Recieving Holy Communion while standing as though in a chow line, with the option of taking the Host in one's hand and in a plethera of modes of doing so, from grabbing to cupping, as well as receiving from a batallion of so-called Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion has done nothing, absolutely nothing, to increase real belief in the real Presence of our Eucharistic Lord.
Every priest I know can describe the various ways the laity receive Holy Communion that are contrary to the liberal norms that are codified. We all know, too, that many who receive Holy Communion seldom if ever recieve the Sacrament of Penance and live in situatioin completely contrary to the teachings of Christ seldom attending Mass but always receiving the few times a year they do attend Mass.
Every priest I know can describe situations depicted in these videos. I have seen parents break a piece of the Host off, to give to an illegible child a portion of Holy Communion to placate the child who wants it. I have found Hosts on the floor, in hymnals/missalettes and have witnessed laity walking off with the Host and leaving the Church with it.
We have seen consecrated Host on eBay for sale especially if they were consecrated by a pope.
What will it take for the pope and bishops to wake up and admit the experiement after Vatican II and not called for by Vatican II of allowing Communion to be received in any other method rather than kneeling and on the tongue was wrong headed and contributes to the loss of belief in the real presence by 80 % of Catholics and contributes to sacrilege similar to what is seen in these videos!
VIDEO: Man receives communion, puts host in pocket, walks away
SEPTEMBER 2, 2019 BY DEACON GREG KANDRA
That appears to be exactly what happened in the video below, posted on Twitter last week. It’s unclear where or when this was taken. But it’s gotten a lot of attention and generated a fair amount of comment. You can see it for yourself here. It’s pretty outrageous, any way you slice it. But I have questions.
That appears to be exactly what happened in the video below, posted on Twitter last week. It’s unclear where or when this was taken. But it’s gotten a lot of attention and generated a fair amount of comment.
28 comments:
I was once a member of a parish in another city that had two ushers specifically in place to make sure all communicants consumed the Host at Communion. While that might sound like a good idea, it's really pretty sad that we've gotten to that point.
What saddens me the most is to go to ANY parish (except for the few FSSP parishes) and see children receiving their first Holy Communion. In virtually EVERY case, those children receive their first Communion in the hand and each time they do, it symbolizes the apparatchiks successfully indoctrinating another generation into their Novus Ordo, Postconciliar, Moral Relativist, New Church mindset. NO ONE TELLS THESE KIDS THAT THE WORLDWIDE NORM IS TO RECEIVE ON THE TONGUE AND RECEIVING IN THE HAND IS AN OPTION--JUST AN OPTION. And no one can explain to them the deplorable and deceitful artifice employed by the U.S. Bishops under Cardinal Bernardin (of shameful memory) that foisted this travesty upon us in the first place.
So these poor young Catholics will go for years doing it this way and, naturally, be defensive when someone finally points out that there is a better way. When we get used to something and get comfortable with it, we are far more likely to defend the practice rather than change it. That's just human nature. Just look at all the seniors receiving in the hand after their indoctrination in the 1970's.
You hit a nerve here Father. This issue really gets me mad.
"...and not called for by Vatican II"
No way! V2 called for "active participation above all else" of the faithful in the liturgy. The faithful actively participate as real priests at the Mass by placing the sacred host, given to them by a mere presider, directly into their mouths by their own selves.
The modernists knew that the radical changes to the liturgy that they desired could only come later through the insertion of such ridiculously ambiguous and dangerous catchphrases in the official documents.
A practice born out of insubordination. Never did it, have no interest in doing so. Why not just have a drive-through window and people can pull up for a host!
Bee here:
Well, it sure seems like the Satanists who perform Black Masses believe in the Real Presence!
God bless.
Bee
So, receiving by standing, as opposed to kneeling, was "Wrong-headed"? Guess I would have to tell those first century Christians who received by standing---as is the long-standing practice of the Eastern Orthodox Church--that they were "wrong." Or rather, that this is an issue of small "t" tradition, not "Big T" tradition.
