A few interesting observations about this Mass. The dancing altar crucifix disappeared for this Mass. When the Holy Father begins to incense the altar, you can see him looking first to the left for thee altar crucifix and then to the right and of course it has disappeared. So this tells me this is the MC’s decision and that he doesn’t tell the Holy Father beforehand where it is or if it is gone! A lovely touch is when the laity present the offerings to the pope, all of them or at least most kiss the hand or ring of the pope and he gladly receives this sign of respect for the high office the Vicar of Christ holds. Finally, a peculiar thing occurs that I haven’t seen except for Masses at St. Peter’s Basilica, and there it makes sense. The papal throne and adjunct chairs which are behind the altar and higher, are removed for the Liturgy of the Eucharist and return as Holy Communion is distributed. At St. Peter’s, of course, these chairs are in front of the altar and are placed there after the altar is incensed and removed for the Liturgy of the Eucharist. One final suggestion: why in the name of God and all that is holy is the papal throne placed at the highest level of the platform and the altar below it? Put the altar at the highest level and put the papal throne on the level where the altar is but opposite of the ambo. The altar should be at the highest level! Just my two cents.
As the (Latin) Church has long made clear, the Holy Mass of Pope Saint Paul VI ill serve as Her primary Mass as She moves forward. As today's holy Mass at Tor Vergata demonstrated, vernaculars, Communion received in the hand while standing...
...put simply, the Mass of Pope Saint Paul VI is holy, and uplifting spiritually, to its core.
In particular, youths at today's Mass served as wonderful examples as to the profound holiness/spirituality that flows from the Holy Mass of Pope Saint Paul VI.
Pope Benedict XVI (requiescat in pace) had made clear the profound value of the Holy Mass of Pope Saint Paul VI. Pope Benedict XVI declared:
"There is no contradiction between the two editions of the Roman Missal. In the history of the liturgy there is growth and progress, but no rupture.
"Needless to say, in order to experience full communion, the priests of the communities adhering to the former usage cannot, as a matter of principle, exclude celebrating according to the new books.
"The total exclusion of the new rite would not in fact be consistent with the recognition of its value and holiness."
=======
Today, at Tor Vergata, the unfathomable holiness that flowed from the Holy Mass of Pope Saint Paul VI was palpable and powerful.
So true MT, no contradiction between the two missals. I suspect Pope Leo shares Pope Benedict’s teaching on this and will renew Summorum Pontificum with some refinements. You’re really coming along and growing.
In light of the following, is it a good idea to institute even a "refined" version of Summorum Pontificum?
Among "traditionalists," for example, there has been considerable rejection of numerous teachings that Pope Benedict XVI (requiescat in pace) had promoted to promote his liturgical peace plan.
Said folks have insisted that Summorum Pontificum was packed with "lies" supposedly to facilitate liturgical peace between the TLM, as well as the "Novus Bogus" — a task that more than a few "traditionalists" have deemed impossible to accomplish.
Example: As promoted by Rorate Caeli, here is Peter Kwasniewski's attack against Summorum Pontififcum.
Father Davide Pagliarani, Superior General of the Society of Saint Pius X, denounced Summorum Pontificum. Father Pagliarani:
"With Summorum Pontificum...the perspective of this motu proprio, which remained flawed, was based on an error: two forms of the same rite of Mass, and above all, I would like to add, the illusion of improving something in the current crisis without discussing the causes of the crisis.
"This was the error of Pope Benedict XVI and the limitations of this motu proprio: it just could not work. It could work for a while, but sooner or later it would lead to what has happened.
"We have the experiment of Pope Benedict XVI and it cannot work: to put truth next to error; to put the two Masses next to each other, so that one can “fertilize” the other; to have “a reform of the reform through continuity”… it is a total illusion."
=======
Within the TLM Movement, Pope Leo XIV has been denounced as a supposed typical Vatican II, Novus Ordo, ecumenical movement, modernist Pope.
Would Pope Leo XIV alienate "traditionalists" to an even greater degree via Summorum Pontificum's restoration?
Regarding the outstanding music...in both the Prayer Vigil and Mass, I found the music (choir and orchestra) to be beautiful and respectful...no need for a praise band at a "youth Mass". It was very thoughtful...prayerful...dramatic...well rehearsed...AND distinctly Catholic.
Granted, I'm shocked as I'm more of a traditionalist...but this was a great example of how modern music can be done well. Will this bring back the orchestral Mass??
Also interesting was the Pope's vestments. How about that jeweled cope?? Also, today at Mass he wore a chasuble of Benedict XVI and a new Miter with his coat of arms on it. Beautiful.
I expected him to wear vestments with the Jubilee logo on them...so very much a surprise.
MT your contacts with traditional Catholics is limited thus you stereotype them. That leads to prejudice and racism. The biggest group in the Church who dislike the Mass and don’t find it fulfilling are those who reject the new Mass and go to non denominational and other Protestant sect or no where. Spend your rants on them.
