There are attempts worldwide to force priests to inform law enforcement if a crime is confessed to a priest in the Sacrament of Penance. This is particularly true for sins of child sexual abuse which are crimes, depending on the state you live. For example in South Carolina and New Hampshire 13 year old boys and girls can get married civilly with parental permission which means that there is dating going on prior to the wedding. With same sex marriage in these states where is the line drawn in terms of sexual abuse?????????????
I watched Ode to Billy Jo on TCM the day after Hurricane Dorian. This 1970's movie depicts an older man in a very sympathetic way who has sex with Billy Jo a teenage boy. No where in the movie is this man's relationship with a teenage boy depicted as illegal or perverted although the teenager eventually commits suicide because he thinks he's gay not so much because of being abused by an older man. It reflects the mores of the the 1960's and 70's which explains a lot in terms of why there is so much sexual abuse centered on priests of this period as well as the general population.
But back to the confessional. Traditional confessionals with separate compartments for the priest and penitent and no option for face to face, meaning the grill is opaque or covered with a cloth of some kind, would give priests another layer of security in terms of unjust laws the state might pass to force us to report penitents to the police for various crimes. If the confession is anonymous, as it should be, how can I report a crime committed by the penitent to law enforcement?
19 comments:
I'm getting ready to "re-do" the Reconciliation room in such a way as to eliminate the possibility for face to face for exactly this reason.
Good for you Father Joseph Mack. It would be good if other priests followed your example.
Liberal fascists strike again!!!
did some research years ago, the "box" was instituted centuries ago to prevent the allegations of sexual wrongdoing between priests ad women, seems for many centuries confession was done kneeling in front of the priest many times folding your hands in his lap. To finally stop the rumors "?" of priests taking advantage of women in this position the "box" was instituted to seal the priest from contact with the penitent, stopping all such allegations and innuendo. the rise of modern sex abuse claims roughly follows the rise in face to face confession, many times in the rectory and some in youth group informal settings. I was involved in one such "confession group" in my youth, when I expressed my unease our pastor informed me it was mandated by ---you guessed it V2, take it or leave it you had no choice and better get on the wagon. I didn't go to confession for almost 20 years because of that. only for my wedding did I go. I recently have found some parishes that now use the box for something except folding chair and song book storage and have gone back from time to time. V2 took tradition based on centuries of experience and tossed the whole lot, guess the "church" will have to learn the lessons all over again
Under current law, if you have knowledge of a person admitting to a crime and you do not report that crime, you may be liable for the failure to do so under state and federal law.
Say you overhear two people in your church parking lot describing the elements of a murder they have committed - you don't see them since they are on the other side of an SUV - you are not absolved from the moral and/or legal obligation to determine who has made the admission and reporting that to law enforcement. Or if the people you overhear are planning a murder, do you think that you are not morally obligated to intervene by going to the police?
I suspect the same might well be true for an "anonymous" confessional.
Now, laws that seek to overturn the priest/penitent privilege are wrong-headed and will probably not stand constitutional muster. But I don't think you can say, "Well, I didn't see the person" is a valid argument against reporting a crime in general.
Anonymous at 12:12,
Has a priest ever asked your identity in the confessional?
Bee here:
It seems to me to argue that we have the responsibility to police our neighbors by snitching is a little over the top. Perhaps morally and ethically I have a duty to report a crime to protect someone from being a victim of that crime, but I think it is going too far to say the state can compel me to report a crime under penalty of law.
And I ask myself, what about lawyer/client privilege? Do lawyers have a duty to report that their client has confessed to a crime, even a sexual crime against children? No, they don't. And I doubt that is going to change.
Furthermore, I almost think the law is laughable, and more for show, because there are so few confessions nowadays, less than a half hour a week takes care of it for most parishes. Who exactly do they think is making such confessions that there needs to be a law about it? Priests to other priests? Yep, that's probably it.
I was listening to a podcast yesterday about life in the Middle Ages, and it seems that especially in small towns and rural communities, control of daily life by authorities was very much dependent on this kind of neighbor snitching on neighbor. You can imagine how oppressive that must have been.
The more things change, the more they stay the same.
God bless.
Bee
Well, this part of the Code of Canon Law seems to be very clear to me: Can. 964 §1. The proper place to hear sacramental confessions is a church or oratory.
