Father McDonald, your worries are over, the "Party of Science" has spoken:
New Jersey Governor Phil Murphy indicated Monday that he has no plans to enforce social distancing rules on large groups gathering for anti-racism protests even as non-essential businesses are allowed to reopen only in phases and other large groups are prohibited.
Someone, please explain why you can't have normal attendance at Church but you can have thousands for protesting! Of course, Governor Murphy will reversed himself if President Trump holds a rally. Reasons. LOL
Although the protesters are taking a risk of contracting Covid-19 by interacting outside, it appears to be significantly lower than the risk associated with interacting indoors, as, for example, when in church or at the office:
This said, the science is constantly evolving. Science only deals in probabilities anyway and everything could change tomorrow in the light of new evidence (although some possibilities become so unlikely over time that one can have a considerable degree of confidence in certain scientific “facts” such as the Earth revolving around the Sun). Therefore, as the article counsels, a good dose of humility is appropriate.
"Someone, please explain why you can't have normal attendance at Church but you can have thousands for protesting!"
TJM - Fr. Kavanaugh and others have responded to your comments and questions on earlier threads. You, then, in your typically childish and uncharitable manner, came back at them with rudeness and derision. You make assertions here, and when asked for any supporting argument, you let loose with a tirade that inevitably ends with "abortion."
What on earth makes you think that anyone take you seriously or respond to you now?
All this says is that people who are sick, know they are sick, most times, and they know they are sick with something, but not neccessarily the ChiCom flu.
Given the lack of anti-body tests done nationally and internationally, they are making call based on very little data, and this normally is a near guarantee for eating own words later minus even any salt.
Again, our nation has what appears zero push for widespread testing for live virus and for anti-bodies to see what the truth actually is, and it seems everybody is happy to riot, demand free stuff or they'll take it, and attempt to overthrow a legitimately elected government, and reopen for business as usual to make money, no matter WHAT the virus is actually doing (and which they do not know, see above), and willing for a lot more people to die in between now and when a vaccine developed, either way. They do not even want real PPE in the meantime.
More power to them. Good news, indeed. Non-news is good news.
The reply to TJM was no answer. The risk outdoors is notmally lower than indoors because people outdoors are not normally as packed together as indoors. When they are packed TIGHTER outdoors than indoors, the risks rise proportionally, and then again the more sweat, motion, screaming, and other gyrations.
This is so blatantly obvious it beggars description, but we must not let plain facts, common sense and science get in the way of good political narrative and and a revolution, you know.....we have more important things over which to worry, and if a few thousand abused and marginalized ignorant pawns die in the baking of this revolution, it was for a good cause.
I feel sorry for you. Ideology uber alles. You lost all credibility on that one. Will you be singing the same tune when President Trump’s supporters gather in large numbers (sans the looting and burning)?. No
My opinion of Father Squealer goes down with near every post....this is a man with biology degree and nominally a man consecrated to service of God and his people and their salvation and safety, supporting the view that packed raucus sweaty verbose protests are less dangerous than attending church with spacing as docile sheep.....note he left a weasle out of "of course, the jury still out and its all on you if you take my advice" at the end, spoken as a pure political functionary....
and willing to endanger gullible readers actual lives in support of a purely political narrative of anti-racism protest and revolution fabricated entire from a hijacked and well publicized incident of police excessive force leading to a needless death of man who was a paragon of virtue and entirely blameless in the events leading up to his arrest and death, at least going by the Father's narrative. I imagine he also runs a Church of Judas on the side, the poor hapless pawn of God.
You should be.....there are too many phrases.....I look forward to hearing your excuses at the final judgement.
My responses, unlike yours, have nothing to do with ideology whatsoever. If Trump holds his rallies outdoors, I would say the same thing if the science supports it.
I know that you choose not to read what someone actually writes, or you choose to deliberately misunderstand or misrepresent it. As another comment intimates on this thread, it is impossible to have a rational discussion with a True Believer and Trump Worshiper such as yourself. I am sorry I tried. It is time I learned how pointless it is.
