UPDATE:
My comment: this is an act of active aggression. Surely these will Be recovered and in an act of passive aggression, a Vatican Amazon Prelate will display the pagan goddesses in St. Peter's as a sign of reparation to her and her people.
The men behind the action have issued a statement, saying:
From Fr. Z:“This was done for only one reason: Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, his Blessed Mother, and everybody who follows Christ, are being attacked by members of our own Church. We do not accept this! We do not longer stay silent! We start to act NOW!Because we love humanity, we cannot accept that people of a certain region should not get baptized and therefore are being denied entrance into heaven. It is our duty to follow the words of God, like our holy Mother did. There is not second way of salvation.Christus vincit, Christus regnat, Christus imperat!”
VIDEO: Pachamama demon idols take a dive into the Tiber.
This video pretty clearly shows that someone entered the church in the Via della Conciliazione, Santa Maria in Traspontina, took some of the seemingly ubiquitous pagan demon Pachamama idols out of their displays, and then left the church, went to the nearby Angel Bridge over the Tiber, and dropped them off the bridge and into the river (in which they will probably dissolve rapidly).
There must have been at least two people taking the videos on mobile phones, which were edited together.
6,670 views so far.
My first reaction to this is…
If you are going record yourself boosting Pachamama demon idols that don’t belong to you, the least you could do is …
… hold your phone horizontally when making the videos?
38 comments:
God bless these two young guys! Thank God for "right wing bloggers" who give us this information. There are still some men left in the world.
Mark Thomas will be condemning these young men because they are taking action against the rot in the Church flourishing under PF
God bless whoever did that. But they should have smashed them before throwing them.Because someone will find them and Francis will put them on his altar.
A pity they couldn't chuck PF into the Tiber while they were at it ...
From Rome Reports:
"FR. ROBERTO CARRASCO ROJAS
Synod Father and missionary (Peru)
He says, out of all the items present at this exhibition, one item in particular is very symbolic of the Amazon for the people.
This figure is the Virgin Mary of the Amazon, Our Lady of the Amazon. It's a devotion that started in the indigenous communities. They carved in wood an image of a Blessed Mother, who is pregnant. She is the Virgin Mary, and we have called her Our Lady of the Amazon.
He assures that to the indigenous people, this image does not only remind them of the Blessed Mother, but also of God."
Pax.
Mark Thomas
Mark that apologetic has been debunked by Vatican News. It is a pagan fertility icon representing Mother Earth pure and simple. Nice outdated try though!
Mark Thomas said...From Rome Reports. "FR. ROBERTO CARRASCO ROJAS
Synod Father and missionary (Peru). He says, out of all the items present at this exhibition, one item in particular is very symbolic of the Amazon for the people.
This figure is the Virgin Mary of the Amazon, Our Lady of the Amazon. It's a devotion that started in the indigenous communities. They carved in wood an image of a Blessed Mother, who is pregnant. She is the Virgin Mary, and we have called her Our Lady of the Amazon.
He assures that to the indigenous people, this image does not only remind them of the Blessed Mother, but also of God."
Pax.
Mark Thomas"
Numerous laity from the Amazon are posting things online and stating in no uncertain terms that the so-called Pachamama statues are nothing more than pagan idols. I would venture a guess that the Amazonian people know what they're talking about.
Young Dutch bishop weighs in on synod:
Concerning the #Amazonsynod Bishop Mutsaerts speaks of Pandora's box: "Even Luther and Calvijn would be shocked by this nonsense. Because that's what it is. And the pope stands idly by."
Oh my, oh my, the horror of hurt feelings of the very, very few amazonian peoples for whom this figure DOESN'T represent the pagan goddess Pachamama. We should worry about their hurt feelings and totally disregard the absolute horror that regular Catholics and especially the Catholics of the Amazon, feel when looking at what the Vatican is doing.
Bee here:
I saw somewhere else on the Internet, "The Pachamama sleep with the fishes."
:-)
God bless.
Bee
Bee,
Comedy Gold.
Its vandalism :(
It WAS idolatry :(
John Nolan said..."A pity they couldn't chuck PF into the Tiber while they were at it ..."
Now, John, you know that's not right. We can only throw former popes into the Tiber, so we just have to wait for the next cadaver synod.
I care far more about the ridding of a church of pagan idols than I do a potential misdemeanor crime of theft or a possible error in the use of the English language (often pointed out in comments on this blog). The substantive matter of being true to the Faith should be central here.
I have a pastor who condones the alleged illegal entry by a group called Plowshares into a U.S. Naval base here in southeast Georgia where they are alleged to have damaged government property (nuclear weapons) by pouring blood on them as an act of protest. I believe they are on trial this week in U. S. District Court for these acts which they would justify by saying they are upholding the Pope's teaching on the evils of nuclear weapons.
