You can read ABC’s news report on how Harrison Butker committed mortal sins against pride and women by pressing their title:
Kansas City Chiefs player faces backlash for graduation speech criticizing working women, calling Pride a 'deadly sin'
Many in and outside of the Church have applauded the words of Harrison Butker at Benedictine College, where he received a robust standing ovation for his speech, but the world, the flesh and the devil as expressed by the heterodox and the politically liberal are outraged at the orthodox Catholic teaching expressed by Mr. Butker. The NFL has distanced itself from Butker and I would not be surprised if pressure is placed upon the Kansas City Chiefs to fire him.
Heterodox Catholics are outraged at Butker’s remarks.
He must be on the right path? Is he a prophet who will be persecuted for plainly saying what the Church actually teaches and encourages? You betcha!
There has always been anti Catholicism in the USA, but it came from Protestants sects. Today it is a political animus coupled with leftist ideologies and a virulent authoritarianism. It will lead to orthodox Catholics being persecuted like we were under communism.
Old Testament prophets as well as Jesus never pandered to the world, the flesh and the devil. They always paid the price and most prophets fought the call of God to be a prophet because they knew what was in store for them from the world, the flesh and the devil.
I suspect Buckner knows too.
The truth inflames the world, the flesh and the devil. It has always been so and Jesus experienced it to the fullness. Mr. Buckner is experiencing it now. Kind of reminds me of “The Prisoner” movie I posted in another thread.
54 comments:
I'm glad Mr. Butker is committed to his faith. However, I must say that I wish he was far, far better informed about Catholicism than this address indicates.
As for "degenerate cultural values," I would encourage Harrison to re-examine his chosen profession and the effects it has across the board on our society. Being paid more than $4 million a year to play a game of kick-ball is pretty corrosive...
Excellent FRMJK, and that goes for clergy and laity who support the Democrat party and its amoral, immoral and genocidal tendencies. And let’s talk about the money all political parties raise to promote their trash.
Fr ALLAN McDonald - Yes, LET'S talk about support for political parties. We know our resident Trump cultists luuuuuuv The Donald because he is an amoral, vulgar, rapacious, religious poseur who they all want to emulate.
That would be a good discussion.
Father K can always be counted upon to draw false equivalencies. So many crimes are inspired by football? Murders? Drug use? Abortions? We all should have been biology teachers?
So, a gladiator criticising the declining empire is lame in his book.
And a bitter, jaded liberal burn-out priest in same empire is what?
Oh, and Father K, Mr. Butker seemed very well informed as to cafeteria catholics, and was speaking out against them. Perhaps that is why you are so sore and cynical. Mr. Butker being so honorable AND successful in HIS vocation, while being a better witness to the Truth than many priests is bound to rub some priests the wrong way.
FRMJK, of course Trump isn’t Catholic. But Butker’s address can help us here. He says that we have more to fear from Catholics, be they clergy or laity, who promote ideologies opposed to the Splendor of Truth. Thus President Biden making the Sign of the Cross at an abortion rally, promoting sexual ideologies opposed to the Church, either in word or deed, as Trump does, should be castigated more rigorously than non-Catholics who promote such grave offenses against God, His Church and humanity.
For clergy to make known they support one or another of political parties with ideologies anathema to the Church is more serious, in my most humble opinion, than individual Catholics who might support this, that or the other opposed to Christ, although that is very serious too.
The LORD sends his champions in every age. And this one's a kicker!
Indeed William and he’s doing what Vatican II encouraged the laity to do as laity, spread the true faith through the new/old evangelization.
Personally, I think he was very brave. He may have got some emphases wrong but generally a good testimony. Like many who write on here, Father, I would not now like to be judged by what I said as his age. But I would certainly like the enthusiasm and devotion.
Yes, indeed Fr. Evans. He might have been more nuanced, less controversial in how he presented his views, more understanding, but if he did that, his listeners would quickly have tuned him out. You know that we priests are castigated for the length of our homilies. While they might be too long, the bigger problem is that they are boring. Thus after 4 minutes, the laity tune out boring homilies. Butker's address was 20 minutes. I think his style of rhetoric and brash use of controversial examples kept his young and old listeners clued to what he was saying for the entire 20 minutes. There was not attention deficit disorder in the young and old before him. Then after that 20 minute elocution he received a standing ovation. Would his talk have been better if only 4 minutes? Yes, if it was boring, but it was boring and 20 minutes was perfect and it was effective!
should have written "glued" to his talk and in my last sentence... It was NOT boring.
Homilies are often long and boring due to all the equivocating explanation parsing lest someone in the crowd be offended and call the local chancery office.
Mr. Butker instead spent 20mins calling a spade a spade. Nothing politically correct, and so, shocking in this modern age of PC equivocation. The NFL condemning it is no suprise, they are famous for making wrong decisions based on political correctness, including allowing players to disrespect our own national symbol.