For other contributors to this Blog, who are rational, however: There are many factors determining the level of risk. All I meant to suggest is that those protesting outdoors generally seem to be running a significantly lower level of risk than those engaging in comparable indoor interactions. But, of course, common sense would suggest that protesters packed tightly together without masks, yelling in each other’s faces, and not moving run a higher risk than protesters at protests in which one of more of these factors is lacking. So, presumably, one needs to make distinctions between different types of protest gatherings, judging the risk at each one on its merits, including also the degree of airflow resulting from wind speed.
I also made it clear that a good dose of humility was necessary because the evidence may change and judgments may have to be modified accordingly. Subject to this caveat, here is some more information that seems relevant:
Now, Bob, where has anyone supported, "... the view that packed raucus sweaty verbose protests are less dangerous than attending church with spacing as docile sheep...?
I'll tell you the answer to save you the time: Nowhere.
The report is consistent with what we know about how diseases are spread. Displayed symptoms like runny nose, sneezing and coughing aspirate the virus in droplets and contaminate the sick person’s exterior so there is more density in the touch transfers. If one is asymptotic then the virus is relatively contained.
I am less convinced that the rioters will be in less contact with each other than parishioners would be. The demonstrators link arms, hand each other shards of brick, lift up comrades after combating police, etc. it might be interesting to see if tear or CN gasses have any impact on controlling the virus.
No, ideology is your guidepost. There is already evidence being reported that the packed protest rallies may be spreading the coronavirus again, but you don't care. I know Dr. Fauci has expressed his concern about it. Where was science which allowed hundreds of people into Walmart, but closed Churches altogether? Particularly when most people spend FAR less time in Church than they do Walmart on a weekly basis.
The media praising the protests and looting is already pivoting back to say crowds are bad where Trump rallies are concerned. Instead of reading biased, left-wing rags like the San Francisco Chronicle, or the New York Times (which sets breathtaking records for lying), and the Washington Post, take a gander at the alternate media which does a far better and fairer job of reporting the news. For example, Instapundit, a news aggregation website run by Professor Glen Reynolds of the University of Tennessee law school is a good place to start.
You are lucky you are not a professor at fake University UCLA where you can be a respected accounting professor for 39 years but be suspended and investigated for discrimination because you would not exempt black students from their final exam due to Mr. George Floyd, but I imagine you are fine with that, or if you aren't, you would NEVER dare state so publicly in the faculty lounge.
Although not ordinarily a Mitch McConnell fan, his words on the senate floor should be read by all clergy, media, politicians and academics:
In remarks from the Senate floor Tuesday, Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell pointed out the Democrats’ double standard when it comes to public gatherings amid the coronavirus pandemic.
The Kentucky Republican took Democrats to task for their duplicity in banning religious gatherings and forcing citizens to remain locked away indoors while politicians support and even participate in mass gatherings in response to the death of George Floyd.
McConnell stated he has “no criticism” for the peaceful demonstrators exercising their right to speak freely. What is “baffling,” he explained, is the inconsistency of leaders who have spent months hectoring Christians and other law-abiding Americans for attempting to gather to exercise other aspects of their First Amendment rights, including their right to religious liberty.
McConnell excoriated Democratic leaders and the media for forcing citizens to put their lives “totally on ice,” and questioned the dangerous precedent set by Democrats when it comes to their selective enforcement of the First Amendment.
To the Democrats who have taken it upon themselves to tell citizens how to behave, when to work and where to congregate, the Senate GOP leader proclaimed, “our national life during this pandemic has slid toward a double standard.”
“Many Americans feel they’ve just seen those fastidious regulations and that puritanical zeal disappear in an instant because a new cause has emerged that powerful people agree with,” McConnell said.
“A month ago, small protest demonstrations were widely condemned as reckless and selfish. Now, massive rallies that fill entire cities are not just praised, but in fact, are called especially brave because of the exact same health risks that brought condemnation when the cause was different,” he continued.
Indeed, mere weeks ago, some Americans who demanded their lives back saw their Constitutional rights violated, and were threatened, fined and even jailed.