MT you keep banging your drum about the SSPX, which at least has valid sacraments and Pope Francis graciously allowed any Catholic to go to confession to one of their priests and made sure that all the marriages their priests witness are valid. The Catholics you should be most concerned about aren’t those who go to SSPX or even any branch of the Eastern Orthodox Churches, since both have valid sacraments, but those Catholics who now go to schismatic Catholic sects which also do not have valid sacraments, specifically those liberal “Catholic” sects who ordain women as “deacons, priests and bishops.” I think there are way more of those kinds of Catholics than attend the SSPX and any other TLM. Misplaced concern on your part to say the least!
Mikie, thanks for your comment. I have always had mixed feelings about modern Catholic music. My tastes have certainly changed over the years. Like many younger Catholics, I use to like folk music and the variety of contemporary songs that came from the late 70’s into the 80’s. When I hear it today, it creates nostalgia for me and often warm feelings. I’ve come to disdain, though, religious words set to modern tunes of the entertainment industry, broadway, movies and popular songs. Gregorian Chants have what I call a Catholics sound, ethos and spirituality. I’m not sure what ethos modern sounds have, more secular than religious even with religious words. I also love gospel music from the variety of black Protestant traditions. I made sure that one of our three Sunday Masses at the Church of the Most Holy Trinity in Augusta had a gospel choir as we had a large black community. They were so good that even black Protestant churches in Augusta invited them to sing in their church! But with this desire for multi-culturalism in the Mass and incorporating so many elements of music from the Protestant churches and even now praise and worship (which I despise) from non-denominational churches, we diss our own cultural Roman or Western European heritage. The TLM, though, helps to keep our Roman or Latin culture alive!
This is just silly at this point. Traditionis Custodes was a great gift to the SSPX. And are we supposed to pretend that SSPX = traditionalists and speaks for all of them? Even if that was ever the case, it hasn't been so for decades.
12 comments:
Well "first class" is not a term one would apply to the former papacy!
A few interesting observations about this Mass. The dancing altar crucifix disappeared for this Mass. When the Holy Father begins to incense the altar, you can see him looking first to the left for thee altar crucifix and then to the right and of course it has disappeared. So this tells me this is the MC’s decision and that he doesn’t tell the Holy Father beforehand where it is or if it is gone! A lovely touch is when the laity present the offerings to the pope, all of them or at least most kiss the hand or ring of the pope and he gladly receives this sign of respect for the high office the Vicar of Christ holds. Finally, a peculiar thing occurs that I haven’t seen except for Masses at St. Peter’s Basilica, and there it makes sense. The papal throne and adjunct chairs which are behind the altar and higher, are removed for the Liturgy of the Eucharist and return as Holy Communion is distributed. At St. Peter’s, of course, these chairs are in front of the altar and are placed there after the altar is incensed and removed for the Liturgy of the Eucharist.
One final suggestion: why in the name of God and all that is holy is the papal throne placed at the highest level of the platform and the altar below it? Put the altar at the highest level and put the papal throne on the level where the altar is but opposite of the ambo. The altar should be at the highest level! Just my two cents.
As the (Latin) Church has long made clear, the Holy Mass of Pope Saint Paul VI ill serve as Her primary Mass as She moves forward. As today's holy Mass at Tor Vergata demonstrated, vernaculars, Communion received in the hand while standing...
...put simply, the Mass of Pope Saint Paul VI is holy, and uplifting spiritually, to its core.
In particular, youths at today's Mass served as wonderful examples as to the profound holiness/spirituality that flows from the Holy Mass of Pope Saint Paul VI.
Pope Benedict XVI (requiescat in pace) had made clear the profound value of the Holy Mass of Pope Saint Paul VI. Pope Benedict XVI declared:
"There is no contradiction between the two editions of the Roman Missal. In the history of the liturgy there is growth and progress, but no rupture.
"Needless to say, in order to experience full communion, the priests of the communities adhering to the former usage cannot, as a matter of principle, exclude celebrating according to the new books.
"The total exclusion of the new rite would not in fact be consistent with the recognition of its value and holiness."
=======
Today, at Tor Vergata, the unfathomable holiness that flowed from the Holy Mass of Pope Saint Paul VI was palpable and powerful.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
So true MT, no contradiction between the two missals. I suspect Pope Leo shares Pope Benedict’s teaching on this and will renew Summorum Pontificum with some refinements. You’re really coming along and growing.
The New Usage is a dud, an abject failure
In light of the following, is it a good idea to institute even a "refined" version of Summorum Pontificum?
Among "traditionalists," for example, there has been considerable rejection of numerous teachings that Pope Benedict XVI (requiescat in pace) had promoted to promote his liturgical peace plan.