As for the issue of children wanting to receive, well we could embrace the eastern tradition of doing the sacraments of initiation all at once.
And on another subject, prayers for coastal Georgia in the coming days. I'm glad the region remains lightly populated compared to Atlanta---it would be a mess trying to evacuate millions from our coast if we had to. Not that we don't have our weather issues inland in Georgia, like occasional ice storms (mainly) north of I-20 or flooding, but nothing on level of Dorian.
Bee here:
Obviously the first century Christians had more direct knowledge of and more control over who was receiving Holy Communion than priests do today. I expect the circumstances were quite different then. Obviously we have a problem today that needs to be addressed.
God bless.
Bee
All of these bad practices, i.e. Communion in the hand, Communion under both species, altar girls, extraordinary ministers, standing for Communion and so on began as acts of disobedience mostly under "Saint" John Paul II. You can see all sorts of people from the very devout to the non believers (and I sometime suspect the non-baptized) going up to receive, especially at weddings and funerals and the high holy days of Christmas and Easter. Many not having a clue what they are doing and Who they are receiving. The bishops do not seem in the least bit concerned.
One recent practice, that I simply do not understand, is people and especially children coming in the Communion line to be "blessed." I always thought the Communion line was to receive Holy Communion? When I go to a graduation or a wedding, I don't get in line to get married again. Once was enough. I graduated when I graduated. I have seen that even Cardinal Burke does this. He should know better. At the end of the Mass, the priest blesses everybody.
Good article on One Peter Five https://onepeterfive.com/hand-tongue-eucharist/
Who’s to blame bishop’s And lazy faithful who stood by in the 70’s and remained mostly silent. I’m done with silence and weak pathetic shepherds.
“As for the issue of children wanting to receive, well we could embrace the eastern tradition of doing the sacraments of initiation all at once.”
I’m with you on that. Being a life-long Roman, but for a time having spent six years in an Eastern Catholic Rite (being attracted to the focus and reverence in that Liturgy), I learned how that tradition of Chrismation melds personal spirituality with very strong family bonds.
That isn't an isolated case. I recall a US politician getting caught doing the same thing several years back. While on the communion line I have also noticed parishioners delaying in consuming the host, either for the sake of adoration or waiting for the chalice. Some priests do make a point of reviewing the proper way to approach communion during a sermon annually. Lets not forget about the Vatican mega-Masses. Its no surprise that most Catholics don't believe in the real presence anymore. It is surprising the ordained don't do more to correct the situation
Bee,
Leftwing loons don’t care about those stinking facts. It is all about feelings, whoa, whoa, feelings!
Anonymous at 7:15 pm. Yes, I forgot about the Vatican Mega Masses. I was at one once and at a Papal Mass here in the United States. The distribution of Communion was horrible. People taking it in their hands and passing it back and other putting it in their purse to keep as a souvenir. I thought, "how horrible this is."
Anonymous Anonymous said...
So, receiving by standing, as opposed to kneeling, was "Wrong-headed"? Guess I would have to tell those first century Christians who received by standing-
well guess what, I did some research on that on my long defunct blog, yes they received on the hand, the right hand after it was inspected by the priest to make sure it was clean and then were required to lick off any crumbs in front of the priest before they moved on, later they were required to use a black glove so as to see any crumbs and then lick them off, leading to the housling cloth at the rail and the paten to catch crumbs btw very few received because they trembled at the thought of not being worthy, most were educated in their faith to understand the idea of attending MASS not receiving the host, was what counted, adoration not necessarily receiving so to speak, so i say bring it on, I want to see people licking their hands, and btw eastern orthodox are spoon fed by the priest as they stand, wanna try it, sound much more respectful to me than a conga line handing the host out like Xmas crackers
Nothing is going to move the current hierarchy of the church. They are fully invested and committed to the path they are on. Oh, and with 52% of the Cardinal Electors having been elevated by this Pope, we can be sure, sadly, that the trajectory we are on is likely to accelerate. The "Kumbayah Crowd" has triumphed.