Democrats and their media allies shamed those who dared to question or protest against the official line that the only way to prevent spreading sickness and death was to partake in economic suicide.
But after the death of George Floyd while he was in police custody in Minneapolis, the narrative flipped, and going out to protest, loot and burn buildings — often without recommended personal protective equipment — suddenly became supposedly virtuous activities.
The media and Democrats praised the protests, which saw tens of thousands of people crammed together and many waiting until after nightfall each day to begin wreaking havoc on American cities.
The continued praise of these riots, protests and large gatherings, of course, came as many Americans were essentially criminalized by political leaders and their communities for wanting to go to church.
McConnell struck specifically at Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer, Washington, D.C., Mayor Muriel Bowser and New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio for playing with the rights of their cities’ citizens.
“The rights of free speech, free assembly, and the free exercise of religion are all First Amendment rights,” McConnell said.
Anonymous @5:55pm said....What on earth makes you think that anyone take you seriously
Same sentiment is applied to liberal politicians and media who allow riots and protests with no concern of virus and now that the riots and protests are subsiding all of a sudden are concerned again because President Trump wants to hold campaign rallies.
Does anyone have time and energy to keep up with, research, and respond to all of your rants? I certainly don’t. Please help those to whom you direct comments by providing references to sources for the many claims you make. You may dismiss the source I cited as a “left wing rag” but, as I have pointed out before, the one example of alternative media you mention is operated by the (to use your terminology) “Abortion worshipping” Glen Reynolds. Curious that.
Just like the pigs in Animal Farm, “Two legs bad; four legs good” becomes “Four legs good; two legs better” in TJM World (synonymous, of course, with Trump World) when it suits your propagandistic purposes. But then I suppose, to adapt Emerson, consistency is “the hobgoblin of little minds” for you. Of course, I would not throw the baby out with the bathwater. Just because someone was in favor of abortion would not lead me to dismiss everything they say, and I am consistent in this. But you always dismiss such people—except, again, when it suits you.
Just like Trump, you seem to be willing to say whatever is expedient for the moment, regardless of principle. And just like Trump, it is impossible to have a rational conversation with someone who operates in this manner.
As for the subject under discussion, show me the science and I will apply it consistently, whatever anyone else may or may not do.
Mitch McConnell articulated the point beautifully. I for one, and most people I know, believed our government leaders when they warned us large gatherings would be dangerous for many, causing widespread illness and even death. Unpleasant as it was, we curtailed our activities and did as they recommended. And yes, there WERE threats by leaders against those who did not comply, and "hectoring," and scolding, and insisted on "fastidiousness." And we complied, giving them the benefit of the doubt. But then, an about face! Suddenly, because of an opportunity to react to an event that could be spun to the Leftists' political advantage, large crowds were okay...and I mean REALLY large crowds. Many days in a row. And not only okay, VIRTUOUS! So once again the Democratic leadership in this country displayed their hypocrisy and the situational ethics they apply to everything. Christians, you can go to hell. Leftist's, come on down!
I don't know, but if this virus was really as dangerous and deadly as they professed before the George Floyd incident occurred, why would they risk the lives of so many by allowing demonstrations? How can we not conclude they already know it's not as dangerous or even as contagious as they portrayed in the media and in their news conferences. And they call Trump a liar! Ha!
I am not sure I agree with everything in the following article (I am still thinking about it) but it is a thoughtful piece that identifies multiple dimensions of the issue by putting it into a broader context, yet still maintaining public health as a unifying theme. This is similar to the way that public health is arguably a unifying theme for the debate about opening up the economy as well (something Wall Street seems to understand, judging from today’s precipitous, record-breaking drop over concerns about a possible second wave):
My wife’s team at our main hospital here counsels the families of Civid-19 patients. I suspect they would beg to differ that the danger from Covid-19 was exaggerated, as would anyone on the front lines who has seen the ravages of the infection close up and personal.