Said folks have insisted that Summorum Pontificum was packed with "lies" supposedly to facilitate liturgical peace between the TLM, as well as the "Novus Bogus" — a task that more than a few "traditionalists" have deemed impossible to accomplish.
Example: As promoted by Rorate Caeli, here is Peter Kwasniewski's attack against Summorum Pontififcum.
https://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2021/07/beyond-summorum-pontificum-work-of.html
=======
Father Davide Pagliarani, Superior General of the Society of Saint Pius X, denounced Summorum Pontificum. Father Pagliarani:
"With Summorum Pontificum...the perspective of this motu proprio, which remained flawed, was based on an error: two forms of the same rite of Mass, and above all, I would like to add, the illusion of improving something in the current crisis without discussing the causes of the crisis.
"This was the error of Pope Benedict XVI and the limitations of this motu proprio: it just could not work. It could work for a while, but sooner or later it would lead to what has happened.
"We have the experiment of Pope Benedict XVI and it cannot work: to put truth next to error; to put the two Masses next to each other, so that one can “fertilize” the other; to have “a reform of the reform through continuity”… it is a total illusion."
=======
Within the TLM Movement, Pope Leo XIV has been denounced as a supposed typical Vatican II, Novus Ordo, ecumenical movement, modernist Pope.
Would Pope Leo XIV alienate "traditionalists" to an even greater degree via Summorum Pontificum's restoration?
Pax.
Mark Thomas
Father McDonald said..."So true MT, no contradiction between the two missals."
Father, I wish that folks who have promoted the following would embrace your above comment:
Said folks have claimed that the post-Vatican II liturgical reform/Novus Ordo Mass is not in line with Vatican II's liturgical declarations.
Therefore, the Novus Ordo, concocted by the Consilium, has broken with the TLM/Roman liturgical tradition.
In turn, Pope Benedict XVI's (requiescat in pace) following teaching is false:
"There is no contradiction between the two editions of the Roman Missal. In the history of the liturgy there is growth and progress, but no rupture.
=======
I do not recall having encountered in person, or, on line, a "traditionalist" who accepted Pope Benedict XVI's teaching in question.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
Regarding the outstanding music...in both the Prayer Vigil and Mass, I found the music (choir and orchestra) to be beautiful and respectful...no need for a praise band at a "youth Mass". It was very thoughtful...prayerful...dramatic...well rehearsed...AND distinctly Catholic.
Granted, I'm shocked as I'm more of a traditionalist...but this was a great example of how modern music can be done well. Will this bring back the orchestral Mass??
Also interesting was the Pope's vestments. How about that jeweled cope?? Also, today at Mass he wore a chasuble of Benedict XVI and a new Miter with his coat of arms on it. Beautiful.
I expected him to wear vestments with the Jubilee logo on them...so very much a surprise.
MT your contacts with traditional Catholics is limited thus you stereotype them. That leads to prejudice and racism. The biggest group in the Church who dislike the Mass and don’t find it fulfilling are those who reject the new Mass and go to non denominational and other Protestant sect or no where. Spend your rants on them.
MT you keep banging your drum about the SSPX, which at least has valid sacraments and Pope Francis graciously allowed any Catholic to go to confession to one of their priests and made sure that all the marriages their priests witness are valid. The Catholics you should be most concerned about aren’t those who go to SSPX or even any branch of the Eastern Orthodox Churches, since both have valid sacraments, but those Catholics who now go to schismatic Catholic sects which also do not have valid sacraments, specifically those liberal “Catholic” sects who ordain women as “deacons, priests and bishops.” I think there are way more of those kinds of Catholics than attend the SSPX and any other TLM. Misplaced concern on your part to say the least!
Mikie, thanks for your comment. I have always had mixed feelings about modern Catholic music. My tastes have certainly changed over the years. Like many younger Catholics, I use to like folk music and the variety of contemporary songs that came from the late 70’s into the 80’s. When I hear it today, it creates nostalgia for me and often warm feelings. I’ve come to disdain, though, religious words set to modern tunes of the entertainment industry, broadway, movies and popular songs. Gregorian Chants have what I call a Catholics sound, ethos and spirituality. I’m not sure what ethos modern sounds have, more secular than religious even with religious words. I also love gospel music from the variety of black Protestant traditions. I made sure that one of our three Sunday Masses at the Church of the Most Holy Trinity in Augusta had a gospel choir as we had a large black community. They were so good that even black Protestant churches in Augusta invited them to sing in their church!
But with this desire for multi-culturalism in the Mass and incorporating so many elements of music from the Protestant churches and even now praise and worship (which I despise) from non-denominational churches, we diss our own cultural Roman or Western European heritage. The TLM, though, helps to keep our Roman or Latin culture alive!
This is just silly at this point. Traditionis Custodes was a great gift to the SSPX. And are we supposed to pretend that SSPX = traditionalists and speaks for all of them? Even if that was ever the case, it hasn't been so for decades.
Truly not sending their best.
Nick
Post a Comment