Oh yeah, our priest does the same, claims he wants to help remove the mystery of what he's doing, to get the communicants more deeply involved. STUPID, but then the guitarist and soloist are way too close for that matter and look sooo concerned, totally destroys the idea of "sanctuary" which is (or was) the whole idea
as far as well heeled, our local parishes swap first communion dresses and suit jackets all over the place. always did however when i was young, MANY moons ago, early 60"s from the age of 3 or so I and everybody else had a Sunday suit (with a clip on tie) and my sisters had Sunday dresses too. in the early 70's I had a sweet denim 3 piece suit, and by 76 the god awful platform shoes and leisure suits, but we all dressed up, now the church seems to be in it"s late grunge stage
Should have said well heeled and that is a good crop of young Catholics, but, it all depends upon the parish...
It could represent a thriving parish or it could represent only a new 10,000 member church following the money to wealthy suburbia doing their best to please donor parents, and of typical modern Catholic-lite parents whose Catholic lives consist only of several Masses per year, whose last confession dates back to their own First Communion or Confirmation, and whose children will never stay or return as soon as able to say no thanks and it stick.
But, it sure does look good anyhow, and I wish them the best.
As for the guitarist playing, this is an outgrowth of following the protestant model of emotionalism rather than spiritual, it quite common, and many parishes feel as if something now broken if mood music not playing without ceasing during each and every activity....that the Mass is in need of repair if any awkward silence should intrude, so jarring to the hypnotic effect, and when any extended silence reigns, folk snap out of their trance and start looking around to see what might be the problem.
We have the USCCB to blame for that, who in their suggestions taken as mandate, there is no communing with God allowed during Holy Communion, and the choir and congregation should be singing during their communion.
As for the reality of the celebration as pictured, my heart goes out to the kids for being used as a prop to please their parents photo ops during this Mass, and them forced to stand motionless as setpiece angelic choir statues during the entire consecration. It also might even have them kneeling unsupported and unpadded for extended periods, but that modern a celebration hopefully had mercy on them in that regard to prevent a domino effect display, and so only condemned to orans attention the entire ordeal.
The Egyptian said...claims he wants to help remove the mystery of what he's doing
welp, there goes The Rosary lol
they will remove the mystery alright....to the point that the Mass will be no different than any other 'worship service' and many of those kids, as adults, will be sitting in some 'ecclesial community' partaking of crackers and grape juice.
The more I look at the photo, the altar design, the crowd of children around on every side, the more I expect that what happened next was the performer dunked the large wafer in the clear pitcher of KoolAid or whatever and pulled out a large squirming white bunny to the delight and applause and laughter of the crowd. The entire thing appears the set for a magic act by Mr. Wizard.
Bob, are you sure it's a pitcher on the table? I can't see the handle, so it might be a decanter. You'd better check with 'Anonymous', our resident expert on liturgical abuse.
As for the poppadom-sized wafer and the one-handed elevation, this was modelled by JP II. Perhaps the priest in the photograph likewise suffers from Parkinson's disease.
In Beethoven's Missa Solemnis the Sanctus and Benedictus are separated by an instrumental 'praeludium' which would cover the elevations. Perhaps our guitarist is emulating that august example.
I, too, can be charitable when it suits me. Or is it irony? Now there's the rub.
Didn’t know where to post this, but it’s important I think. Our priest has not and is not wearing a mask: https://www.sacbee.com/news/coronavirus/article243650547.html
Have you ever read about the British having a high-context culture and the USA having a low-context culture as an explanation of why British irony often goes right over American head?
People from a high-context culture often prefer communication that is sophisticated, nuanced and layered. Messages are both spoken and read between the lines. British people will often say things with implicit meanings that are contrary to their literal meanings. High-context cultures tend to have a long shared history. Usually they are relationships orientated societies where networks of connections are passed from generation to generation, generating more shared context among community members.
By contrast, the United States, a country with a mere few hundred years of shared history, has been shaped by enormous inflows of immigrants from various countries around the world, all with different histories, different languages and different backgrounds. Because they had little shared context, Americans learned quickly that if they wanted to pass a message they had to make it as explicit and clear as possible, with little room for ambiguity and misunderstanding.
Americans are pragmatic talkers, inclined to speak in terms that will maximize clarity for the maximum number of people AND most Americans expect others to do the same.