Bee, I usually agree with you, and I hesitate to disagree here. But this issue really is medical rather than theological, so I’ll weigh in. I’m a retired health care professional who has been and is trying to stay on top of the whole COVID situation. I do think we have to be so careful to separate politics from medicine...not that ANY of us do that well, including me. Then, add in the incendiary George Floyd horror and you have a perfect storm for a pandemic to grow. Three weeks ago we really were on the cusp of getting things more under control medically, and economic recovery might have been in our grasp. Not surprisingly at that point, many folks thought the risk had been exaggerated, and masking+social distancing+staying-in-place was overdone. Again, not surprising as the sacrifices and suffering were enormous. At that point I really believed that we were making progress, thanks to all the efforts of good people like yourself who acted appropriately to protect yourselves and others. But then, just as recovery seemed possible, the horrible interplay of the murder of George Floyd and then predictable political and racial outrage responses occurred and statistics now show the pandemic hospitalizations and deaths worsening in many states including mine. The next two weeks will show that irrefutably I think. I hope I’m wrong.
I agree completely that we need to be very careful to separate politics from medicine. But I am concerned that we won’t do this and that the current increase (and possible second spike) in Covid-19 cases will be politicized, with one side blaming everything on premature reopening of the economy and the other side blaming everything on the protests (when in reality it is almost certainly a mix of the two, although I am unsure how the precise contributions of each can be measured). Unless we think clearly, things could become quite ugly, although I hope they don’t.
Yes, Anonymous 2, I understand your point. We do seem unable these days to separate politics from much of anything. I sometimes wonder if we are even any longer capable of doing so in this “enlightened” era. It seems to me: 1) everyone is an expert on everything, and 2) my opinion matters more than yours because my agenda is right and yours is wrong, not to mention my agenda is far more important than yours. We seem incapable of respectful, open-minded dialogue with a goal of solving problems equitably for the good of all. And politics seems to drive that whole train no matter the issue.
21 comments:
Father McDonald, your worries are over, the "Party of Science" has spoken:
New Jersey Governor Phil Murphy indicated Monday that he has no plans to enforce social distancing rules on large groups gathering for anti-racism protests even as non-essential businesses are allowed to reopen only in phases and other large groups are prohibited.
Someone, please explain why you can't have normal attendance at Church but you can have thousands for protesting! Of course, Governor Murphy will reversed himself if President Trump holds a rally. Reasons. LOL
TJM:
Although the protesters are taking a risk of contracting Covid-19 by interacting outside, it appears to be significantly lower than the risk associated with interacting indoors, as, for example, when in church or at the office:
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/05/how-will-we-ever-be-safe-inside/611953/
This said, the science is constantly evolving. Science only deals in probabilities anyway and everything could change tomorrow in the light of new evidence (although some possibilities become so unlikely over time that one can have a considerable degree of confidence in certain scientific “facts” such as the Earth revolving around the Sun). Therefore, as the article counsels, a good dose of humility is appropriate.
"Someone, please explain why you can't have normal attendance at Church but you can have thousands for protesting!"
TJM - Fr. Kavanaugh and others have responded to your comments and questions on earlier threads. You, then, in your typically childish and uncharitable manner, came back at them with rudeness and derision. You make assertions here, and when asked for any supporting argument, you let loose with a tirade that inevitably ends with "abortion."
What on earth makes you think that anyone take you seriously or respond to you now?
All this says is that people who are sick, know they are sick, most times, and they know they are sick with something, but not neccessarily the ChiCom flu.
Given the lack of anti-body tests done nationally and internationally, they are making call based on very little data, and this normally is a near guarantee for eating own words later minus even any salt.
Again, our nation has what appears zero push for widespread testing for live virus and for anti-bodies to see what the truth actually is, and it seems everybody is happy to riot, demand free stuff or they'll take it, and attempt to overthrow a legitimately elected government, and reopen for business as usual to make money, no matter WHAT the virus is actually doing (and which they do not know, see above), and willing for a lot more people to die in between now and when a vaccine developed, either way. They do not even want real PPE in the meantime.
More power to them. Good news, indeed. Non-news is good news.
The reply to TJM was no answer. The risk outdoors is notmally lower than indoors because people outdoors are not normally as packed together as indoors. When they are packed TIGHTER outdoors than indoors, the risks rise proportionally, and then again the more sweat, motion, screaming, and other gyrations.