It's interesting to see what aspect of these acts we tend to emphasize, depending on our viewpoints. I see the necessary purging of a church of idols--others, more left-leaning, want to emphasize the petty theft and criminal damage to property crimes (there was no illegal entry). In the case of the Plowshares folks, I too wish we had a world free of nuclear weapons but when others have them, as a matter of survival in a dangerous world, they are a necessary evil. They may pay a high price for their alleged criminal acts committed in the name of an idealistic view of what the world should be.
Deuteronomy 12 . .
The choice to direct nuclear weapons against civilian populations, as is stated US Nuclear weapon policy, is immoral.
Inasmuch as it is impossible to avoid killing non-combatants with the use of standard nuclear weapons - tactical nuclear weapons MAY avoid this risk, but it is unlikely - then using them is immoral.
Protests against immoral activities are morally defensible, even if they may be deemed illegal. Marching across the Edmund Pettus Bridge in Selma, Alabama, by a group protesting the evil of racism and legal segregation, was a morally defensible, even a morally righteous act.
The "Others do it, so we must do it" argument is morally corrupt. An immoral means (targeting non-combatant populations)is never justified by a moral end (self-protection).
So the illegal destruction of pagan idols is morally defensible, even a morally righteous act . .
I don't have a solution to the moral problem of nuclear weapons. I have stated that I would like a nuclear weapon free world. I pray for that. Committing federal felonies and risking lengthy prison time all for a symbolic statement against nuclear weapons doesn't (to me) seem a prudent way to do something about nuclear weapons.
Very little significant change happens without significant risk. I'm sure the Pettus bridge Marchers were aware of the chance they were taking, that it might result in prison time and/or beatings, yet they persisted.
John Nolan,
How about a two-fer?
Chuck PF and his cheer-leading sycophant, MT, into the Tiber?
I'm surprised that any protester could get close enough to a nuclear weapon to actually damage it. Security would surely not be so lax.
Those who argue that nuclear deterrence is immoral ignore the fact that deterrence works even if there is no intention of using nuclear weapons even in self-defence. It's the adversary's perception that counts, and he cannot rule out the possibility that they may be used. Indeed, he might argue that there is no point in having a nuclear arsenal without having the intent to use it.
"So the illegal destruction of pagan idols is morally defensible, even a morally righteous act . ."
It may be, or it may not be.
Was it an idol? Some say yes, and they are certain, some say no, and they are certain.
The destruction of idols depends on a person's perception and understanding. Or it may depend on a lack of understanding. ISIS (or ISIL) destroyed multiple Sunni and Shiite mosques and shrines, claiming they were destroying idols. Were they?
A couple of observations on all of this. I think the vandals, and that is what they are, could be morally justified if they are willing to take the penalty for their perceived righteous act. I say the same thing about MLK and those who enter military bases for civil disobedience. They must be willing to suffer the consequences of their actions. MLK and other civil rights leaders were willing to do so and their acts were very public.
The same with those who protest nuclear facilities doing illegal damage to them. They should not then cry crocodile tears when arrested and if convicted do prison time. They should embrace the consequence of their "heroic" act.
That's my problem with the young man and his accomplice. They should have made known who they are so they could receive the appropriate justice and thus make their act even more meaningful.
Silly vandals in the bible destroying idols, and how horrible was that guy who caused that ruckus in the TEMPLE.
I really think what is starting to happen is a war between the laity that has had ENOUGH, and the 'enlighted' clerics that are forcing an agenda. This is CLERICALISM in my opinion.
I think that the men who removed the pagan idols from the Church handled the problem extremely well. They filmed the people who were inside the Church praying at the time. This makes it obvious that said people were not involved in the act. Otherwise those people would have been prime suspects in the case.
The men cleaned the idols out of the Church, and made it clear who was not involved. Well done!
A bible-Believing Christian walks into St Ann Church, Richmond Hill, picks up the idols (statues) they see displayed around the church, drives down Hiway 144, turns left onto Yacht Basin Street, turns left onto Little Lulu Lane, drives into Ogeechee Outfitters parking lot, and tosses said idols into the Ogeechee River at the Ford Plantation marina.
Well Done......?
When I was in Augusta, First Baptist Church had a pastor who was bringing some liturgical elements into their worship, like Ash Wednesday, liturgical calendar, CS Lewis seminars. For many members it smacked of Catholicism. He was fired a sort of symbolic throwing him into the River Tiber.