Tom Makin,
The Kumbaya Crowd is old and will not be with us much longer although they can cause a lot of damage before they depart this earth. Besides, the hierarchy has little affect on the daily lives of the man in the pew.
'
When I see young priests in their 20s and 30s I know the Kumbaya Crowd has lost. The younger clergy is far more traditional than their elders and in the not so distant future they are going to be in positions to implement their vision for a restored Catholicism. I am seeing this now in my own parish. My young pastor, age 32, wears a cassock, a maniple when vested for Mass, has restored the sanctuary to actually look and feel like a Catholic one (adopted the Benedictine arrangement), has restored the use of bells, dispensed with altargirls, uses only the Roman Canon for Sunday Mass, and celebrates the EF monthly.
When I look around at other parishes who have young priests, I am seeing the same thing. Although the bishop might be a doubleknit dinosaur clinging to the failures of Vatican Disaster II, there is only one of him, but many more young priests who simply do not share the bishop's myopic vision. He can't fire them all, and surprisingly, there are not many, if any, left-wing loonies joining the seminary these days.
Liberalism (fake liberalism, that is) is a spent force in Catholicism even though PF and his ilk may not acknowledge that simple fact.
Tom,
While I share your hope and have observed much of the same, I have also observed the consequences that some of these young priests have suffered. Many of them are marginalized by their pastors. They are even publicly rebuked. I have watched younger priests preach against artificial birth control only to be scolded by the pastor because the status quo congregants were offended. One priest publicly spoke out against anyone attending a gay "wedding" and his pastor refused to allow him to preach for several weeks.
I guess the good news is that this will only strengthen their resolve for when the geriatric liberal priesthood finally (and gratefully) leaves us.
TJM
I pray you are right. I too have seen similar beginning to take hold BUT....the near term (30 years) damage that is likely to hold sway due to this last dying, Francis inspired/enabled/encouraged gasp, will be profound. In hindsight, I am beginning to feel more and more betrayed by Pope Benedict. Clearly he was not ill or dying when he resigned. He was fully capable of continuing the reform of the reform. His loss, "cowardice"? is more impactful than I originally thought.
Sooner or later someone will tut-tut that this rarely happens, it's just like "Clown Masses," a minor thing.
I have offered Mass in lots and lots of places and all over, I have seen people come to communion who clearly haven't a clue, not a clue, what is going on. They will take the Host and simply not know what to do with it. They are not intentionally disrespectful; they are ignorant (not an insult). Please don't tell me this sort of thing is rare, my own experience tells me otherwise.
Here's what I do:
- If someone approaches who seems unsure what to do, I ask quietly, "Have you made your First Communion"? This works both for adults and children; if they have, they know to nod yes; if they don't respond, I say, "May you receive Jesus in your heart" in lieu of Holy Communion.
- I always watch discreetly as I give out the Host. Almost always, people consume Jesus immediately, occasionally, people take a step or two; and again, almost always, they place the Host in their mouths right away. But some people are clearly lost at sea and don't know what to do with the Holy Eucharist. I will lean over, or walk over, and quietly ask that person either to consume the Host or return Jesus to me.
- I have given instructions about receiving Holy Communion, either in the homily or just before Holy Communion. But the sad truth is, some people are simply oblivious, and unless you really flap your arms and are pretty blunt, it just goes over their heads. A brief mention isn't terribly effective, I suspect (how can I know)?
Meanwhile, in parish, I have decided to encourage all to receive on the tongue (I can't require it). I wish the bishops would go back to kneeling for communion, but that's not my decision. But I certainly don't discourage anyone from kneeling, and once or twice a week, I'll put out kneelers, so that if people elect to kneel, they can do so without difficulty.
Tom Makin said:
Nothing is going to move the current hierarchy of the church.
Here's the stunning twist to all this. What does Sacrosanctum Concilium, the Vatican II document on the liturgy say? That the Mass and the Eucharist are the "source and summit" of the Christian life! Source and summit: sounds a lot like "alpha and omega," and of course, it is quite true. I reiterate: this is Vatican II.
