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Thursday, June 11, 2020

POOR PRAYTELL, ALL THEIR PROGRESSIVE IDEAS ABOUT THE LITURGY HAVE COLLASPED AND I DOUBT THOSE WILL RETURN ANY TIME SOON



Here are PRAYTELL's Johnny come lately predictions about the future. My comment in red embedded in the text:


Prediction #1: People will hesitate to receive the Eucharistic chalice.
Communion under both species—modestly re-introduced by the Second Vatican Council, afterwards permitted in more and more cases, often requested, explained and backed up by liturgical scholars—has not yet become a common practice in Roman Catholic liturgies. Many people never got used to it, felt unable to cope with it whenever the chalice was offered to them, and some always found it disturbing to drink from a chalice that had been touched by other people’s lips before. I am quite sure that the number of people who hesitate to drink from the Eucharistic chalice will increase. No explanation of the alcohol’s disinfectant virtue will change their minds (because the alcohol diluted by saliva isn't strong enough to be a disinfectant)—the hesitation does not originate in scientific arguments, but in expectations of cleanliness and hygienics. (As long has I have a say in it, the common chalice will not be used in my parish.)

Prediction #2: New ways of sharing the Eucharistic chalice will be tried out.
Some ministers will try to introduce new ways to share the Eucharistic chalice in a more hygienic way. I saw small individual glasses in Lutheran and Latter-day Saints’ liturgies. Some colleagues mock them due to their resemblance to shot glasses, but they are a simple option to share a beverage among a large group of people. Of course the symbolism of sharing one chalice is lost, but second-best options are better than no options (and we do the same with Eucharistic hosts which do not at all remind one of one shared bread). (I doubt small plastic or glass mini cups like Protestants will be used, but Communion under both forms by intinction will take place, not just for the laity, but concelebrants as it done at my cathedral-basilica.)

Prediction #3: Liturgical gloves will revive.
Some ministers will prefer to use gloves for certain liturgical acts. Not the old ritual gloves that bishops used, but sanitary gloves. Some priests will use them in order to prevent to infect others or be infected, e.g. for the Anointing or for the Communion on the tongue. (I see plastic gloves dying out but the formal Episcopal gloves making a come-back with some not all.)

Prediction #4: People will hesitate to stand or sit close to each other.
After all we heard about exhalation, aerosols, and droplet infection, the number of people who prefer to stand or sit in big distances to others—especially strangers— will increase. Maybe people here in Austria will hesitate to use the old baroque pews where they are squeezed in without any chance of movement. They will request single seats instead, a sort of choir stalls, or at least modern pews that leave more space to everyone. (Yes for a while but the handshake of peace or the kiss of peace is dead and should be permanently buried). 

Prediction #5: Certain objects will be regularly disinfected.
Sacristans will have more work than before: Objects that people touch or kiss will be disinfected on a regular basis: Liturgical vessels, baptismal fonts, icons, doorknobs, Gospel books, lectionaries, hymnals, etc. New patterns of cleanliness and hygienics will be established all over public places.

Prediction #6: Public law will enforce new hygienic rules.
Depending on the situation in different countries with their respective legislation, I can imagine that future public law will prohibit certain religious practices, e.g.: drinking from one chalice, open Holy Water fonts, Anointing without gloves, etc. Public law might make my predictions #1—5 true even without anyone’s personal request. (In this country, secular laws that infringe on the Church would be challenged in court, but other countries might acquiesce.)

11 comments:

Mark Thomas said...

Suppose a vaccine is developed for Covid-19? If we are immune to the virus, what would prevent the restoration of germ-spreading, Novus Ordo liturgical practices?

Pax.

Mark Thomas

Anonymous said...

Mark, a note of caution here. You are not alone in your assumptions, but the truth is:
The Flu vaccine which we know is produced every year specific to the year’s probable strain of influenza is never 100% effective despite all the years of expert scientific input. According to a Feb. 21 CDC Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report,(www.cdc.gov) the current influenza vaccine has been 45% effective overall against 2019-2020 seasonal influenza A and B viruses.
We cannot simply assume that a COVID19 vaccine will show any different results, even if produced sooner than expected.

Anon12

TJM said...

