It seem that the Archbishop of Philadelphia, Charles Chaput, a known person of high orthodoxy, is in a running controversy with Jesuit Father James Martin about how the Church treats homosexuals and all the LGBTQ stuff out there now. You can read about the archbishop's concerns here:
But that begs the question and answer, do orthodox Catholics focus more on sex and getting hyper about immorality surrounding it and forgo the bigger social justice issues, like climate change, nuclear war, hunger, poverty and the rest of it?
Do progressive heterodox Catholics ignore the sexual moral teachings of Jesus which He has inspired the Magisterium to teach for a couple of thousand years in favor of the larger issues like global warming? Why do they obsess on what most people can't change because like terminal cancer death will happen and ignore personal issues which most people can change, like sexual immorality?
And what about climate change? Can we actually do anything about it? Is it the cancer that will lead to the final consummation of the world and the Last Judgement? Are progressives in denial about this terminal disease and in denial about the cancer of sexual immorality that could lead to the eternal fires of hell if not properly repented and a moral way of life adopted?
Just wondering?
29 comments:
I just listened to a talk by Bishop Sheen. He made an interesting observation: Normal guilt often has an abnormal manifestation. He particularly mentioned how in the political sphere there is an obsession with social justice, often from politicians who personal sins were glaring, while they railed against poverty and hunger.
Sounds like it's not just politicians any more.
This makes pretty clear why Absp Chaput will never become a cardinal under this papacy.
No
Father McDonald said..."But that begs the question and answer, do orthodox Catholics focus more on sex and getting hyper about immorality surrounding it and forgo the bigger social justice issues, like climate change, nuclear war, hunger, poverty and the rest of it?"
If a person is an "orthodox Catholic," then he or she should become "hyper" about such vital Social Teachings as climate change, nuclear war, hunger, poverty, etc.
Those are Culture of Life issues
Climate change, for example, is related to world peace. That is, man's role in destroying our environment reflects his willingness to degrade and destroy life, including human life.
Consumerism and greed deplete the earth of resources...pollute the air, lakes, rivers, and oceans.
Consumerism and greed are forms of violence.
Humans who don't hesitate to trash the environment demonstrate their lack of concern for God and His Creation. Said folks belong to the Culture of Death.
Deo gratias for our "Green" Culture of Life Popes who have promoted good stewardship in regard to God's Creation.
Their teachings in that regard have advanced world peace. They have advanced the Culture of Life.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
Like Bishop Sheen said...
MT. Repent!!! Electronic devices, allowing you to browse blogs and make comments, are a symptom of consumerism and they are bad for the environment.
Dan,
http://w2.vatican.va/content/benedict-xvi/en/messages/peace/documents/hf_ben-xvi_mes_20091208_xliii-world-day-peace.html
POPE BENEDICT XVI FOR THE CELEBRATION OF THE WORLD DAY OF PEACE
1 JANUARY 2010
IF YOU WANT TO CULTIVATE PEACE, PROTECT CREATION
"If You Want to Cultivate Peace, Protect Creation. Respect for creation is of immense consequence, not least because “creation is the beginning and the foundation of all God’s works”, and its preservation has now become essential for the pacific coexistence of mankind.
"Man’s inhumanity to man has given rise to numerous threats to peace and to authentic and integral human development – wars, international and regional conflicts, acts of terrorism, and violations of human rights.
"Yet no less troubling are the threats arising from the neglect – if not downright misuse – of the earth and the natural goods that God has given us. For this reason, it is imperative that mankind renew and strengthen “that covenant between human beings and the environment, which should mirror the creative love of God, from whom we come and towards whom we are journeying”.
"Can we remain indifferent before the problems associated with such realities as climate change, desertification, the deterioration and loss of productivity in vast agricultural areas, the pollution of rivers and aquifers, the loss of biodiversity, the increase of natural catastrophes and the deforestation of equatorial and tropical regions?
"Can we disregard the growing phenomenon of “environmental refugees”, people who are forced by the degradation of their natural habitat to forsake it – and often their possessions as well – in order to face the dangers and uncertainties of forced displacement?
"Can we remain impassive in the face of actual and potential conflicts involving access to natural resources? All these are issues with a profound impact on the exercise of human rights, such as the right to life, food, health and development."
Pax.