I would suspect if any pastor at any fundamentalist Christian Church placed a statue of Mary in his church, Mary would be gone in a heartbeat and thrown perhaps up his a--!
I think most fundamentalists would applaud the removal of Catholic images from their churches. Most would not come into a Catholic Church and do the same.
I don't think the guys in Rome would have entered a pagan temple with these images, even if the temple was in Rome, and thrown them into the Tiber.
Idols? Perception? If it's a statue any other humanoid or animal figure (real or mythical) or of a false deity and not a statue of Jesus, Mary or the Saints or a Blessed, etc. and it's in the Sacred space of a Catholic Church then it's easy to perceive that statue as being a pagan idol. It's not that hard.
I don't care if it's a statue of Uncle Sam, Johnny Appleseed, a goat, Henry Ford, Marilyn Monroe or the Easter Bunny, these things can be interpreted as false idols and don't have any place in the Sacred space of a Catholic Church.
I don't care if it's a statue of Uncle Sam, Johnny Appleseed, a goat, Henry Ford, Marilyn Monroe or the Easter Bunny, these things can be interpreted as false idols and don't have any place in the Sacred space of a Catholic Church.
Anonymous at 3:30,
Your analogy does not work. The fundamentalist is entering a Catholic Church to which he does not belong to remove Church property, whereas what happened in Rome involved a Catholic entering a Catholic Church and removing something offensive to the Catholic Faith.
"Mark that apologetic has been debunked by Vatican News. It is a pagan fertility icon representing Mother Earth pure and simple. Nice outdated try though!"
Nobody has debunked the event organizer, and Synod missionary from Peru, Father Roberto Carrasco Rojas. He declared that the icon represents the Blessed Virgin Mary.
During Synod press conferences, Vatican spokesmen have been asked about the icon.
22
Each reply featured the following:
1. The spokesmen offered their opinions — not official responses — about the Vatican Gardens Event.
2. Each spokesman has been adamant that the icon is not pagan.
Therefore, should we wish to pretend that the Vatican spokesmen had offered definitive responses about the event:
-- The icon is not pagan, according to the spokesmen.
Example:
Paolo Ruffini, Prefect for the Dicastery for Communication, insisted that the icon is not pagan.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
"Mark that apologetic has been debunked by Vatican News. It is a pagan fertility icon representing Mother Earth pure and simple. Nice outdated try though!"
Nobody has debunked the event organizer, and Synod missionary from Peru, Father Roberto Carrasco Rojas. He declared that the icon represents the Blessed Virgin Mary.
During Synod press conferences, Vatican spokesmen have been asked about the icon.
1. The spokesmen said that they had offered their opinions about the Vatican Gardens Event.
2. Each spokesman insisted that the icon is not pagan.
Therefore, should we wish to pretend that the Vatican spokesmen had offered definitive responses about the event:
-- The icon is not pagan, according to the spokesmen.
Example:
Paolo Ruffini, Prefect for the Dicastery for Communication, insisted that the icon is not pagan.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
Mark Thomas
Why should anyone give credulity to 'Vatican spokesmen'?
Does he who hears a Vatican spokesman hear Jesus Christ? Perhaps by osmosis from that oracle of God, Pope Francis?
Is there no limit to your heresy?
Mark Thomas said..."Nobody has debunked the event organizer, and Synod missionary from Peru, Father Roberto Carrasco Rojas. He declared that the icon represents the Blessed Virgin Mary."
That priest is not the originator of the idol. The priest who originally is involved with it has publicly stated that the idol represents "life," and he stated that it was purchased from a shop in Manaus, Brazil.
It is not a statue of the Blessed Virgin.
DJR, on October 21, the Catholic Herald noted:
-- The woman at the Vatican Gardens event presented the statue to Pope Francis as Our Lady of the Amazon.
-- Father Roberto Carrasco Rojas, OMI, Synod participant, and Vatican Gardens event organizer, stated:
“This figure is the Virgin Mary of the Amazon. It’s a devotion that started in the indigenous communities… They carved in wood an image of a blessed mother, who is pregnant.”
===========================================================================================
REPAM, Vatican Gardens event organizer, video from 2018 A.D. identified the icon as that of the Blessed Virgin Mary.
Regardless as to what this or that person has said about the icon, the folks involved with the Vatican Gardens event identified the icon as having represented the Blessed Virgin Mary.
Should Rome say otherwise, then I would accept the Apostolic See's statement in question.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
MT,
If the Apostolic See told you the Sacred Host was pepperoni you would probably accept that. As I said, your road show is getting tiresome. We understand your are a papal sycophant, provided the Pope is a big-time lefty. I do not recall you slobbering over Pope Benedict this way.
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