"Fifty years have passed and we celebrate a golden jubilee! We can give thanks to the Lord for so many things. Above all we can be grateful to Paul VI for all he gave to the Church while suffering for her. In his words and actions the post-Conciliar liturgical reform, which he carried out in faithful obedience to Sacrosanctum Concilium, did not simply aim at a revision of the shape of the liturgy, rather it aimed at the renewal of the Church, the mystery at the centre of his programmatic encyclical Ecclesiam suam.
Fr. Corrado Maggioni, S.M.M. Under-Secretary of the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments"
Here is what this propagandist should have said:
1) The OF has been an unmitigated disaster, the pews are fairly empty compared to the times prior to the reforms and most Catholics no longer believe in the Real Presence because of the way we celebrate this Mass (receiving Holy Communion standing and in the paw)
2) Many of the priests who celebrate the OF are disobedient making things up as they go along, further destabilizing the OF and making it all about them and displaying their contempt for the Church the Faithful (clericalism on steroids)
3) What Paul VI did was tyrannical and without precedent in Church history (ultra montanism gone wild)
4) I am detached from reality, there has been no Springtime, but since I am a toady and a company man I am obligated to engage in "happy talk" (not unlike religious who wax eloquently about the marvelous reforms in religious life as they are shuttering their convents)
I could go on and cite even more about this manifest failure, but you get the drift. I also would not count on the younger priests obeying any directive to stop celebrating the EF. After all the geriatrics in the clergy have set a fine precedent for ignoring Church law and norms. Goose meet gander.
Upon the rivers of Babylon, there we sat and wept: when we remembered Sion: On the willows in the midst thereof we hung up our instruments. For there they that led us into captivity required of us the words of songs. And they that carried us away, said: Sing ye to us a hymn of the songs of Sion. How shall we sing the song of the Lord in a strange land?
If I forget thee, O Jerusalem, let my right hand be forgotten.
"I also would not count on the younger priests obeying any directive to stop celebrating the EF."
Such showing contempt for the authority of bishops by younger clergy is a disaster, a further destabilization of Church order, adolescent tyranny, ignoring Church law, and clericalism on steroids.
Cry me a river - what goes around comes around - thanks for teaching us how to be disobedient! Or as Pope Benedict used to say, whatever was once sacred remains sacred so creepy old lefties have NO authority to ban the EF
The authority of bishops? LOL. You mean like McCarrick and company? Ya, they have a lot of moral authority.
What your post tells me is that you are terrified your little failed OF world is in serious danger of evaporating.
Amazing how so many in the Church today, even in the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments, are living in denial, in a dream world of ideological fantasy.
"Thus the reform that is about to take place everywhere is the response to an authoritative mandate of the Church. It is an act of obedience, a matter of the Church’s being consistent."
Does an ecumenical Council or even the pope have the authority to do this, to impose a liturgy fabricated by ivory tower pseudo-experts, who feared the voice of God speaking in Silence, on the whole Church. Pope Benedict questioned that, as he questioned the suppression of a liturgy that had come down to us solidly through tradition, that is to say, under the guidance through the ages of the Holy Spirit Himself?
Many bishops, cardinals and 'pope' are working for the other side. Rebellion is the only hope to put a stop to the masonic agenda that is being passed off as the faith.
In my opinion. I would never have thought I would ever even be considering such - then along came Francis.
As he has returned to the spotlight during the past week, I must say that Fr. Corrado Maggioni's, (S.M.M.) positive assessment of the Ordinary Form echoes Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI's positive assessment of the OF.
-- In 1998 A.D., then-Cardinal Ratzinger said of Pope Saint Paul VI's Missal:
"There is no doubt that this new missal in many respects brought with it a real improvement and enrichment;"
-- As Pope, Benedict XVI offered the OF exclusively in public.
-- In 2007 A.D., Pope Benedict XVI praised the Novus Ordo as having been "welcomed by the Bishops and by the priests and faithful."
-- 2007 A.D., Pope Benedict XVI insisted that the OF and EF are "two uses of the one Roman Rite." The OF and EF are in perfect harmony with each other, according to then-Pope Benedict XVI.
-- 2007 A.D., Pope Benedict via his letter to bishops declared: "It is not appropriate to speak of these two versions of the Roman Missal as if they were “two Rites”. Rather, it is a matter of a twofold use of one and the same rite.:
-- 2007 A.D., Pope Benedict XVI insisted that the Novus Ordo can "enrich" the TLM.