Mark Thomas
Dan,
Pope Saint John Paul II, January 1, 1990 A.D.
PEACE WITH GOD THE CREATOR, PEACE WITH ALL OF CREATION
"In our day, there is a growing awareness that world peace is threatened not only by the arms race, regional conflicts and continued injustices among peoples and nations, but also by a lack of due respect for nature, by the plundering of natural resources and by a progressive decline in the quality of life.
"Faced with the widespread destruction of the environment, people everywhere are coming to understand that we cannot continue to use the goods of the earth as we have in the past.
"For Christians, such a world view is grounded in religious convictions drawn from Revelation.
"Many ethical values, fundamental to the development of a peaceful society, are particularly relevant to the ecological question."
Pax.
Mark Thomas
MT apparently does not know the difference between pantheism and Catholic doctrine on creation. "Progressives" are pantheists in their outlook. Hell, they even want people to stop having children in the name of saving the planet!
MT is the equivalent of a troll. The best way to treat his comments is to pass them over. Acknowledgment only feeds the beast.
Mark Thomas:
Don’t worry about it. You are in good company. Judging from the passages you quoted, Pope Saint John Paul II and Pope Benedict were trolls too, just hard copy ones.
Why does it always have to be either/or, instead of both/and!
Mallen
Anonymous Dan said..."MT. Repent!!! Electronic devices, allowing you to browse blogs and make comments, are a symptom of consumerism and they are bad for the environment."
Dan, your reply demonstrates extremism. You didn't enjoy that which I had said...which had come from Popes Saint John Paul II and Benedict XVI
Holy Mother Church has presented rational teachings in regard to our being good stewards of earth's resources.
We can benefit from technology without having to poison the air and water...without becoming greedy materialists.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
Nothing wrong with caring for the environment and loving its beauty. Our Lord obviously did. BUT, the words, documents, statements, slogans maybe?, coming from Francis Vatican, border on panentheism and say little, or nothing, in reference to Our Lord. Everything sounds like it comes from collective of ignorant, secular, college students.
Ignore it, if it makes you feel better.
Mallen,
Why indeed? I had exactly the same thought this weekend on reading this thread and almost posted along the lines of your comment. But this “why” does merit investigation. I am no expert but I think we can assume the roots in the human (well let’s be careful—certainly the Western) psyche are very deep. Perhaps the beginning of wisdom is just to become aware of our proclivity towards binary thinking before trying to tackle the question of when it is, and when it is not, appropriate to indulge it, or alternatively to resist it.
Food for Thought (and a Case for Humility?):
https://cruxnow.com/amazon-synod/2019/09/23/questioning-amazon-synod-local-says-come-live-here-for-a-year/
Anonymous 2 said..."Mark Thomas: Don’t worry about it. You are in good company. Judging from the passages you quoted, Pope Saint John Paul II and Pope Benedict were trolls too, just hard copy ones."
Lol.
Not only were the above Popes trolls, they were communists. They must have been communists as certain folks within the Church have labeled Pope Francis a "communist" for his having repeated the same teachings in question as Popes Saint John Paul II, and Benedict XVI.
:-)
Pax.
Mark Thomas
“[A]nd say little, or nothing, in reference to Our Lord”
First two substantive paragraphs of Amazon Working Document:
6. Evangelization in Latin America was a gift of Providence that calls everyone to salvation in Christ. In spite of military, political and cultural colonization, and beyond the ambition and greed of the colonizers, there were many missionaries who gave their lives to pass the Gospel on. This missionary sensibility not only inspired the formation of Christian communities, but also legislation such as the Laws of the Indies that protected the dignity of indigenous peoples against the abuse of their populations and territories. Such abuses wounded the communities and overshadowed the message of the Good News; Christ was often proclaimed in connivance with the powers that exploited the resources and oppressed the populations.
7. Today the Church, in order to exercise its prophetic role with transparency, has the historic opportunity to differentiate itself clearly from the new colonizing powers by listening to the Amazon peoples. The current socio-environmental crisis opens new opportunities to present Christ in all his liberating and humanizing power. This first chapter is structured around four key concepts closely interrelated: life, territory, time and dialogue, where the Church is incarnated with an Amazonian and missionary face.
