logical to me.
Anonymous K at 7:06 am,
Seek help - you are still suffering from TDS. You should be more concerned with the Anti-American grifter and abortion drooler in the White House
How about basic moral theology: it is illicit to commit an evil act to bring about a good e.g., vote for Trump to end abortion.
Sadly one of Joes biggest supporters is Pope Francis. I wonder sometimes if this duo intends to radically transform both Church and State to create one new radical entity.
I think it would be better for all of us to refrain from the "gotchas" and insults about who voted for who. I voted for Trump because I believed it was the best choice in the election. I have to respect that many people voted for Biden because they had the same conviction about Biden. I am sure many of us disagree. All of the attacks aren't helping anyone nor are they persuading anyone to change his/her mind. I am all for attacking ideas and ideologies that we disagree with, but attacking the idea holder is counterproductive.
Love the sinner, hate the sin. Love the voter, hate what he votes for.
Love the poster, hate what he posts.
That's my sanctimonious homily for the day.
As I watched The Godfather Part II a few nights ago, I heard a quote that I think applies to Democrats and Republicans:
Michael Corleone:
"Senator, we're both a part of the same hypocrisy."
Anonymous K at 10:17,
It would be evil to vote for Biden, clearly. How many wars did Trump start?
You want TDS? Check out attorney Lin Wood:
"Attorney, conspiracist, and Donald Trump superfan Lin Wood posted on Wednesday a series of White House photos with bizarre captions claiming that Trump is still president. To be clear, Wood wasn’t simply restating the right-wing conspiracy theory that Trump is the legitimate president who had the election stolen from him. Rather, Wood claimed that Trump is physically in the White House and serving a second term."
"Early in his legal career, Wood was a personal injury attorney before he pivoted to representing clients in defamation cases. In a profile on Wood last year, The New York Times spoke with several of his former and current associates. “The Lin Wood I see today bears basically no resemblance to the Lin Wood I knew back then,” said one Emory University law professor. The profile noted that Wood was being sued by his former law partners over unpaid compensation. They say he displayed “bizarre, messianic behavior.”
"His call late last year asking Georgia's secretary of state to "find" 11,780 votes was the final straw for me..."
Uh, from everything I've read about that call so far, it is not as it was originally purported to be.
" Much to my regret, I voted for Trump. was a very difficult decision for me. I knew that I certainly wasn't going to vote for Biden, but Trump wasn't a comforting choice either. He enacted bump stock bans and red flag laws. That's a big fat no. And he wasn't pro-life. The treatment he received for covid was derived from humanized mice. Wanna guess how the mice got that way?"
Much to your regret? If after his first 100 days in office you don't grasp that Pres Biden is much.much worse than Mr. Trump (at least where it really counts, which is in his actions and plans), then one can be excused by thinking you have been residing in a cave for the last three months. I didn't much care for Mr Trump's personality and his twitter composed insults either, but the person in the White House is, in more significant ways, worse and even dangerous in what he proposes and who he appoints to his Cabinet and to governmental departments and offices.
"How about basic moral theology: it is illicit to commit an evil act to bring about a good e.g., vote for Trump to end abortion."
Where did you train in moral theology? Voting for Trump was hardly an evil act. One could call it stupid.imprudent, good,bad or ugly, but evil? No.
While all of you are picking each other--no NITPICKING each other--apart about who voted for who, perhaps we should ALL reflect on this question: When, in the last 40 years, have we even HAD a presidential candidate from either of the major 2 parties who wasn't morally compromised in some way?
My point? We ALWAYS have to choose between the lesser of two evils. The election is over and blaming, shaming and exclaiming (outrage/accusations) at each other is a moot point. The world isn't Catholic, but we have to live in this world and make the best decisions we can as Catholics. All this oneupsmanship isn't productive. In fact, it's downright tedious. So please, give it a rest.
I don't agree that we always choose between the lesser of two evils. I choose the person who, in my judgment, is better suited for the office he or she is seeking.
