Yes, Father, from the photo looking head-on, it looks "okay" (not great in any sense, but okay); I like the screen as an artistic piece. But then you look at the first photo, and you realize how deep that back area with the tabernacle is, and it's such a small pedestal area where the tabernacle is located on. It just gets lost. It's just way too far back and not of any proper size/scale for such a large space. I just get so annoyed when people want to split the altar and tabernacle so far from each other, because God-forbid we might get "confused" between the made-up theory of the "active" presence of Christ on the altar vs. the "reserved" presence in the tabernacle. The tabernacle should have been placed on the front side of the gates, nicely incorporated into it somehow.
Modern take on a rood screen/iconostasis, when modern altar removed...separating the holy of holies from the rest of the tent. And, now, as then, offering some protection from theft and sacrilege.
I think the overall effect is well-designed. A little more color in the ceiling panels might warm the place up a bit.
The Blessed Sacrament chapel may have been a practical consideration as Bob mentioned, in terms of keeping the Blessed Sacrament from profanation. It doesn't look like it is a "separate" chapel used for the celebration of mass. If the church is open 24/7, the protection is a good idea. On the other hand, the chapel area may be open, with the gates keeping folks from wandering around into the church proper.
"I just get so annoyed when people want to split the altar and tabernacle so far from each other, because God-forbid we might get "confused" between the made-up theory of the "active" presence of Christ on the altar vs. the "reserved" presence in the tabernacle."
Agree. This has created more confusion given the inconsistency that now exists across Roman churches that are not cathedrals. The NO has created so much unnecessary clutter in sanctuaries with screens that serve no purpose, eucharistic towers, crucifixes hanging from the ceiling by cables, tables for this, tables for that, chairs for everyone in some instances it looks like we're worshiping the pipe organ if formed into a musical reredos in addition to having nearby the organ, piano as well as room for the jug band. Fortunately, we do not have this stupidity within the Byzantine churches. It's a shame these parishes have so much money to waste on these monuments to.......I'm not entirely sure what.
I see your point however, the Byzantine (Ruthenian) Church in the United States gravitated toward the elimination of the iconostas (among other things) or, it's relocation on the back wall behind the altar during the +Bishop Nicholas Elko era (1950s into the 60s). This ultimately became a latinization as it had a negative effect on both the liturgy and eastern spirituality more generally. Now acknowledged as a failure, many parishes are reclaiming their eastern heritage, spirituality and liturgical praxis by rebuilding.
Christianity arose out of Jewish worship and maintained same prayer schedule and mystery religion aspects, which go back to the time of Moses, where only the priestly class had full access to all the ritual. From tabernacle tent to Jerusalem temple to early Christian churches both East and West, a curtain closed around the altar from view during certain parts of the rites.
From those curtains evolved both rood screens and the iconostasis/iconostan, even if those two were adopted to different purpose. Aside from England, most rood screens were removed from public churches in the West after Trent, while they stayed in use in some monasteries.
I would imagine this church in question sees their screen as a modern extension of old, while protecting against theft and profanation.
While not a fan of cold stone bare churches, I freely admit many cathedrals were exactly that, free of embellishment, and purely monuments pointing only to heaven, and means by which one arrived there, through Jesus on altar and in the tabernacle. Until relatively recent Luther times, they had no seating and worship was done standing/kneeling as still today in many Eastern rite churches.
What I cannot abide are modern takes on altars, tabernacles, other holy vessels and sacramentals such as candle holders, now so near instantly dated faddish things of asinine insanity, and purely "hammered dog(blank)" as we formerly would critique a co-worker poor handiwork.
And must never forget the famous deep sea diver helmet as a tabernacle in the annals of exceptionally poor taste and artistic vision minus a shred of religious sentiment.
They really should have built another one of these, quite plainly...late 1950s/early 1960s classic, this first link from before the obviously thriving order, shown in the below photo gallery, departed for smaller digs... https://benedictinevolunteers.com/portfolio/st-martin-monastery/
And this link to show it after renovation into a premier "retreat center" with conference rooms, billiard table, and staff which buses tables for guests so they might focus on the important matters over which they chitter-chat likely without ceasing from arrival to departure. A truly holy place. https://terrasancta.org
Meant to add, and sorry for monopolizing this comm box area, the retreat center was found in the bona fides of the new Bishop of Deluth and former Rapid City Administrator bio, he was Director of Spiritual Life and Liturgy at the center in 2018....
I had not much hope, but yet still hoped in finding the center, that it would be a quiet, secluded, place of profound beauty and silence in which folk were guided to experience the living God. What I found was a place with hotel rooms and Wifi, or bunk rooms and detached kitchen area for families wishing to do DIY retreats.
And looking for much of it as an office building lobby or airport terminal.