This is so blatantly obvious it beggars description, but we must not let plain facts, common sense and science get in the way of good political narrative and and a revolution, you know.....we have more important things over which to worry, and if a few thousand abused and marginalized ignorant pawns die in the baking of this revolution, it was for a good cause.
Anonymous 2,
I feel sorry for you. Ideology uber alles. You lost all credibility on that one. Will you be singing the same tune when President Trump’s supporters gather in large numbers (sans the looting and burning)?. No
Anonymous at 5:55,
No Father K has not. Are you his social secretary? If so, please provide his response
My opinion of Father Squealer goes down with near every post....this is a man with biology degree and nominally a man consecrated to service of God and his people and their salvation and safety, supporting the view that packed raucus sweaty verbose protests are less dangerous than attending church with spacing as docile sheep.....note he left a weasle out of "of course, the jury still out and its all on you if you take my advice" at the end, spoken as a pure political functionary....
and willing to endanger gullible readers actual lives in support of a purely political narrative of anti-racism protest and revolution fabricated entire from a hijacked and well publicized incident of police excessive force leading to a needless death of man who was a paragon of virtue and entirely blameless in the events leading up to his arrest and death, at least going by the Father's narrative. I imagine he also runs a Church of Judas on the side, the poor hapless pawn of God.
You should be.....there are too many phrases.....I look forward to hearing your excuses at the final judgement.
TJM:
My responses, unlike yours, have nothing to do with ideology whatsoever. If Trump holds his rallies outdoors, I would say the same thing if the science supports it.
I know that you choose not to read what someone actually writes, or you choose to deliberately misunderstand or misrepresent it. As another comment intimates on this thread, it is impossible to have a rational discussion with a True Believer and Trump Worshiper such as yourself. I am sorry I tried. It is time I learned how pointless it is.
For other contributors to this Blog, who are rational, however: There are many factors determining the level of risk. All I meant to suggest is that those protesting outdoors generally seem to be running a significantly lower level of risk than those engaging in comparable indoor interactions. But, of course, common sense would suggest that protesters packed tightly together without masks, yelling in each other’s faces, and not moving run a higher risk than protesters at protests in which one of more of these factors is lacking. So, presumably, one needs to make distinctions between different types of protest gatherings, judging the risk at each one on its merits, including also the degree of airflow resulting from wind speed.
I also made it clear that a good dose of humility was necessary because the evidence may change and judgments may have to be modified accordingly. Subject to this caveat, here is some more information that seems relevant:
https://www.sfchronicle.com/news/article/Is-risk-of-coronavirus-transmission-lower-15287602.php
Now, Bob, where has anyone supported, "... the view that packed raucus sweaty verbose protests are less dangerous than attending church with spacing as docile sheep...?
I'll tell you the answer to save you the time: Nowhere.
The report is consistent with what we know about how diseases are spread. Displayed symptoms like runny nose, sneezing and coughing aspirate the virus in droplets and contaminate the sick person’s exterior so there is more density in the touch transfers. If one is asymptotic then the virus is relatively contained.
I am less convinced that the rioters will be in less contact with each other than parishioners would be. The demonstrators link arms, hand each other shards of brick, lift up comrades after combating police, etc. it might be interesting to see if tear or CN gasses have any impact on controlling the virus.
Anonymous 2,
No, ideology is your guidepost. There is already evidence being reported that the packed protest rallies may be spreading the coronavirus again, but you don't care. I know Dr. Fauci has expressed his concern about it. Where was science which allowed hundreds of people into Walmart, but closed Churches altogether? Particularly when most people spend FAR less time in Church than they do Walmart on a weekly basis.
The media praising the protests and looting is already pivoting back to say crowds are bad where Trump rallies are concerned. Instead of reading biased, left-wing rags like the San Francisco Chronicle, or the New York Times (which sets breathtaking records for lying), and the Washington Post, take a gander at the alternate media which does a far better and fairer job of reporting the news. For example, Instapundit, a news aggregation website run by Professor Glen Reynolds of the University of Tennessee law school is a good place to start.