Mark Thomas:
Ah, but you see they weren’t called “Francis.” Do you recall how some commentators were already “freaking out” (not too strong a term I think) at the choice of the name “Francis,” hoping that it was intended to invoke St. Francis Xavier not St. Francis of Assisi?:
http://southernorderspage.blogspot.com/2013/03/a-seagull-on-smoke-pipe-of-sistine.html
Correction: Evoke, not invoke.
In the very wordy Laudato Si, "Jesus" occurs 7 times, "Christ" occurs 7 times, and "Catholic" occurs 3 times.
Try on some documents of Popes JPII and Benedict.
Dan said..."Nothing wrong with caring for the environment and loving its beauty. Our Lord obviously did. BUT, the words, documents, statements, slogans maybe?, coming from Francis Vatican, border on panentheism and say little, or nothing, in reference to Our Lord."
From the dawn of his Pontificate, His Holiness Pope Francis has linked Jesus Christ to the care for Creation.
From the homily of Pope Francis' Holy Mass of Inauguration: March 19, 2013 A.D.
"Let us protect Christ in our lives, so that we can protect others, so that we can protect creation!"
"Be protectors of God’s gifts! :let us be “protectors” of creation, protectors of God’s plan inscribed in nature, protectors of one another and of the environment."
URBI ET ORBI MESSAGE OF POPE FRANCIS EASTER 2013, Easter Sunday, 31 March 2013
In June 2013, he linked Jesus to "environmental ecology."
Laudato Si referenced Jesus Christ 23 times.
COMMON DECLARATION OF POPE FRANCIS AND THE ECUMENICAL PATRIARCH BARTHOLOMEW I — 2014 A.D.
========================================================================================
Dan, additional references from Pope Francis place Jesus Christ at the center of the care for Creation.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
Dan said.."In the very wordy Laudato Si, "Jesus" occurs 7 times, "Christ" occurs 7 times, and "Catholic" occurs 3 times."
Dan, in the very wordy Laudato Si, which I just searched again, I found 23 references to Jesus.
You and I must have searched different versions of the very wordy Laudato Si.
I searched the Vatican's English translation of the very wordy Laudato Si.
=============================================================================
In the very wordy Laudato Si, I found 19 references to "Catholic."
Dan, in a Papal document, is Pope Francis required to reference this or that name/word...Ummm, I don't know...77,000 times...3 times...200,000 times?
Perhaps His Holiness should form a commission to determine an official amount of times that he should be required in each Papal document to reference this or that name/word.
Hey, we could make that retroactive. He could be required to add this or that name/word to his documents.
Example: To the very wordy Laudato Si, Pope Francis could attach a form that adds "Catholic" 3,000 times to said Encyclical
:-)
Pax.
Mark Thomas
MT, Francis will be condemned. You'll see.
Dan said..."Try on some documents of Popes JPII and Benedict."
I did. In my first post here, I repeated the teachings of Popes Saint John Paul II, and Benedict XVI.
You poked fun at said teachings.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
Nah MT. False. I meant find some documents that are of similar length and see how often those words were used.
Also you accuse me of "poking fun" at JPII and Benedict. Where?
I agree they also spoke of the environment, but they did not produce documents that seemed to WORSHIP nature.
No other pope has troubled me in the way that Francis does... I am not alone either.
Dan:
What do we mean by “panentheism”? The following interesting and informative video suggests that we need to define the term first as it can mean different things to different people:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xki03G_TO4
Question for anyone: Are there any relevant official Roman Catholic pronouncements on the different meanings of the term “panentheism” and on which, if any, are acceptable/non-heretical?
Dan said..."Also you accuse me of "poking fun" at JPII and Benedict. Where?"
I said that you poked fun at the teachings in question.
I noted originally that climate change, for example, is related to world peace. That is, man's role in destroying our environment reflects his willingness to degrade and destroy life, including human life.
Consumerism and greed deplete the earth of resources...pollute the air, lakes, rivers, and oceans. Consumerism and greed are forms of violence. Humans who don't hesitate to trash the environment demonstrate their lack of concern for God and His Creation. Said folks belong to the Culture of Death.
Dan replied: "MT. Repent!!! Electronic devices, allowing you to browse blogs and make comments, are a symptom of consumerism and they are bad for the environment."
=============================================================================
Dan, was your response serious?
Of course. Otherwise it is hypocrisy.
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