Saturday, May 5, 2018

IS IT THE HOLY SPIRIT WHO IS THE DISASTER?

The Holy Father speaking off the cuff yesterday to Religious and stating it humorously in Italian, basically showed his religious ideology which is  his guiding force, creating disaster but calling it unity in diversity. STUNNING! But this is the clearest expression by Francis of His Holiness style of leadership and where he is leading the Barque of Peter:

Sometimes speaking off the cuff, Pope Francis on May 4, 2018, painted a rather ironic picture of the Holy Spirit.
His remarks came during an audience with participants in the International Convention promoted by the Congregation for the Institutes of Consecrated Life and the Societies of Apostolic Life,
“This Holy Spirit is a disaster because He never tires of being creative!” the Holy Father said, drawing laughter from the group gathered in Paul VI Hall in the Vatican. “Now, with the new forms of consecrated life, He is truly creative, with the charisms… It is interesting: He is the Author of diversity but at the same time the Creator of unity.
“This is the Holy Spirit. And with this diversity of charisms and many things, He makes the unity of the Body of Christ, and also the unity of consecrated life. And this too is a challenge.”

40 comments:

John Nolan said...

All this talk of creativity and 'surprises' looks like a smokescreen for innovation, which will then be camouflaged as 'pastoral provision'.

Fortunately there are a lot of acute minds out there who can see through it and are not afraid to say so.

PF is slowly but surely digging his own grave with his mouth.

Anonymous said...

Ok so now God is the author of confusion and division. The cardinals better address the validity of that man’s position before the next phony synod takes place. Francis is doing his best to turn the Catholic Faith into the Lutheran Church and nobody in the hierarchy is doing anything. Once again it’s a cleric who is damaging the Church. Typical. Oh well off to the SSPX.

Dan said...

Gosh and I thought confusion and division was a sign that the diabolical was in play.

Dear Cardinals, can we please have a Catholic pope next time?

TJM said...

When I was young I was taught "order is the first rule of Heaven." It is time for Heaven to do a "recall" on this faulty product

Anonymous said...

Yes, that bothersome Holy Spirit should learn his place! He should STOP immediately causing disaster for the self-righteous, the proud, the oppressors, those who bear false witness, those who commit adultery, those who kill, those who will give their last measure of devotion to maintain the status quo that make them feel comfortable and superior.

Drat that Holy Spirit!

Why must there be division? Why ... must ... there ... be .... division.....?

"From now on a household of five will be divided, three against two and two against three;
a father will be divided against his son and a son against his father, a mother against her daughter and a daughter against her mother, a mother-in-law against her daughter-in-law and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law.”

When the comfortable are made to feel uncomfortable by the working the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit is working in our midst.

Fr. Allan J. McDonald said...

Ann at 9:01--
You must be my age or older because what the pope is doing and saying and what you have just wonderfully said as an apologetic against Catholics is the polemics I was taught in the 1970's seminary.

Vatican II had created such tension, confusion and polarization in the 1960's and 70's that progressives in the Church more interested in the "spirit" of Vatican II than Vatican II itself asserted that all of this confusion is the work of the Holy Spirit and to do precisely what you have described "When the comfortable are made to feel uncomfortable by the working the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit is working in our midst."

Never mind that you, I and they, were taught or taught that the Scripture passage you comment upon was directed towards persecuted and martyred Christians who had embraced Jesus and His Church and this caused great division and hatred in pagan and Jewish homes.

Please do not equate Catholics who embrace the truth of Jesus as idolators or as pagans and Jews who persecute authentic Catholics who embrace and division!!!!

Victor said...

Does the St Gallen pope actually believe that he is following the voice of the Holy Spirit in sowing division and confusion among the faithful? After all, worshiping abstract truth is idolatry because abstract truth is unchangeable while real truth changes according to individual needs thereby naturally sowing division between individuals.

George said...