The photo of Mass in the round is sad on so many levels, but I note, the paucity of young families and children. Praytell should be pretty worried if that is the subject audience they are trying to reach.I note, that even with Mass in the round some people are " seeing the priest's back." Horrors!

Detective Kodak said...

The parish pictured is St. Vincent de Paul, Albany New York.

A quick trip to their parish website leads one to hundreds of photographs of a great variety of liturgical and social functions.

Included is their 2019 Confirmation. There were FIFTH-TWO young people confirmed.

Also included are dozens and dozens of pictures with dozens and dozens of young families with babies, toddlers, small children, and teens.

PrayTell has no reason to worry. The only worried person is TJM who thinks a single picture captures the full story of a parish.

Detective Kodak said...

FIFTH = FIFTY

TJM said...

Detective K (kavanaugh),

LOL - 52 is not a lot of children to be confirmed. My class was well over a 100 and we were not a large parish. The very first photo on the St. Vincent de Paul website shows a vast majority of the congregation is OLD. I did not notice a parish grade school.
Sorry, Kojak, Praytell should be worried

ps: you are really wracking up the nom de plumes

Detective Kodak said...

52 is a large number for many parishes. This is not 1880, so, yes, it will not be the same as your parish confirmation. That you expect it to be the same reveals your shortsightedness.

"The very first" photo on the parish website is one of hundreds which you choose to ignore.

The pictures on the parish website, which you will never see, show dozens and dozens of young families with children. Acknowledging that would collapse your argument, so I do not expect you to do so.

"ps: you are really wracking up the nom de plumes."

First, it's racking, not wracking. Second, it's noms de plume, not nom de plumes.

TJM said...

Detective Kavanaugh,

Yes it's not 1880 when there were far more Church going, faithful Catholics. Thanks for reminding us the numbers of Church goers have plummeted since that Glorious Vatican Disaster II.

If I were trying to put my best foot forward, I would not use the first photo. The first photo shows an aging typical OF parish, notwithstanding a few kiddies sprinkled in.

With you, it's wracking. That's my truth.

Vous-parlez Francais? Nice to know clericalism on steroids has some redeeming qualities.

Here is one last thought for you, an aging boomer:

That sound you just heard was millions of liberal brains blowing a circuit breaker. Trayvon Martin is a secular saint, and you can’t question anything his family says or you’re a racist. And… his mom doesn’t want to #DefundThePolice.

Have fun soothing your cognitive dissonance, libs!

Here’s wishing Sybrina Fulton good luck in her political career. She suffered a terrible loss, but she hasn’t let it warp her view of the world to the point where she advocates chaos and anarchy. Right now, that’s refreshingly bold.

Detective Kodak said...

TJM - You saw ONE picture - ONE - and you concluded WRONGLY that St. Vincent de Paul Parish in Albany, NY, is a parish of only elderly folk.

You asserted that this parish is only elderly folks because the younger folk - young families and children you said - don't like the ordinary form, that the ordinary form drives them away.

The parish pix prove beyond any doubt that you are WRONG.

Having bee proven WRONG to decide to bring up Trayvon Martin, racism, defunding the police, Sybrina Fulton, chaos, and anarchy.

All of this is done in your vain attempt to distract from the fact - the proven fact - that you were and are WRONG.

Keep squirming if you like. You will remain WRONG.

TJM said...

Detective Kavanaugh,

You are wrong almost always and silly. You are a very poor example for a priest. You would be better off emulating Fathers McDonald or Fox. I did look at more than one picture. The fact remains it is mainly an older crowd attending Mass there. I believe my lying eyes, rather than your words.

I knew I could set your hair on fire with the Trayvon Martin reference. According to the "logic" of Maureen Dowd, his mother has "absolute moral authority" in these matters, so your opinion doesn't count.

Detective Kodak said...

TJM - If you looked at more than one picture - I doubt you did - then you would see that St. Vincent de Paul parish, Albany, NY, is not experiencing a "...paucity of young families and children."

Your words.

The pictures clearly show to anyone who cares about reality that there are many, many young families and children.

You raised Trayvon Martin and other topics in an attempt to divert attention for your baseless claim that the parish was bereft of young families and children.

Vibrant OF parishes have no worried, nor do the good people at PrayTell.

You should be worried about your dishonesty and your refusal to acknowledge when you have been proven to be wrong.