The above is one explanation why many Americans often "don't get irony".
And yet Brits and Americans have a similar sense of humour, particularly when it comes to satire. Twenty-eight years ago I read PJ O'Rourke's 'Give War a Chance'. The title itself is inspired, and the articles are trenchant yet hilarious. Bill Bryson is the funniest travel writer around and understands both the British and American psyche.
Irony has to be subtle. If I refer to my 'erudition and eloquence' I am indulging in a form of irony which turns self-deprecatory irony on its head. Yet a certain anonymous commentator on this blog, who has a line in crude sarcasm but no sense of irony, accuses me of having a superiority complex. The joke's on him; the irony is that he doesn't realize it.
The following is from an American journalist based in London:
American society's irony deficiency is often noted, but the irony about that irony is that American humour still dominates the Anglosphere. That is because there really isn't an all-American humour. American comedy is actually an expression of the many strands of it's ethnic make-up...... Jewish-Americans, Irish-Americans and African-Americans etc all use irony effectively and in jokes that travel the world well. But Americans unhyphenated ?! They still haven't figured out that when an English person says "If you're ever in the neighborhood, please drop in" it doesn't literally mean they can drop in. Many other examples could be given. It can take some time for an American to realize that often an Englishman can be being polite but not sincere.
It's true that Brits don't like people dropping in unannounced. Yet Germans might be offended if you were in the neighbourhood and didn't drop in, and if you did would probably offer to put you up for the night.
It's probably due to the fact that distances are greater in Continental Europe. England is a small country - you can drive from the south coast to the Scottish border comfortably in a day, just stopping for lunch.
Well I certainly don’t get Trump’s supposed irony. But maybe that’s just because he tried to cover up his massive faux pas by claiming he wasn’t being serious after all!
21 comments:
That appears to be a well heeled parish.
Oh yeah, our priest does the same, claims he wants to help remove the mystery of what he's doing, to get the communicants more deeply involved.
STUPID, but then the guitarist and soloist are way too close for that matter and look sooo concerned, totally destroys the idea of "sanctuary" which is (or was) the whole idea
as far as well heeled, our local parishes swap first communion dresses and suit jackets all over the place. always did
however when i was young, MANY moons ago, early 60"s from the age of 3 or so I and everybody else had a Sunday suit (with a clip on tie) and my sisters had Sunday dresses too. in the early 70's I had a sweet denim 3 piece suit, and by 76 the god awful platform shoes and leisure suits, but we all dressed up, now the church seems to be in it"s late grunge stage
I have seen this many many times before
I'd like to know why that man is strumming his guitar during the elevation.
Should have said well heeled and that is a good crop of young Catholics, but, it all depends upon the parish...
It could represent a thriving parish or it could represent only a new 10,000 member church following the money to wealthy suburbia doing their best to please donor parents, and of typical modern Catholic-lite parents whose Catholic lives consist only of several Masses per year, whose last confession dates back to their own First Communion or Confirmation, and whose children will never stay or return as soon as able to say no thanks and it stick.
But, it sure does look good anyhow, and I wish them the best.
As for the guitarist playing, this is an outgrowth of following the protestant model of emotionalism rather than spiritual, it quite common, and many parishes feel as if something now broken if mood music not playing without ceasing during each and every activity....that the Mass is in need of repair if any awkward silence should intrude, so jarring to the hypnotic effect, and when any extended silence reigns, folk snap out of their trance and start looking around to see what might be the problem.
We have the USCCB to blame for that, who in their suggestions taken as mandate, there is no communing with God allowed during Holy Communion, and the choir and congregation should be singing during their communion.
As for the reality of the celebration as pictured, my heart goes out to the kids for being used as a prop to please their parents photo ops during this Mass, and them forced to stand motionless as setpiece angelic choir statues during the entire consecration. It also might even have them kneeling unsupported and unpadded for extended periods, but that modern a celebration hopefully had mercy on them in that regard to prevent a domino effect display, and so only condemned to orans attention the entire ordeal.
The liturgical abuses present in that photo are shocking. This has to be an old photo, pre-pandemic, kind of a that 70s Show moment.
At least, for the first communicants, it's ad orientem.
Let's not.
Let's defrock instead.
The Egyptian said...claims he wants to help remove the mystery of what he's doing
welp, there goes The Rosary lol
they will remove the mystery alright....to the point that the Mass will be no different than any other 'worship service' and many of those kids, as adults, will be sitting in some 'ecclesial community' partaking of crackers and grape juice.