If our society today was not so much blinded by sinful behavior and the attractions of the world, and it's collective conscience not so darkened, what we hold to be true would prevail, because the Truth which is embodied in our Faith is greater than anything which is in opposition to it, because it source is God, from whom all things come, and who is Truth itself. We are not losing the arguments for what we hold to be true, because our arguments and positions come from those teachings given to the Church that come from God and are evidence of His great love for us. Relativism, secular progressivism, and hedonism have become the rule of many in the world that we live in.
It is understandable, given the reality of where our society and the Church are today, to become dispirited and possessed of an attitude that is far from positive. Let that not be our way because our way is the way of Christ, in whom we should have an unwavering faith, since He loved us enough to suffer and die for our benefit. When the inclination to the negative presents itself ,we should bring ourselves to focus on what God has done and continues to do for us.
God, who knows us fully and intimately because it is He who place a soul in each of us, and even went as far as to become one of us, does not desire us to function in our day to day existence as one who has little or no faith, or to appear to others as being bereft of hope . It is not pleasing to Him if we are possessed of a negative, less that Christian disposition. Let us always "fight the good fight", but not allow ourselves to lapse into a spirit of cynicism. Although the travails of life can incline us this way, it is not good to let difficulties and negative impositions take control and rule over us.

Whenever you find yourself lapsing into a negative disposition, pray to God to resist and overcome it. Pray, and pray earnestly and with fervor, for what God desires in your own life and in the lives of others, and especially for those who make up our Holy Church on earth.

Anonymous said...

The HF, Pope Francis, is the duly elected head of the Catholic Church. Very few even of his millions of Catholic detractors would question this fact apart from odd cranks, who themselves exist on the Catholic Church periferies.

However, we are all familiar by now of behaviors, controversial saying of the HF widely reported in Church and secular publications. What is disturbing to many (but acclaimed by many others) is his reported advocacy to go against traditional biblical teachings and long and well settled doctrines of the Catholic faith.

The post V-2 Catholic Church first been first assaulted by the Spirit of the Council revolutionaries, the calamity more or less managed by JP 2 and Benedict XVI. Just as we thought the worst of it was behind us comes the current Papacy. As a result a level of confusion has entered the Church the undoing of which will no doubt require Divine intervention.

In the 16th century, in the face of the enthusiastic attacks by various reformers, Catholics claimed our Church as the one true Church of Christ. This claim was based on scriptural evidence and on Sacred Tradition. In modern times, the Spirit of the V-2 Council innovators and the current Papacy appear unjustly to advocate reforming various dogmas of the Church long ago fixed and incorporated in Sacred Tradition or countermanding clear biblical teachings on marriage and the Eucharistic discipline; the most upsetting of which lately concerns Amoris Let. and several German bishops advocating opening the communion lines to protestants married to Catholics spouses.

A new Pope changes his name when elected. This is a symbolic gesture which demands of him to remain faithful to the Magisterium of the ages all the way to Saint Peter the first Vicar of Christ. Vatican Council 1 although declared the Pope infallible when teaching established doctrines of the faith and morals. It made this very clear. It did not authorize him to by hook or crook invent new concepts a la the 16th century protestant divines.

Anonymous said...

Vatican 2 did not create "confusion and polarization" any more than the Declaration of Independence caused the American Revolution or Luther's 95 Theses caused the Protestant Reformation.

We cite many Scriptural pericopes and apply to contemporary circumstances for which they were not written. Yes, the author of Luke may very well have had the problems of his day in mind, but that does not mean that the passage has no meaning for today.

Afflicting the comfortable - which those afflicted may well see as "disaster" - is a sure sign the Spirit is a'movin' all over this land.

Mark Thomas said...

Anonymous said..."Just as we thought the worst of it was behind us comes the current Papacy."

Who thought that?

Throughout Pope Benedict XVI's reign, the collapse of the Church, expect in Africa and Asia, continued. Millions of Catholic abandoned the Faith during Pope Benedict XVI's reign. Dioceses went bankrupt. Dioceses closed parish after parish.

Controversies swirled about Pope Benedict XVI. Statements and actions of his forced Vatican spokesmen to issues "clarifications" of that which he had said and done.