You are lucky you are not a professor at fake University UCLA where you can be a respected accounting professor for 39 years but be suspended and investigated for discrimination because you would not exempt black students from their final exam due to Mr. George Floyd, but I imagine you are fine with that, or if you aren't, you would NEVER dare state so publicly in the faculty lounge.
I really feel sorry for you, I really do.
Although not ordinarily a Mitch McConnell fan, his words on the senate floor should be read by all clergy, media, politicians and academics:
In remarks from the Senate floor Tuesday, Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell pointed out the Democrats’ double standard when it comes to public gatherings amid the coronavirus pandemic.
The Kentucky Republican took Democrats to task for their duplicity in banning religious gatherings and forcing citizens to remain locked away indoors while politicians support and even participate in mass gatherings in response to the death of George Floyd.
McConnell stated he has “no criticism” for the peaceful demonstrators exercising their right to speak freely. What is “baffling,” he explained, is the inconsistency of leaders who have spent months hectoring Christians and other law-abiding Americans for attempting to gather to exercise other aspects of their First Amendment rights, including their right to religious liberty.
McConnell excoriated Democratic leaders and the media for forcing citizens to put their lives “totally on ice,” and questioned the dangerous precedent set by Democrats when it comes to their selective enforcement of the First Amendment.
To the Democrats who have taken it upon themselves to tell citizens how to behave, when to work and where to congregate, the Senate GOP leader proclaimed, “our national life during this pandemic has slid toward a double standard.”
“Many Americans feel they’ve just seen those fastidious regulations and that puritanical zeal disappear in an instant because a new cause has emerged that powerful people agree with,” McConnell said.
“A month ago, small protest demonstrations were widely condemned as reckless and selfish. Now, massive rallies that fill entire cities are not just praised, but in fact, are called especially brave because of the exact same health risks that brought condemnation when the cause was different,” he continued.
Indeed, mere weeks ago, some Americans who demanded their lives back saw their Constitutional rights violated, and were threatened, fined and even jailed.
Democrats and their media allies shamed those who dared to question or protest against the official line that the only way to prevent spreading sickness and death was to partake in economic suicide.
But after the death of George Floyd while he was in police custody in Minneapolis, the narrative flipped, and going out to protest, loot and burn buildings — often without recommended personal protective equipment — suddenly became supposedly virtuous activities.
The media and Democrats praised the protests, which saw tens of thousands of people crammed together and many waiting until after nightfall each day to begin wreaking havoc on American cities.
The continued praise of these riots, protests and large gatherings, of course, came as many Americans were essentially criminalized by political leaders and their communities for wanting to go to church.
McConnell struck specifically at Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer, Washington, D.C., Mayor Muriel Bowser and New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio for playing with the rights of their cities’ citizens.
“The rights of free speech, free assembly, and the free exercise of religion are all First Amendment rights,” McConnell said.
Anonymous @5:55pm said....What on earth makes you think that anyone take you seriously
Same sentiment is applied to liberal politicians and media who allow riots and protests with no concern of virus and now that the riots and protests are subsiding all of a sudden are concerned again because President Trump wants to hold campaign rallies.
TJM:
Does anyone have time and energy to keep up with, research, and respond to all of your rants? I certainly don’t. Please help those to whom you direct comments by providing references to sources for the many claims you make. You may dismiss the source I cited as a “left wing rag” but, as I have pointed out before, the one example of alternative media you mention is operated by the (to use your terminology) “Abortion worshipping” Glen Reynolds. Curious that.
Just like the pigs in Animal Farm, “Two legs bad; four legs good” becomes “Four legs good; two legs better” in TJM World (synonymous, of course, with Trump World) when it suits your propagandistic purposes. But then I suppose, to adapt Emerson, consistency is “the hobgoblin of little minds” for you. Of course, I would not throw the baby out with the bathwater. Just because someone was in favor of abortion would not lead me to dismiss everything they say, and I am consistent in this. But you always dismiss such people—except, again, when it suits you.