§2. The conference of bishops is to establish norms regarding the confessional; it is to take care, however, that there are always confessionals with a fixed grate between the penitent and the confessor in an open place so that the faithful who wish to can use them freely.
§3. Confessions are not to be heard outside a confessional without a just cause.
However, in penitential services especially during Advent and Lent with a lot of priests present, this law is ignored.
Bee,
Fabulous response. I particularly enjoyed your "priests to other priests" comment. Comedy Gold!
A reconciliation room can easily be designed so that a penitent can choose between anonymous, behind-a-screen confession or a face-to-face confession. These are very common.
"A just cause" is having more priests than confessionals and 125 people at an Advent of Lenten penance service. Setting up stations in the sacristy, the corner of the church, the altar servers' vesting room is perfectly in line with the Canons.
Reporting a crime is not "snitching." You become aware that a co-worker is embezzling from the company you both work for. Reporting that thief is a moral and a legal requirement. The state has a strong basis for compelling you to report crimes - that is, the Common Good.
A person who has a rightly formed conscience, will, as a good Christian, be informed and directed by that conscience to report to authorities on any observed or credible knowledge of criminal activity. One exception to reporting a crime would be if the person's life would be endangered by doing so. Also, If the state needs your testimony to convict a defendant and you refuse to testify you can be held in contempt of court. It is your obligation as a good citizen to report crimes and to testify at a trial if necessary. Of course, a priest cannot be compelled to testify on what he has heard in confession though there have been efforts to change that which thankfully have not been successful.
Bee here:
Anonymous at September 12, 2019 at 5:11 PM said, "Reporting a crime is not "snitching." You become aware that a co-worker is embezzling from the company you both work for. Reporting that thief is a moral and a legal requirement. The state has a strong basis for compelling you to report crimes - that is, the Common Good."
I don't agree.
God bless.
Bee
Legal Requirement: "When you are at work, you may be subject to state and federal laws that impose certain reporting obligations that do not apply to the general public. If you work in a field covered by extensive government regulation, such as health care and education, it’s highly likely that you have some mandatory reporting duties. Governments typically enact such laws to protect persons who may be particularly vulnerable, such as children, the disabled, and the elderly. And some professionals have mandatory reporting requirements even where no vulnerable victims are involved. For example, environmental crimes like mishandling hazardous waste and financial crimes like money-laundering typically require witnesses to report what they know."
At what point does the failure to report a crime become cooperation in that crime?
If I know a co-worker is embezzling but fail to make this known to the employer, am I not enabling that crime, allowing further harm to come to the company, and failing in my duty as a Christian to confront the sinner?
""Be on your guard! If your brother sins, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him." Luke 17:3
The American system of jurisprudence is based on the premise that the individual has the right to be left alone. For example, there is no duty to rescue a person from drowning unless you are the lifeguard.
Anonymous = No understanding of the sacrament.
Co-workers do not mean priest/penitant relationship.
And may I suggest police DON'T want to hear that "some unknown/unnamed person said they committed some crime, some time, on some person..."
They're going to want names. What's next, a sign in sheet?
This anonymous has a good understanding of the Sacrament of Penance.
This anonymous never suggested that "co-worker" is in any way equivalent to the "priest-penitent" relationship.
If one knows that a co-worker is known to be embezzling, there is, I would suggest, a very good chance that his/her identity is known. In which case, the police or the employer will not hear "someone unknown to me" is stealing. Rather, they will hear "John Smith who works in the accounting department" is taking money."
TJM - If there is no duty to aid a person who is in danger, one wonders why, in the parable of the Good Samaritan, neither the Priest nor the Levite who passed by the man beaten by robbers is considered the hero of the story or the model for true Christian behavior.
You might to well to reflect on the words of St. John Chrysostom who said about this parable, "Let us not overlook such a tragedy as that. Let us not hurry past so pitiable a sight without taking pity. Even if others do so, you must not." and " “Therefore, when you see someone in need of treatment for some ailment of the body or soul, do not say to yourself: ‘Why did so-and-so or so-and-so not take care of him?’
Chrysostom sums up this way: "No fasting, no sleeping on the ground, no watching and praying all night, nor anything else can do as much for you as saving your brother can accomplish.” (All from Eighth Homily against the Judaizers 4: 1-3)
Bee here:
Anonymous the Troll is back....
Don't feed the troll.
God bless.
Bee
Thank you, Bee, for the comment. But, I suspect that was just the hors d'oeuvre!
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