Churchmen suggested openly that the time had arrived to ordain women to the priesthood, bless homosexual unions, administer Holy Communion to non-Catholics...questioned various teachings.

The collapse of the Faith was so profound during Pope Benedict XVI's reign that he acknowledged the following:

ADDRESS OF HIS HOLINESS BENEDICT XVI TO PARTICIPANTS IN THE PLENARY MEETING OF THE CONGREGATION FOR THE DOCTRINE OF THE FAITH

Friday, 27 January 2012

"As we know, in vast areas of the earth faith risks being extinguished, like a flame that is no longer fed. We are facing a profound crisis of faith, a loss of the religious sense that constitutes the greatest challenge to the Church today."
==================================================================================

Pope Benedict XVI painted an horrific portrait of Church life..."we are facing a profound crisis of faith."

Therfore, Anonymous, who on earth believed that the "worst of it was behind us" just prior to the current Pontificate?

Pax.

Mark Thomas

Mark Thomas said...

Anonymous said..."Vatican Council 1 although declared the Pope infallible when teaching established doctrines of the faith and morals. It made this very clear.

"It did not authorize him to by hook or crook invent new concepts a la the 16th century protestant divines."

Exactly.

Jesus Christ protects the Pope from teaching error to the Faithful.

Vatican Council I said the following in regard to the Pope:

"And since that saying of our lord Jesus Christ, You are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, cannot fail of its effect, the words spoken are confirmed by their consequences.

"For in the apostolic see the catholic religion has always been preserved unblemished, and sacred doctrine been held in honor."
=============================================================================

The Church assures us that Pope Francis' Magisterium will not teach us error.

Pax.

Mark Thomas

Anonymous said...

Anonymous 2

There has been a "spirit is a'movin' all over this land" for the last 60
years or so and continues to do so, but that "spirit" has been one in opposition
to the Holy Spirit. Of course that "spirit" will one day be vanquished.

TJM said...

MT - zzzzzzzzzzz

Dan said...

Isn't that sweet. Mark Thomas calls it "Pope Francis' magisterium" without realizing that THIS is exactly why so many regular Catholics are getting concerned. We would prefer the Pope to stick to the Church's magisterium.

Carol H. said...

Thank you, George, for the well thought out words of encouragement. You are right, we cannot allow the chaos we see to disturb our inner peace. We must keep our faith and our hearts focused on Christ. Satan has found an avenue to drive the faithful away from the Church, so of course he is going to exploit it for all it is worth. We must remain faithful, and know that Jesus meant what He said when he stated that the gates of hell will not prevail against the Church.

John Nolan said...

Mark Thomas

It is an error to believe that sacramental communion is possible without ecclesial communion. Yet this is what Cardinal Marx is advocating, under the cover of 'pastoral provision'.

Since PF has not seen fit to rule on the issue, I suppose you can say that he is not positively teaching error. Yet there is a legal maxim: Qui tacet, consentire videtur.

I can't see any of PF's predecessors (with the possible exception of the 'weathervane pope' Paul VI) remaining silent.

I suppose you think the Holy Ghost is saying to him: 'Keep quiet, Frankie. Confirming the brethren is less important than appearing to disagree with the majority opinion of an episcopal conference.'

Anonymous said...

The Devil can and will imitate the Holy Spirit. Just on this blog he calls himself Mark Thomas. Somebody call the real MT and let him know he has competition.

rcg said...

Whether he means to or not, Pope Francis appears to enjoy using two simplistic rules of logic: the exception does not prove the rule and the error of the preconceived notion. Rather than directly affirm Church teaching he directs the German bishops to “make a mess” and essentially reconstruct the rules for intercommunion from the ground up. Like a student building a mathematical proof the bishops will convince themselves of the same truth using the current social situations. If he simply stated Church rules and teaching then the Bishops and their flocks would remain confused about how they can address the situation. This lack of direct guidance and riddling makes the Pope appear more like Yoda than Peter. But that would be consistant with his general approach.