Yet what do so many clerics, including bishops, do and say, not only by inaction, but by their very words? Other things are more important. They so often will dismiss these as issues of mere detail. But the Mass and the Eucharist are the "source and summit"; isn't getting the Source and Summit exactly right pretty darn important? What's more important than our Source...and our Summit? If you are flying an airplane and chart a course for a distant destination, a very slight error will leave you wildly off course. Mere details and minor adjustments are everything. Same with designing and building really big, complex things.
TJM -- the phenomenon you report is widespread. And you are certainly not the only one noticing. But there doesn't seem to be much anyone can do about it, if they are of a mind to deter it.
Bee here:
TJM said, "The Kumbaya Crowd is old and will not be with us much longer although they can cause a lot of damage before they depart this earth. Besides, the hierarchy has little affect on the daily lives of the man in the pew."
Well, you must not have seen the latest. The vicar general of his holiness for the diocese of Rome, Cdl. Angelo De Donatis, recently put out a couple of letters of pastoral guidelines for priests in the diocese of Rome.
Here are a couple of excerpts from that are particularly interesting:
"There was a time in which the Church believed the gifts of the Holy Spirit were wisdom, understanding, counsel, fortitude, knowledge,piety,and fear of the Lord. But this is now forever obsolete."
"We must abandon the old concept that the process of conversion requires personal prayer, constant turning to God, love for Jesus. No,true conversion requires the creation of a pastoral team (just for convenience, we might as well call it soviet, collective, or cell)."
"As you know, the process of conversion and renewal taking place in our Diocese … requires the creation, in each parish … of a pastoral team that can take care of everyone's path. … I advise you to choose twelve people. …Don't look among those who have shown to be prudent, measured and detail-oriented, but on the contrary, look for people "outside the lines"..."
"We don't need competent and qualified professionals as much as Christians who are apparently like everyone else but, in reality, are able to dream, to infect others with their dreams and eager to experience new things."
Hard to believe this is could be just a poor translation.
Sounds like it's blast off time for the New Catholic Church. I am wondering if the "pastoral team" model is designed to replace the "Kumbaya Crowd" once they are rotting in the ground. I also wonder also how long before this model becomes standard in all parishes in all dioceses. Won't THAT be fun...
God bless.
Bee
Father Fox,
Fortunately, I have escaped the Chicago Archdiocese where traditional priests are actively persecuted. Fortunately, I now belong to the Diocese of Fort-Wayne-South Bend, where we are blessed to have Bishop Kevin Rhodes, a tradition friendly bishop. As long as he is bishop (should be another 10 years at least) I am confident the "biological solution" will have wiped out the remaining let-wing loonies in charge today. In my observations, I find that the young priests we now have generally come from staunch, traditional Catholic families, not "progressive" ones. I know my pastor came from such a family, a farm boy from Ohio. That is my I am so confident the Church will self-correct, but it will be a much smaller Church, ruined by !#&!% (can't state the words I would like to describe these miscreants).
Bee,
I would expect no less from the last gasps of one of the double-knit dinosaurs. The Cardinal's statements are meaningless, pablum designed to reassure him that his failures are not his failures. I suspect an overwhelming number of clergy there, particularly the younger ones, will ignore his silly rant.
Statements like that will have no affect on my young pastor who I am pleased to say was trained to celebrate the EF at St. John Cantius.
God Bless you
Some things I find interesting as an Orthodox commenting on Western Holy Communion...
1. Often times a quote is used from St Cyril of Jerusalem. He's not even member of the Roman church (being a member of Jersualem Patriarchate church). Even then, this quote was dubious in nature being opposite of what the church in Jerusalem practices). So a justification doesn't even come from a western father, which I've always found quite a bit strange.
