Update, new pastor of the parish involved writes a letter to his parishioners defending himself. You can read it HERE FROM THE ST. BEDE WEBSITE IN WILLIAMSBURG, VA
A disclaimer, St. Anne Church in Richmond Hill, my parish, rented its chapel to St. Elizabeth Episcopal Church to use in the 1980's. Their pastor at the time was a priestess. As you can imagine it caused some confusion for visitors who wandered in to the late Sunday afternoon service.
Our Diocese also allowed the Episcopal Diocese of Georgia to use our Cathedral for the ordination of an male bishop in the 1990's.
Is this kosher or not? Is the path to hell paved with good intentions?
A disclaimer, St. Anne Church in Richmond Hill, my parish, rented its chapel to St. Elizabeth Episcopal Church to use in the 1980's. Their pastor at the time was a priestess. As you can imagine it caused some confusion for visitors who wandered in to the late Sunday afternoon service.
Our Diocese also allowed the Episcopal Diocese of Georgia to use our Cathedral for the ordination of an male bishop in the 1990's.
Is this kosher or not? Is the path to hell paved with good intentions?
14 comments:
WRONG!
WRONG!
WRONG!
All they need to add is put the word “REAL” before “Catholic” in a the location description.
An Episcopalian diocese ordaining a new bishop is not "ecumenism run amuck."
The use of a Catholic church for the ordination of a priest or bishop by the Episcopalian church is, also, not "ecumenism run amuck."
The Ecumenical Directory (aka DIRECTORY FOR THE APPLICATION OF
PRINCIPLES AND NORMS ON ECUMENISM) (1993) states, "137. Catholic churches are consecrated or blessed buildings which have an important theological and liturgical significance for the Catholic community. They are therefore generally reserved for Catholic worship. However, if priests, ministers or communities not in full communion with the Catholic Church do not have a place or the liturgical objects necessary for celebrating worthily their religious ceremonies, the diocesan Bishop may allow them the use of a church or a Catholic building and also lend them what may be necessary for their services. Under similar circumstances, permission may be given to them for interment or for the celebration of services at Catholic cemeteries."
When I was pastor at St. Boniface in Effingham County, we, too, allowed the local Episcopalian congregation to use our church building while they were building their down the road. Nothing amuck there.
The use of St. Bede Church for this ordination was approved by the Bishop of Richmond, by the former pastor of the parish who was originally approached, and the very newly appointed pastor, Msgr. Joe Lehman. I have known Joe for many years through our work together in CADEIO - the Catholic Association of Diocesan Ecumenical and Interreligious Officers. He and I are the Ecumenical and Interreligious Officers for our respective dioceses, Richmond, Virginia, and Savannah. His letter regarding the ordination can be read here: https://www.bedeva.org/media/1/Letter%20-%20Episcopal%20Ordination.pdf
So, yes, it is kosher.
A lot of Episcopal dioceses ironically don't even have a designated cathedral, including the Savannah-based Episcopal Diocese of Georgia. Perhaps they should explain that? I wonder what the current policy is in the Savannah Diocese? I noticed that the ordination of the next bishop of the (Episcopal) Diocese of Georgia is happening at the Johnny Mercier theatre (I think part of the large convention center on Hutchinson Island). There is no chance Atlanta' Catholic cathedral would be used for an Episcopal ordination as our cathedral only seats 700 or so at best---the Episcopal one across the street is much larger. In 1995, yes, Savannah's cathedral was used for the ordination of Henry Louttit Jr, who served as the bishop of Savannah-s Episcopal diocese from 1995-2010.
I can't imagine an Orthodox parish doing this unless there's physical persecution going on.
So will there be a non-Catholic 'mass' with a communion service of bread and wine while the REAL PRESENCE is there? Naturally, I no longer expect anyone among the shepherds to care.....
The bishop should be removed as well as the pastor.
Bee here:
The announcement says, "God willing and the people consenting..." So has anyone taken a vote of the Roman Catholic people of the parish of St. Bede to determine if they have consented? Or does this mean the Episcopal people of, what, the Episcopal Diocese of Southern Virginia, have been polled? Or is this just a nice turn of a phrase...(well of course, it's the last. I guarantee it's happening no matter who does not consent.)
Continuing to quote the announcement...
"The Reverend Susan Bunton Hanyes will be ordained and consecrated as a Bishop in the one, holy, catholic, apostolic Church..."
I thought the Roman Catholic Church laid claim to being the "one, holy, catholic, apostolic Church," as we say in the Creed.
So isn't this ordination a source of confusion, namely that an Episcopal woman priestess will be "consecrated" inside a Roman Catholic Church by an Episcopal Bishop for the Episcopal Church, claiming it is (or maybe it is a part of) the one, holy, catholic, apostolic Church?
I wonder when the poor people of St. Bede will have to bow down and worship the Pachamama statue (in the name of sacred ECUMENISM, of course), carried into the church on the shoulders of Bishops...
God bless.
Bee
Savannah tended to be middle- to low-church Episcopalian, so no cathedral was ever named. They did have a pro-cathedral (I think that's what they called it) for a while when a very high church rector prevailed upon a former bishop to have one. With the arrival of that bishop's successor, the pro-cathedral was no more.
The Johnny Mercer theater is part of the Savannah Civic Center in downtown Savannah, not on Hutchinson Island. The Hutchinson Island venue was used for the consecration for the now-retired 10th Bishop of Georgia, Scott Benhase.
It makes no sense that the Church founded by Christ should allow such a ceremony to take place in a Catholic Church where the true sacraments of the new covenant are celebrated. Anglican orders are invalid in every way and the desire to “consecrate” a woman as an Episcopalian bishop in a Catholic Church is simply OUTRAGEOUS. Our forefathers, clerical and lay, would not recognize the church they fought so hard to establish in this country.
I am sick and tired of this “hospitality” nonsense where Catholic doctrine is muted so that invalid Protestant rites can take place where true worship of God is offered according to His will. In this priest’s opinion this upcoming action at St. Bede the Venerable is ecumenism run amuck. Give it another 15 or 20 years and there will be very little ecumenism at all simply because these “ecclesial communities,” with their rainbow flags proudly flying on their churches, will have perished because their members will have all disappeared.
The Blessed Sacrament must be removed by request of the bishop.
What’s all the bother about? What’s the difference? We can play high church and they can play low church as that’s been the reality since Vatican II. Who are we kidding any more.
What barriers would there be to directing the Episcopal parish to a local black Protestant church who would suffer no scandal and is, pebaps in need of the money?
Well, I hope the ceremony at least "looks" Catholic. Virginia Anglicanism has traditionally been "Low Church"---like God forbid a bishop wear a miter and a cope or chasuble. I have lived in the "Commonwealth" before (as their government is called, not a state), and for almost 25 years the bishop of the state's largest diocese (the Diocese of Virginia), Peter Lee, never wore a miter and almost always wore just a rochet and chimere for confirmation and the Eucharist. Never, ever saw him wear a miter. In the past, many Anglican parishes in Virginia emphasized "Morning Prayer and Sermon" and Communion might only be served the first Sunday of the month.
Yes, I know most if not all of the bloggers here aren't keen about women on the altar. It is not something I would have backed when the Episcopal Church started to do so for priests in 1976. But after 44 years, it ain't going away---well, until their denomination dies out (it has lost about half its total members since the 1960s).
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