TJM said...

Man, I thought I was an ultramontanist until I met the unhinged and sycophantic, MT.

Mark Thomas said...

Dan said..."Mark Thomas calls it "Pope Francis' magisterium" without realizing that THIS is exactly why so many regular Catholics are getting concerned. We would prefer the Pope to stick to the Church's magisterium."

Pope Francis' Magisterium. The Magisterium of Pope Francis. Magisterium of Pope Benedict XVI, etc. Standard usage.
==========================================================================

Example: 2008 A.D. Remarks to Participants in the Congress on “The Legacy of the Magisterium of Pius XII and the Second Vatican Council"

Pope Benedict XVI:

"I’m happy to welcome you on the occasion of the congress on “The Legacy of the Magisterium of Pius XII and the Second Vatican Council,” promoted by the Pontifical Lateran University together with the Pontifical Gregorian University."

"The Magisterium of Pius XII"...again, standard usage.

Today, the Holy People of God submit to Pope Francis' Magisterium.

Pax.

Mark Thomas

Gene said...

MMM...you are a heretic, you are.

TJM said...

Gene, unfortunately MT lacks the cranial capacity to understand

Dan said...

Mark Thomas you can't point to this being standard usage over a long period of time because this isn't a standard. So you found one example of use. You however must be intelligent enough to know exactly what I meant, and the reason this might cause concern, but refuse to face it yourself.

Mark Thomas said...

Dan, all my life I've encountered the usage in question. Pope "X's" Magisterium...the Magisterium of Pope "X,"...the Pope's Magisterium...the Papal Magisterium.

I am amazed that you haven't encountered said terms.

I recall old SSPX literature that employed the phrase "magisterium of the pope."

Standard usage.

Pax.

Mark Thomas

ByzRC said...

Mark Thomas -

Weak argument (bordering on claptrap if not already there). Please acquaint yourself with the meaning of magisterium.

TJM said...

ByzRC,

Lots of luck! MT is a cut and paste type, not a thinker

Mark Thomas said...

Note to Dan:

ARCHBISHOP GERHARD LUDWIG MÜLLER 13 September 2012.

He said that the SSPX must accept "the Magisterium of Pope."

=================================================================

Note to Cardinal MÜLLER: Do not say that again as Dan doesn't care for that phrase.

Pax.

Mark Thomas

Mark Thomas said...

Anyway Dan...take up your dislike with certain usages of "Magisterium" with Cardinal Ratzinger who, when he was Pope, employed the phrase "the Magisterium of Pius XII."

Pax.

Mark Thomas

Mark Thomas said...

Uh-oh, Dan, I thought that I was finished with the "Magisterium" discussion when, incredibly, while just having read an address that Pope Saint John Paul II had given in 1995 A.D., I encountered his use of the phrase "my Magisterium."

http://www.vatican.va/jubilee_2000/magazine/documents/ju_mag_01051997_p-28_en.html

"The great intimate knowledge of the genesis of Gaudium et Spes enabled me to appreciate in great depth the prophetic value and to widely undertake the contents in my Magisterium..."

============================================================================

Pope Benedict XVI: "The Magisterium of Pope Pius XII.

Pope Saint John Paul II: "my Magisterium."

Dan, the above Popes didn't share your concern about the use of the term "Magisterium."

Pax.

Mark Thomas

Mark Thomas said...

Sorry, Dan, but it just doesn't stop.

http://www.lastampa.it/2017/02/07/vaticaninsider/the-magisterium-of-pope-francis-his-predecessors-come-to-his-defence-x5jzE4YtghvlnRvSvcolGM/pagina.html

Vatican Insider headline: "The Magisterium of Pope Francis:"

"It would seem obvious to most Catholics and commentators that the magisterium of Pope Francis..."

===================================================================================

Dan, are you certain that you've never encountered the use of "Magisterium" as I noted?

Funny, but I keep finding folks who have...

:-)

Pax.

Mark Thomas

Mark Thomas said...

