PATRONIZING AND SNARKY RESPONSE BY VATICAN PRESS OFFICE AND THEY SNICKER AND TRY TO PUT LIPSTICK ON THE PIG OF BREAKING THE FIRST COMMANDMENT AT THE VATICAN
This is a typical liberal response to a religious outrage. I think the male reporter next to the female asking the question is Sandro Magister:
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8 comments:
Dan
said...
The article I read downplays the figure and describes it as a feminine form representing fertility. Maybe as they are busy reaching out to the "peripheries" of the Amazonian tribes and peoples, they ought to ask what the figure represents to THEM. Otherwise they might be accused of being blind to the enriching ancestral wisdom of these edenic like peoples.
There's also talk of 'inculturating' the liturgy by incorporating local rituals and translating the Mass into no fewer than 300 tribal languages.
It would be interesting to know a) how many of these languages exist in written form and b) how many of them are capable of expressing abstract theological concepts.
Without these preconditions translation is scarcely feasible.
Now I know that some may point out that there are some people reporting that the indigenous woman presented the idol to Francis with the words "Our lady of the Amazon" or some such phrase.
However, as everyone knows, it would be a supreme example of paternalistic colonialism with a hit of patriarchal clericalism to assume a Western interpretation of what this woman meant by "OUR" lady.
I believe it would be most affirming and inclusive to see the idol as Pachamama - Mother Earth goddess. (maybe G should be capitalized now)
This fits is nicely with those new environmental sins. After all we have to be sinning against some God or goddess, don't we?
Dan, the Church has used pagan images and Christianized these where possible. In terms of fertility, just think of the Asperges as related to baptism and hoe God gives birth to adopted sons and daughters. The aspergellium is a pagan phalic symbol if there ever was one adapted by the Church with powerful Christian symbolism now. Think of the Easter candle being plunged into the Easter water three time at the Vigil. Just what do you think that image is?
Let’s talk about wreathes, firs with lights and the pagan images of spring now associated with Easter, eggs, bunnies and colored chicks.
John, you forget about dynamic equivalence. The only drawback to that, that I can see, is that when the priest tells the congregation of certain tribes that he is acting in persona christi and then reads the gospel admonition to eat his flesh and drink his blood the priest shortage in the Amazon will be exacerbated.
Fr. Allan J. McDonald said..."Dan, the Church has used pagan images and Christianized these where possible."
Father, are you going to enshrine a replica of "Our Lady of the Amazon," who we now learn is also referred to as "the song of Nunkuli" (definition: nunkuli ~ s.(mit) ~ one of the main deities of the Lowland Kichwas) in your parish church so that the people can venerate Her naked image and pray the Rosary to Her under that title?
Or are we all going to remain "Eurocentric" and just have fully clothed statues of OLG or OL of Lourdes or something similar?
And if we can have naked images of the Blessed Virgin, who is the highest created saint, how about some naked images of other saints? Any males we should enshrine in our churches like that?
I collect Asian art. In that collection there depictions of various saints, almost all have a distinctly Asian look physically as well as dress. But all are modestly dressed because the message of respect for the Human person was delivered concurrently with the concepts of the Devine Persons. I also have copies of art showing the exposed breast of Our Blessed Mother as she prepares to nurse the Fruit of her womb. None of these are offered as a totem or homage to my sexual satisfaction or fecund goals.
Where the mind of man sought the sublime in vain via ignorant pagan means we can find legitimate conversion of symbols. Where the mind on man was endeavoring to gain advantage in his yearning for carnal satisfaction through the harnessing of supernatural aid we must reject it for what it is: the lure of Satan.
8 comments:
The article I read downplays the figure and describes it as a feminine form representing fertility. Maybe as they are busy reaching out to the "peripheries" of the Amazonian tribes and peoples, they ought to ask what the figure represents to THEM. Otherwise they might be accused of being blind to the enriching ancestral wisdom of these edenic like peoples.
There's also talk of 'inculturating' the liturgy by incorporating local rituals and translating the Mass into no fewer than 300 tribal languages.
It would be interesting to know a) how many of these languages exist in written form and b) how many of them are capable of expressing abstract theological concepts.
Without these preconditions translation is scarcely feasible.
Now I know that some may point out that there are some people reporting that the indigenous woman presented the idol to Francis with the words "Our lady of the Amazon" or some such phrase.
However, as everyone knows, it would be a supreme example of paternalistic colonialism with a hit of patriarchal clericalism to assume a Western interpretation of what this woman meant by "OUR" lady.
I believe it would be most affirming and inclusive to see the idol as Pachamama - Mother Earth goddess. (maybe G should be capitalized now)
This fits is nicely with those new environmental sins. After all we have to be sinning against some God or goddess, don't we?
Dan, the Church has used pagan images and Christianized these where possible. In terms of fertility, just think of the Asperges as related to baptism and hoe God gives birth to adopted sons and daughters. The aspergellium is a pagan phalic symbol if there ever was one adapted by the Church with powerful Christian symbolism now. Think of the Easter candle being plunged into the Easter water three time at the Vigil. Just what do you think that image is?
Let’s talk about wreathes, firs with lights and the pagan images of spring now associated with Easter, eggs, bunnies and colored chicks.
Yes but to Christiantize these beloved pagan gods, goddesses, and symbols, is now taboo. It might even be proselytizing.
John, you forget about dynamic equivalence. The only drawback to that, that I can see, is that when the priest tells the congregation of certain tribes that he is acting in persona christi and then reads the gospel admonition to eat his flesh and drink his blood the priest shortage in the Amazon will be exacerbated.
Fr. Allan J. McDonald said..."Dan, the Church has used pagan images and Christianized these where possible."
Father, are you going to enshrine a replica of "Our Lady of the Amazon," who we now learn is also referred to as "the song of Nunkuli" (definition: nunkuli ~ s.(mit) ~ one of the main deities of the Lowland Kichwas) in your parish church so that the people can venerate Her naked image and pray the Rosary to Her under that title?
Or are we all going to remain "Eurocentric" and just have fully clothed statues of OLG or OL of Lourdes or something similar?
And if we can have naked images of the Blessed Virgin, who is the highest created saint, how about some naked images of other saints? Any males we should enshrine in our churches like that?
I collect Asian art. In that collection there depictions of various saints, almost all have a distinctly Asian look physically as well as dress. But all are modestly dressed because the message of respect for the Human person was delivered concurrently with the concepts of the Devine Persons. I also have copies of art showing the exposed breast of Our Blessed Mother as she prepares to nurse the Fruit of her womb. None of these are offered as a totem or homage to my sexual satisfaction or fecund goals.
Where the mind of man sought the sublime in vain via ignorant pagan means we can find legitimate conversion of symbols. Where the mind on man was endeavoring to gain advantage in his yearning for carnal satisfaction through the harnessing of supernatural aid we must reject it for what it is: the lure of Satan.
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