-- 2007 A.D., Pope Benedict XVI said "There is no contradiction between the two editions of the Roman Missal. In the history of the liturgy there is growth and progress, but no rupture."
-- 2007 A.D., Pope Benedict XVI:
1. Praised the OF's "value" and "holiness."
2. Declared that TLM-only communities are not permitted to exclude the Novus Ordo from said communities.
"Needless to say, in order to experience full communion, the priests of the communities adhering to the former usage cannot, as a matter of principle, exclude celebrating according to the new books.
"The total exclusion of the new rite would not in fact be consistent with the recognition of its value and holiness."
-- 2007 A.D., Pope Benedict XVI praised the "spiritual richness and the theological depth of" the new Missal.
-- 2007 A.D., Pope Benedict XVI declared that the OF will remain the primary Mass of the Latin Chuurch.
"it is clearly seen that the new Missal will certainly remain the ordinary Form of the Roman Rite."
Pope Benedict XVI...as to why he promulgated Summorum Pontificum:
September 12, 2008 A.D., press conference en route to France:
Q. "What do you say to those who, in France, fear that the "Motu proprio' Summorum Pontificum signals a step backwards from the great insights of the Second Vatican Council? How can you reassure them?
Pope Benedict XVI:
"Their fear is unfounded, for this "Motu Proprio' is merely an act of tolerance, with a pastoral aim, for those people who were brought up with this liturgy, who love it, are familiar with it and want to live with this liturgy.
"They form a small group, because this presupposes a schooling in Latin, a training in a certain culture.
"Yet for these people, to have the love and tolerance to let them live with this liturgy seems to me a normal requirement of the faith and pastoral concern of any Bishop of our Church.
"There is no opposition between the liturgy renewed by the Second Vatican Council and this liturgy."
Despite that which certain folks have pretended, to Pope Benedict XVI, Summorum Pontificum was not a "Marshall Plan" designed to restore the TLM front and center within the Church.
Summorum Pontificum was...
"merely an act of tolerance, with a "pastoral aim," toward "a small group" of Catholics who love the TLM.
"There is no opposition between the liturgy renewed by the Second Vatican Council and this liturgy."
How anyone can call what has happened since the promulgation of the "Ordinary Form" or "Novus Ordo" a "renewal" is beyond insanity! The absolute free-fall an collapse of just about every aspect of life in the Catholic Church speaks for itself.
The Novus Ordo has "renewed" the Church the same way that Bonnie and Clyde "renewed" banks.
Pope Benedict, in his remarks to the Press on 12 September 2008, was being diplomatic. He was well aware that many in the French hierarchy were hostile to SP, and wanted to assuage their fears. The same reassurances are found in the letter to the bishops which accompanied SP.
However, it is clear from the letter, the motu proprio itself, as well as his own writings (particularly in 'Spirit of the Liturgy', published in 2000), that it was not simply a pastoral concession to those few who had been brought up with the older Rite and were still attached to it. SP is above all a statement of an enduring principle.
The principle is this: the Church does not suppress rites which are legitimate and orthodox. 'What was sacred for our ancestors remains sacred and great for us, and it is not permissible that it be suddenly prohibited altogether, nor that it be judged as clearly harmful.'
Whether one regards the Novus Ordo as a great blessing or an unmitigated disaster is immaterial. The late Michael Davies once wrote that he simply wanted the old Rite to be given 'parity of esteem' with the new. That principle has now been affirmed. SP is not merely a prudential concession which can be withdrawn at the whim of a bishop, a Vatican dicastery, or even a pope.
"Such showing contempt for the authority of bishops by younger clergy is a disaster, a further destabilization of Church order, adolescent tyranny, ignoring Church law, and clericalism on steroids."
Lol....now the liberals want to be obedient. Nah you already showed the way. Look at the German bishops. They're doing their own thing.
Also such authority has to be legitimate. Attempting to forbid a valid and clearly orthodox rite of the Church would not count as such.
Should a bishop try to prevent the celebration of the Novus Ordo, he would also be exceeding his remit.
Benedict's legal fiction of 'two forms of the one Roman Rite' is quite clever; you can't repudiate one without repudiating the other. This works both ways; priests who celebrate the EF exclusively cannot deny the validity and legitimacy of the OF.
17 comments:
"Fifty years have passed and we celebrate a golden jubilee! We can give thanks to the Lord for so many things. Above all we can be grateful to Paul VI for all he gave to the Church while suffering for her. In his words and actions the post-Conciliar liturgical reform, which he carried out in faithful obedience to Sacrosanctum Concilium, did not simply aim at a revision of the shape of the liturgy, rather it aimed at the renewal of the Church, the mystery at the centre of his programmatic encyclical Ecclesiam suam.