2. I have received in Orthodox churches kneeling without a problem. (This is usually when the priest is short, and I'm a relatively tall person, so they would not be able to reach my mouth comfortably). Sometimes there are people who fall prostrate before Our Lord. There is a whole theology behind standing in the East, which in the West doesn't seem to fit within the context of their Liturgical traditions.
3. The real scandal is receiving in the hand. I've only seen it in the Assyrian church of the East...and even then you can receive Communion on the tongue no problem.
4. Returning the west to Intinction solves two problems that need to be solved. One, it gets rid of EMHC's in the Mass. (No problems having EMHC's for the homebound, priests can't be everywhere and I do think this makes it easier) (In the East, deacons (or on occasion subdeacons) take on this role, when priests can't) 2nd It eliminates Communion in the Hand, which is one of the biggest scandals to us Orthodox (and traditional Catholics). On a prtactical level it amkes eating the Host much much easier :p.
5. I also believe the West should return to the practice of having blessed bread (Antiphoron, Mrivanya), Blessed bread that isn't Holy Communion for disribution for the Faithful. (It can easily be given in the hand, and anyone can hand it out). (Thus giving the lay people something to do :p)....The idea using the blessed bread to help people to strive to Holy Communion....but alas.
6. The DNC at prayer (occasionally known by the letters USCCB) is much too busy supporting certain projects to ever be concerned with interior transformation (aka the Liturgy) which is the primary cause of of this crisis.
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As far as kneeling, my advocacy is limited to the Latin Rite. It was part of the Roman liturgy for a long time, and I simply don't see any advantage to jettisoning it, not even for practical reasons.
As far as "blessed bread," when you say, "return to the practice," do you mean to say this was a Roman practice at one time? Even if it was, I suspect it has been a very long time, and I think it would not work in the context. My gut tells me people would get confused about whether it is the Eucharist or not.
Fr Fox,
I support kneeling for the Roman Rite...I'm only pointing out since virtually the rest of the churches receive standing, I suppose ending hand communion is actually what needs to happen first.
Yes, a time many ages ago, there was blessed bread in the Roman Rite. It'd be easy to not confuse for the Eucharist since In the west unleavened bread is used. The blessed bread can be leavened.
I think all is not hopeless. All Of our daily Mass attendees at St. Josephs in Macon, Ga. now receive kneeling at the altar rail (as is done with the Latin Mass) and I believe 99% receive on the tongue during this daily Novus Ordo Mass. This, I believe has been an evolved process. It started with Fr. McDonald and Fr Vernon praying the Latin Mass when they were pastor and asst. We had Sunday Latin Mass once per month and weekly Latin Mass each Tuesday. When they were transferred we received 2 more priests who had never prayed the Latin Mass. We approached the new pastor Fr. Wenchel and he agreed to learn the Mass and would continue the practice of once a month on Sunday. It has become a pretty well attended Mass, especially among young families with children. Fr. Wenchel prays the Latin Mass with much reverence and this has transferred over to when he does the Novus Ordo. In my opinion, this in turn affects the people in the pew. I love to see this happening. The Holy Ghost has done marvelous things for our parish since Fr. McDonald became pastor and afterwards. In fact we had a debt of 3 million dollars which has since been wiped out by an anonymous donor and our many ministries are flourishing and we are even trying to form a 3rd Order Carmelite group. We have a 24 hr Adoration chapel which probably needs more attendees which I feel will eventually be overflowing. May God be praised because good and holy priests will be the answer to the salvation of the Church and humanity in this godless era of history.
David Burkovich,
Father McDonald planted the seeds which are still bearing fruit today. Father Wenchel is indeed a generous priest. Others priests who post here should heed his example.
My first experience with Catholicism was at St. Joseph with Fr. McDonald as pastor. I just assumed every mass had incense, chant (even in english), kneelers for communion (kneeling optional but encouraged), and reverence. I joined the Church in that time but since then I had to move away from work. Going out to other parishes around the country, it feels like I left an oasis for a desert. Quite a shock when I assumed the oasis of my formation was the norm. It has challenged my faith on a visceral level but my intellectual formation has sustained me despite this.
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