The Liturgical abuses in this picture bring back PTLAD :p (Post Traumatic Liturgical Abuse disorder)
The more I look at the photo, the altar design, the crowd of children around on every side, the more I expect that what happened next was the performer dunked the large wafer in the clear pitcher of KoolAid or whatever and pulled out a large squirming white bunny to the delight and applause and laughter of the crowd. The entire thing appears the set for a magic act by Mr. Wizard.
this is as close as I can come, from my deceased blog
http://germanegyptian.blogspot.com/2008/12/more-home-church.html
very old memories, sigh, very old
in our little country parish we made our first communion in the 1st grade, helped with the number of mass servers
Bob, are you sure it's a pitcher on the table? I can't see the handle, so it might be a decanter. You'd better check with 'Anonymous', our resident expert on liturgical abuse.
As for the poppadom-sized wafer and the one-handed elevation, this was modelled by JP II. Perhaps the priest in the photograph likewise suffers from Parkinson's disease.
In Beethoven's Missa Solemnis the Sanctus and Benedictus are separated by an instrumental 'praeludium' which would cover the elevations. Perhaps our guitarist is emulating that august example.
I, too, can be charitable when it suits me. Or is it irony? Now there's the rub.
Didn’t know where to post this, but it’s important I think. Our priest has not and is not wearing a mask:
https://www.sacbee.com/news/coronavirus/article243650547.html
"...or is it irony?"
John,
Have you ever read about the British having a high-context culture and the USA having a low-context culture as an explanation of why British irony often goes right over American head?
People from a high-context culture often prefer communication that is sophisticated, nuanced and layered. Messages are both spoken and read between the lines. British people will often say things with implicit meanings that are contrary to their literal meanings.
High-context cultures tend to have a long shared history. Usually they are relationships orientated societies where networks of connections are passed from generation to generation, generating more shared context among community members.
By contrast, the United States, a country with a mere few hundred years of shared history, has been shaped by enormous inflows of immigrants from various countries around the world, all with different histories, different languages and different backgrounds. Because they had little shared context, Americans learned quickly that if they wanted to pass a message they had to make it as explicit and clear as possible, with little room for ambiguity and misunderstanding.
Americans are pragmatic talkers, inclined to speak in terms that will maximize clarity for the maximum number of people AND most Americans expect others to do the same.
The above is one explanation why many Americans often "don't get irony".
Anonymous
And yet Brits and Americans have a similar sense of humour, particularly when it comes to satire. Twenty-eight years ago I read PJ O'Rourke's 'Give War a Chance'. The title itself is inspired, and the articles are trenchant yet hilarious. Bill Bryson is the funniest travel writer around and understands both the British and American psyche.
Irony has to be subtle. If I refer to my 'erudition and eloquence' I am indulging in a form of irony which turns self-deprecatory irony on its head. Yet a certain anonymous commentator on this blog, who has a line in crude sarcasm but no sense of irony, accuses me of having a superiority complex. The joke's on him; the irony is that he doesn't realize it.
The following is from an American journalist based in London:
American society's irony deficiency is often noted, but the irony about that irony is that American humour still dominates the Anglosphere. That is because there really isn't an all-American humour. American comedy is actually an expression of the many strands of it's ethnic make-up......
Jewish-Americans, Irish-Americans and African-Americans etc all use irony effectively and in jokes that travel the world well.
But Americans unhyphenated ?!
They still haven't figured out that when an English person says "If you're ever in the neighborhood, please drop in" it doesn't literally mean they can drop in. Many other examples could be given. It can take some time for an American to realize that often an Englishman can be being polite but not sincere.
It's true that Brits don't like people dropping in unannounced. Yet Germans might be offended if you were in the neighbourhood and didn't drop in, and if you did would probably offer to put you up for the night.
It's probably due to the fact that distances are greater in Continental Europe. England is a small country - you can drive from the south coast to the Scottish border comfortably in a day, just stopping for lunch.
This is sad and can't believe it happens.
These kids will leave the Novus Ordo just like I did at 18.
-Anthony
Well I certainly don’t get Trump’s supposed irony. But maybe that’s just because he tried to cover up his massive faux pas by claiming he wasn’t being serious after all!
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