The office is rarely, if ever, reducible to one or two or three responsibilities that are so overwhelming that the other responsibilities may be set aside in makig a prudential judgment.
No, choosing to vote for Trump or Biden could not be considered "evil." That's the kind of counterproductive hyperbole that turns people off altogether.
Anonymous at 1236am:
Trump was recorded as asking Georgia's secretary of state to "find" 11,780 votes. (He lost the state---really---by 11,779 votes). Do you think he was calling the secretary of state to ask about the weather? Trump has also claimed he won Georgia "big", a statement which no one of sound political mind would concur. Does one really think Georgia in 1 cycle would swing from Brian Kemp beating Stacey Abrams narrowly to Trump winning Georgia by say 400,000 or 500,000 votes? If you believe that, well, you know the old saying about the bridge...
But I digress...
It might be said that our present day problem---so many of the "personally opposed, but..." Catholic politicians present or past (take your pick---the Cuomos, Geraldine Ferraro, the Kennedys, Dick Durbin, Ed Markey, Kristin Gillibrand, Tom Harkin---Ok, you get the idea!)---goes back to the failure of many bishops to take disciplinary action back in the 1980s, when a lot of those politicians surfaced. Thus, these days, to discipline them looks like a measure of desperation---which it probably is. "Dialogue" with Biden is fine, but it cannot go on forever without results. At the very least, as bad as the present-day situation is with abortion, he should not be working to expand access to it, like repealing the Hyde Amendment, or sending family planning funds overseas to groups who perform abortions. How the national Democratic party got so far left on abortion is worthy of a book. Was it the reforms the party took after the crazy 68 convention in Chicago that made the party far-left (like leading to the nomination of McGovern?) Was it Catholics bolting to the Republicans? Any idea out there?
Yeah, you Do digress. Don Lemon's talking points are pervasive enough already.
Yawn.
The Anonymous who posts here with TDS is a Democrat operative masquerading as a Catholic priest - a true disgrace
Don Lemon's talking points? Uh, I don't watch him. Too liberal for my tastes. But like I said, if anyone thinks Trump was not pressuring Kemp (who he foolishly asked to resign) or Raffensperger (who our 2 ex-senators asked to resign lest Trump not campaign for them) to "change" the results, or thinks Georgia is still a solidly red state, well, there is always the proverbial bridge...
On a brighter note, the chancellor of the Savannah diocese spoke at our parish in 30327 about the case for beatification of the Georgia martyrs. We all learned a lot of geography about the coast and history up to Oglethorpe's times. Ended his homily lamenting the decline of Catholic marriages, says he keeps track of those in the Diocese and stats not goo, though I suspect part of that may be there are a lot of rural parishes in the diocese, maybe less than 100 or 200 members in places---not going to have many weddings in those parishes.
Anon 9:52 - Parishes record all the stats - baptisms, first communions, confirmations, marriages, deaths - and most of these are reported to the diocese each year. In turn, the numbers, among others, are sent to Rome.
They are published in the Annuario Pontifico for the universal church in these categories:
Su – area in square kilometers of the diocesan territory
pp – population of the diocese
ct – number of Catholics
pr – parishes and quasi-parishes
ch – churches or mission stations
sd – secular priests resident in the diocese
dn – diocesan priests ordained during the year
sr – religious priests resident in the diocese
rn – religious priests ordained during the year
dp – permanent deacons
sm – seminarians taking courses of philosophy and theology
rm – members of men's religious institutes
rf – members of women's religious institutes
ie – educational institutes
ib – charitable institutes
ba – baptisms
I thought a good strategy for voting was:
Vote for the American Solidarity Party candidate for president.
Vote for all Republicans for other offices to mitigate the evils of a possible Biden presidency.
What is the American Solidarity party? Never seen it on the ballot here in Georgia....
The American Solidarity Party is not on the ballot. You have to write in the cadidate(s). Here is their website:
https://solidarity-party.org/
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