Fr. Corrado Maggioni, S.M.M.
Under-Secretary of the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments"
Here is what this propagandist should have said:
1) The OF has been an unmitigated disaster, the pews are fairly empty compared to the times prior to the reforms and most Catholics no longer believe in the Real Presence because of the way we celebrate this Mass (receiving Holy Communion standing and in the paw)
2) Many of the priests who celebrate the OF are disobedient making things up as they go along, further destabilizing the OF and making it all about them and displaying their contempt for the Church the Faithful (clericalism on steroids)
3) What Paul VI did was tyrannical and without precedent in Church history (ultra montanism gone wild)
4) I am detached from reality, there has been no Springtime, but since I am a toady and a company man I am obligated to engage in "happy talk" (not unlike religious who wax eloquently about the marvelous reforms in religious life as they are shuttering their convents)
I could go on and cite even more about this manifest failure, but you get the drift. I also would not count on the younger priests obeying any directive to stop celebrating the EF. After all the geriatrics in the clergy have set a fine precedent for ignoring Church law and norms. Goose meet gander.
Upon the rivers of Babylon, there we sat and wept: when we remembered Sion:
On the willows in the midst thereof we hung up our instruments.
For there they that led us into captivity required of us the words of songs. And they that carried us away, said: Sing ye to us a hymn of the songs of Sion.
How shall we sing the song of the Lord in a strange land?
If I forget thee, O Jerusalem, let my right hand be forgotten.
"I also would not count on the younger priests obeying any directive to stop celebrating the EF."
Such showing contempt for the authority of bishops by younger clergy is a disaster, a further destabilization of Church order, adolescent tyranny, ignoring Church law, and clericalism on steroids.
Anonymous K,
Cry me a river - what goes around comes around - thanks for teaching us how to be disobedient! Or as Pope Benedict used to say, whatever was once sacred remains sacred so creepy old lefties have NO authority to ban the EF
The authority of bishops? LOL. You mean like McCarrick and company? Ya, they have a lot of moral authority.
What your post tells me is that you are terrified your little failed OF world is in serious danger of evaporating.
Amazing how so many in the Church today, even in the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments, are living in denial, in a dream world of ideological fantasy.
"Thus the reform that is about to take place everywhere is the response to an authoritative mandate of the Church. It is an act of obedience, a matter of the Church’s being consistent."
Does an ecumenical Council or even the pope have the authority to do this, to impose a liturgy fabricated by ivory tower pseudo-experts, who feared the voice of God speaking in Silence, on the whole Church. Pope Benedict questioned that, as he questioned the suppression of a liturgy that had come down to us solidly through tradition, that is to say, under the guidance through the ages of the Holy Spirit Himself?
Victor,
I think we have to begin to think the unthinkable: these are not men of good will. Or as Paul VI said, the smoke of Satan has entered the Church.
Many bishops, cardinals and 'pope' are working for the other side. Rebellion is the only hope to put a stop to the masonic agenda that is being passed off as the faith.
In my opinion. I would never have thought I would ever even be considering such - then along came Francis.
Dan,
Tragic, but things have been worse in the Church's long history.
As he has returned to the spotlight during the past week, I must say that Fr. Corrado Maggioni's, (S.M.M.) positive assessment of the Ordinary Form echoes Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI's positive assessment of the OF.
-- In 1998 A.D., then-Cardinal Ratzinger said of Pope Saint Paul VI's Missal:
"There is no doubt that this new missal in many respects brought with it a real improvement and enrichment;"
-- As Pope, Benedict XVI offered the OF exclusively in public.
-- In 2007 A.D., Pope Benedict XVI praised the Novus Ordo as having been "welcomed by the Bishops and by the priests and faithful."
-- 2007 A.D., Pope Benedict XVI insisted that the OF and EF are "two uses of the one Roman Rite." The OF and EF are in perfect harmony with each other, according to then-Pope Benedict XVI.
-- 2007 A.D., Pope Benedict via his letter to bishops declared: "It is not appropriate to speak of these two versions of the Roman Missal as if they were “two Rites”. Rather, it is a matter of a twofold use of one and the same rite.:
-- 2007 A.D., Pope Benedict XVI insisted that the Novus Ordo can "enrich" the TLM.
-- 2007 A.D., Pope Benedict XVI said "There is no contradiction between the two editions of the Roman Missal. In the history of the liturgy there is growth and progress, but no rupture."