Dan, I don't want to keep proving you wrong. So, just one final reference...

2008 A.D., from 30 Days magazine...article by Cardinal Fiorenzo Angelini (requiescat in pace).

Cardinal Angelini:

-- "Solely in the Dogmatic Constitution Lumen Gentium there are 58 citations referring to the Magisterium of Pius XII."

-- "...the link between the Magisterium of Pius XII and the documents approved by Vatican II has always seemed beyond dispute, confirming a clear magisterial continuity."

-- "In his Magisterium Pius XII wanted to eliminate claims of incompatibility between faith and science."

-- "Social sensitivity and the issues addressed by Gaudium et Spes also found timely treatment in the Magisterium and ministry of Pius XII."

-- "The radio messages of Pius XII, which became from his election onwards the instrument of his universal Magisterium..."

-- "There is a factor that binds together the whole activity, the entire Magisterium and ministry of Pius XII..."

======================================================================

Dan, peace and good health to you and your family.

Pax.

Mark Thomas

TJM said...

It is a misnomer to refer to the Magisterium as the Magisterium of a particular Pope. That misuse may have crept into the common parlance, but it is not correct, only to simpletons.


The Church’s teaching authority is known as the Magisterium. It is called “living” because it interprets Scripture and Tradition for each generation of believers, in an uninterrupted line back to Christ himself.


The Magisterium exercises its authority in different degrees. The highest degree is when it defines dogmas, “when it proposes truths contained in divine Revelation or having a necessary connection with them, in a form obliging the Christian people to an irrevocable adherence of faith” (Catechism of the Catholic Church, No. 88). This is called extraordinary Magisterium.

Ordinary magisterium is that exercised by the pope alone or by the bishops teaching in communion with him “when, without arriving at an infallible definition and without pronouncing in a ‘definitive manner,’ they propose ... a teaching that leads to better understanding of Revelation in matters of faith and morals” (Catechism, No. 892).

Anonymous 2 said...

Anonymous at 8:51 p.m. on May 5:

I think you must have confused your Anonymous with your Vatican. =) I did not write the post at 5:04 p.m.

Dan said...

For your consideration from Pastor aeternus - "For the Holy Spirit was promised to the successors of Peter not so that they might, by his revelation, make known some new doctrine, but that, by his assistance, they might religiously guard and faithfully expound the revelation or deposit of faith transmitted by the apostles."

Gee Mark Thomas, I kind of take this to mean that the magisterium is not just something each pope can make up.

How hard would it have been for the Pope to remind the German bishops of the teaching of the Catholic Church rather than sending them away to "vague up" their document? The Pope might have also reminded the German bishops that it really isn't so difficult to convert to the Catholic faith if one wishes to receive Communion.

TJM said...

Dan,

Now worries, MT is scurrying around looking for dozens of non sequiturs to cut and paste to support his asinine position

Mark Thomas said...

Dan said..."Gee Mark Thomas, I kind of take this to mean that the magisterium is not just something each pope can make up."

Dan, our Popes, protected by Jesus Christ, have proclaimed to the Holy People of God the Catholic Faith immaculate.

Do you doubt that Rome has preserved the True Religion?

Pax.

Mark Thomas

Dan said...

Further, I think it is so worried about being relevant and popular that it is failing to express the truths which were freely expressed in our grandparent's time. I don't know why this has happened, but it pains me severely.

Dan said...

Further, look at Miss Popularity himself -Fr. James Martin SJ. It isn't difficult or discriminatory to say that the Church teaches chastity for ALL single persons, and where individuals fail in chastity, the Church offers the sacrament of reconciliation. However this isn't happening the entire Church is becoming whimpy.

Dan said...

Final comment. Mark T, I hold no animosity toward you, but having read your comments over a couple years and blogs, what frustrates me is the fact that you rightly know that the Church holds the truth, but you seem not to notice that the Church is failing miserably at proclaiming it. Or perhaps you do notice, but you have never acknowledged this.

Pax back at you....