Just like Trump, you seem to be willing to say whatever is expedient for the moment, regardless of principle. And just like Trump, it is impossible to have a rational conversation with someone who operates in this manner.
As for the subject under discussion, show me the science and I will apply it consistently, whatever anyone else may or may not do.
Bee here:
Mitch McConnell articulated the point beautifully. I for one, and most people I know, believed our government leaders when they warned us large gatherings would be dangerous for many, causing widespread illness and even death. Unpleasant as it was, we curtailed our activities and did as they recommended. And yes, there WERE threats by leaders against those who did not comply, and "hectoring," and scolding, and insisted on "fastidiousness." And we complied, giving them the benefit of the doubt. But then, an about face! Suddenly, because of an opportunity to react to an event that could be spun to the Leftists' political advantage, large crowds were okay...and I mean REALLY large crowds. Many days in a row. And not only okay, VIRTUOUS! So once again the Democratic leadership in this country displayed their hypocrisy and the situational ethics they apply to everything. Christians, you can go to hell. Leftist's, come on down!
I don't know, but if this virus was really as dangerous and deadly as they professed before the George Floyd incident occurred, why would they risk the lives of so many by allowing demonstrations? How can we not conclude they already know it's not as dangerous or even as contagious as they portrayed in the media and in their news conferences. And they call Trump a liar! Ha!
God bless.
Bee
Bee:
I am not sure I agree with everything in the following article (I am still thinking about it) but it is a thoughtful piece that identifies multiple dimensions of the issue by putting it into a broader context, yet still maintaining public health as a unifying theme. This is similar to the way that public health is arguably a unifying theme for the debate about opening up the economy as well (something Wall Street seems to understand, judging from today’s precipitous, record-breaking drop over concerns about a possible second wave):
https://www.mercurynews.com/2020/06/09/coronavirus-whats-the-risk-for-george-floyd-protesters/
My wife’s team at our main hospital here counsels the families of Civid-19 patients. I suspect they would beg to differ that the danger from Covid-19 was exaggerated, as would anyone on the front lines who has seen the ravages of the infection close up and personal.
Bee, I usually agree with you, and I hesitate to disagree here. But this issue really is medical rather than theological, so I’ll weigh in.
I’m a retired health care professional who has been and is trying to stay on top of the whole COVID situation. I do think we have to be so careful to separate politics from medicine...not that ANY of us do that well, including me. Then, add in the incendiary George Floyd horror and you have a perfect storm for a pandemic to grow. Three weeks ago we really were on the cusp of getting things more under control medically, and economic recovery might have been in our grasp. Not surprisingly at that point, many folks thought the risk had been exaggerated, and masking+social distancing+staying-in-place was overdone. Again, not surprising as the sacrifices and suffering were enormous. At that point I really believed that we were making progress, thanks to all the efforts of good people like yourself who acted appropriately to protect yourselves and others.
But then, just as recovery seemed possible, the horrible interplay of the murder of George Floyd and then predictable political and racial outrage responses occurred and statistics now show the pandemic hospitalizations and deaths worsening in many states including mine. The next two weeks will show that irrefutably I think. I hope I’m wrong.
Bee, sorry I forgot to sign that last comment.
Anon12
Anon 12:
I agree completely that we need to be very careful to separate politics from medicine. But I am concerned that we won’t do this and that the current increase (and possible second spike) in Covid-19 cases will be politicized, with one side blaming everything on premature reopening of the economy and the other side blaming everything on the protests (when in reality it is almost certainly a mix of the two, although I am unsure how the precise contributions of each can be measured). Unless we think clearly, things could become quite ugly, although I hope they don’t.
Yes, Anonymous 2, I understand your point. We do seem unable these days to separate politics from much of anything. I sometimes wonder if we are even any longer capable of doing so in this “enlightened” era.
It seems to me: 1) everyone is an expert on everything, and 2) my opinion matters more than yours because my agenda is right and yours is wrong, not to mention my agenda is far more important than yours. We seem incapable of respectful, open-minded dialogue with a goal of solving problems equitably for the good of all. And politics seems to drive that whole train no matter the issue.
End of rant,
Anon12
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