-- 2007 A.D., Pope Benedict XVI:
1. Praised the OF's "value" and "holiness."
2. Declared that TLM-only communities are not permitted to exclude the Novus Ordo from said communities.
"Needless to say, in order to experience full communion, the priests of the communities adhering to the former usage cannot, as a matter of principle, exclude celebrating according to the new books.
"The total exclusion of the new rite would not in fact be consistent with the recognition of its value and holiness."
-- 2007 A.D., Pope Benedict XVI praised the "spiritual richness and the theological depth of" the new Missal.
-- 2007 A.D., Pope Benedict XVI declared that the OF will remain the primary Mass of the Latin Chuurch.
"it is clearly seen that the new Missal will certainly remain the ordinary Form of the Roman Rite."
Pax.
Mark Thomas
Pope Benedict XVI...as to why he promulgated Summorum Pontificum:
September 12, 2008 A.D., press conference en route to France:
Q. "What do you say to those who, in France, fear that the "Motu proprio' Summorum Pontificum signals a step backwards from the great insights of the Second Vatican Council? How can you reassure them?
Pope Benedict XVI:
"Their fear is unfounded, for this "Motu Proprio' is merely an act of tolerance, with a pastoral aim, for those people who were brought up with this liturgy, who love it, are familiar with it and want to live with this liturgy.
"They form a small group, because this presupposes a schooling in Latin, a training in a certain culture.
"Yet for these people, to have the love and tolerance to let them live with this liturgy seems to me a normal requirement of the faith and pastoral concern of any Bishop of our Church.
"There is no opposition between the liturgy renewed by the Second Vatican Council and this liturgy."
========================================================================================
Despite that which certain folks have pretended, to Pope Benedict XVI, Summorum Pontificum was not a "Marshall Plan" designed to restore the TLM front and center within the Church.
Summorum Pontificum was...
"merely an act of tolerance, with a "pastoral aim," toward "a small group" of Catholics who love the TLM.
"There is no opposition between the liturgy renewed by the Second Vatican Council and this liturgy."
Pax.
Mark Thomas
How anyone can call what has happened since the promulgation of the "Ordinary Form" or "Novus Ordo" a "renewal" is beyond insanity! The absolute free-fall an collapse of just about every aspect of life in the Catholic Church speaks for itself.
The Novus Ordo has "renewed" the Church the same way that Bonnie and Clyde "renewed" banks.
Regarding the EF - The genie is out of the bottle. It's not going back in.
Hey MT,
Here is one of yours!!!! I bet he loves the OF! A typical left-winger like you!
https://heavy.com/news/2019/04/marc-lamparello/
Cletus Ordo,
You are trying to reason with someone who has no reasoning powers
Pope Benedict, in his remarks to the Press on 12 September 2008, was being diplomatic. He was well aware that many in the French hierarchy were hostile to SP, and wanted to assuage their fears. The same reassurances are found in the letter to the bishops which accompanied SP.
However, it is clear from the letter, the motu proprio itself, as well as his own writings (particularly in 'Spirit of the Liturgy', published in 2000), that it was not simply a pastoral concession to those few who had been brought up with the older Rite and were still attached to it. SP is above all a statement of an enduring principle.
The principle is this: the Church does not suppress rites which are legitimate and orthodox. 'What was sacred for our ancestors remains sacred and great for us, and it is not permissible that it be suddenly prohibited altogether, nor that it be judged as clearly harmful.'
Whether one regards the Novus Ordo as a great blessing or an unmitigated disaster is immaterial. The late Michael Davies once wrote that he simply wanted the old Rite to be given 'parity of esteem' with the new. That principle has now been affirmed. SP is not merely a prudential concession which can be withdrawn at the whim of a bishop, a Vatican dicastery, or even a pope.
"Such showing contempt for the authority of bishops by younger clergy is a disaster, a further destabilization of Church order, adolescent tyranny, ignoring Church law, and clericalism on steroids."
Lol....now the liberals want to be obedient. Nah you already showed the way. Look at the German bishops. They're doing their own thing.
John Nolan,
Well said. Unfortunately your wise counsel is lost on ignorant papalotors
Also such authority has to be legitimate. Attempting to forbid a valid and clearly orthodox rite of the Church would not count as such.
Should a bishop try to prevent the celebration of the Novus Ordo, he would also be exceeding his remit.
Benedict's legal fiction of 'two forms of the one Roman Rite' is quite clever; you can't repudiate one without repudiating the other. This works both ways; priests who celebrate the EF exclusively cannot deny the validity and legitimacy of the OF.
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