9 comments:
Yes, Father, from the photo looking head-on, it looks "okay" (not great in any sense, but okay); I like the screen as an artistic piece. But then you look at the first photo, and you realize how deep that back area with the tabernacle is, and it's such a small pedestal area where the tabernacle is located on. It just gets lost. It's just way too far back and not of any proper size/scale for such a large space. I just get so annoyed when people want to split the altar and tabernacle so far from each other, because God-forbid we might get "confused" between the made-up theory of the "active" presence of Christ on the altar vs. the "reserved" presence in the tabernacle. The tabernacle should have been placed on the front side of the gates, nicely incorporated into it somehow.
Modern take on a rood screen/iconostasis, when modern altar removed...separating the holy of holies from the rest of the tent. And, now, as then, offering some protection from theft and sacrilege.
I think the overall effect is well-designed. A little more color in the ceiling panels might warm the place up a bit.
The Blessed Sacrament chapel may have been a practical consideration as Bob mentioned, in terms of keeping the Blessed Sacrament from profanation. It doesn't look like it is a "separate" chapel used for the celebration of mass. If the church is open 24/7, the protection is a good idea. On the other hand, the chapel area may be open, with the gates keeping folks from wandering around into the church proper.
"I just get so annoyed when people want to split the altar and tabernacle so far from each other, because God-forbid we might get "confused" between the made-up theory of the "active" presence of Christ on the altar vs. the "reserved" presence in the tabernacle."
Agree. This has created more confusion given the inconsistency that now exists across Roman churches that are not cathedrals. The NO has created so much unnecessary clutter in sanctuaries with screens that serve no purpose, eucharistic towers, crucifixes hanging from the ceiling by cables, tables for this, tables for that, chairs for everyone in some instances it looks like we're worshiping the pipe organ if formed into a musical reredos in addition to having nearby the organ, piano as well as room for the jug band. Fortunately, we do not have this stupidity within the Byzantine churches. It's a shame these parishes have so much money to waste on these monuments to.......I'm not entirely sure what.
Bob,
I see your point however, the Byzantine (Ruthenian) Church in the United States gravitated toward the elimination of the iconostas (among other things) or, it's relocation on the back wall behind the altar during the +Bishop Nicholas Elko era (1950s into the 60s). This ultimately became a latinization as it had a negative effect on both the liturgy and eastern spirituality more generally. Now acknowledged as a failure, many parishes are reclaiming their eastern heritage, spirituality and liturgical praxis by rebuilding.
Christianity arose out of Jewish worship and maintained same prayer schedule and mystery religion aspects, which go back to the time of Moses, where only the priestly class had full access to all the ritual. From tabernacle tent to Jerusalem temple to early Christian churches both East and West, a curtain closed around the altar from view during certain parts of the rites.
From those curtains evolved both rood screens and the iconostasis/iconostan, even if those two were adopted to different purpose. Aside from England, most rood screens were removed from public churches in the West after Trent, while they stayed in use in some monasteries.
I would imagine this church in question sees their screen as a modern extension of old, while protecting against theft and profanation.
While not a fan of cold stone bare churches, I freely admit many cathedrals were exactly that, free of embellishment, and purely monuments pointing only to heaven, and means by which one arrived there, through Jesus on altar and in the tabernacle. Until relatively recent Luther times, they had no seating and worship was done standing/kneeling as still today in many Eastern rite churches.
What I cannot abide are modern takes on altars, tabernacles, other holy vessels and sacramentals such as candle holders, now so near instantly dated faddish things of asinine insanity, and purely "hammered dog(blank)" as we formerly would critique a co-worker poor handiwork.
And must never forget the famous deep sea diver helmet as a tabernacle in the annals of exceptionally poor taste and artistic vision minus a shred of religious sentiment.
when you look at their old building
https://www.rockiesparish.com/final-mass-at-sacred-heart-church.html
it is a huge improvement
They really should have built another one of these, quite plainly...late 1950s/early 1960s classic, this first link from before the obviously thriving order, shown in the below photo gallery, departed for smaller digs...
https://benedictinevolunteers.com/portfolio/st-martin-monastery/
And this link to show it after renovation into a premier "retreat center" with conference rooms, billiard table, and staff which buses tables for guests so they might focus on the important matters over which they chitter-chat likely without ceasing from arrival to departure. A truly holy place.
https://terrasancta.org
Meant to add, and sorry for monopolizing this comm box area, the retreat center was found in the bona fides of the new Bishop of Deluth and former Rapid City Administrator bio, he was Director of Spiritual Life and Liturgy at the center in 2018....
I had not much hope, but yet still hoped in finding the center, that it would be a quiet, secluded, place of profound beauty and silence in which folk were guided to experience the living God. What I found was a place with hotel rooms and Wifi, or bunk rooms and detached kitchen area for families wishing to do DIY retreats.
And looking for much of it as an office building lobby or airport terminal.
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