Bob - I stated no false equivalence. Again, your reading comprehension needs work.
Much of what he stated is his personal opinion regarding social structures and much of that is unrelated to Catholic doctrine. He's an anti-vaxxer. He thinks we had a COVID fiasco when, in fact, we had a COVID tragedy. He thinks men set the tone of culture and sees no role in that for women, revealing a significant lack of historical perspective. Like too many traditionalists, he's a neo-gnostic, believing that he and those who share his preferences know what "real" Catholic worship is and the rest of us are just dummies.
Maybe he should follow his own advice and stay in his lane. He's a 28 year old multi-millionaire who rakes in the dough playing a game of kick-ball. Isn't that special?
Sports are entertaining games. But their place in culture has, because they are big-time money-makers, been exaggerated almost beyond comprehension. That's where the corrupting influence comes in. Many American universities have given in to the seduction. (https://www.forbes.com/sites/stevensalzberg/2011/11/26/football-is-corrupting-americas-universities-it-needs-to-go/?sh=7874675d3923)
You can check the stats for crimes by professional sports figures easily. They range from sexual assault to wire fraud to drug trafficking to murder. You can defend the immense tax breaks given to billionaire team owners to build stadiums till the cows come home. It'es immoral and corrupting.
Father K, I read your post, and false equivalence is what I said and meant. You compared his sport with what he denigrates in its detrimental effect on society.
And again come back now with mention of "stats" switching from society to now individual sports player (while I still await your stats on football's detrimental effect on society over any other entertainment type) , where considering many of their backgrounds (and where you studiously ignore race in those "stats"), you will find no greater incidence of criminal behavior or being criminal role models among them by race as any other profession.
Mr. Butker's "gnosis" is based on 2000yrs of teachings, and not much secret about it today, while it is you and your ilk who claim to know better than all what, and who, came before.
You bash a gladiator for saying Rome is rotten... while he showed more courage from a podium in 20mins that you have showed from a lifetime at an ambo.
Your gripe and your religion, as always, is political, as has been your priesthood. If you'd spent half the effort leading people to God as you have on political issues, you'd have left behind a chain of growing parishes filled with saints rather than a chain of dying parishes largely and sparsely visited by a dying off old cadre of social club Catholics.
American universities do not have the sole corruption of overemphasis on athletics. They also have, by and large, become unstintingly partisan and ideological, usually in the favor of--well, I'll stop there.
Nick
Father K, no covid fiasco here...we just had tremendous corporate and political overreach forcing personal health choices, a vaccine that didn't work and covid numbers which rose rather than declined at EVERY vaccine deployment, and a vaccine which had historically high numbers for injury and death of any vaccine put to widespread use, while careers were ruined for not taking it....no, no covid fiasco here...and still you use anti-vaxxer as an insult...you likely insult lemmings for being non-jumpers.
Just for the record, I am no fan of pro sports, nor its ties to gambling (even though people gamble on anything including what pope chosen), nor sweetheart deals between team owners and local politicians...but those have nothing to do with the sports or their players or the example they set....
Father K. just was mad at the player for publically promoting traditional and orthodox views on family and religion, and that is anathema to him, so he attacked not only him, but everything associated with him, smearing by association/false equivalency. I should maybe smear Father K. for being associated with a vocation known for horrid crimes against children, by his modus operandi.
Fun fact: Governor Cuomo takes ivermectin regularly now. I'm sure the FDA is going to tell him to stop eating horse paste.
Another fun fact: the FDA has since quietly deleted their juvenile "horse paste" tweets. Go figure.
A third fun fact: now that public figures are trying to deny ever "forcing" someone to take a vaccine ("we didn't force anyone, we just threatened your jobs, your children, your families, and your churches if you refused"), it's pretty obvious that the narrative has shifted.
Nick
Nick, yes, indeed the narrative has shifted. Birx just admitted the other day to thousands of vaccine injuries, where you know she is low-balling.
I dodged, and still dodge, covid by following standard sanitation/hygiene rules and no vaccine/no mask...same rules OSHA and the military had but threw out the window under political pressure. Numbers did not start zooming up until the vaccines came out and folk stopped with all the basic hygiene. Basic stuff like keep hands off face umtil hands cleaned, clean items before taking in house, clean things touched with contaminated hands, and don't eat anything not prepared and served using those basic principals... basic hygiene.
In a town whose total covid numbers now double total population, I did not catch it, simply by following basic rules they formerly taught children in school.
You also are spot on regarding universities, where Father K stays mum on left wing dollars and protestors disrupting students lives, academics, and graduations. As for sports and colleges, colleges are addicted to the milk from the media cash cow in order to fund much of their academics. I don't like it, but that is a fact.
Non - I did not make a comparison. I quoted him regarding "degenerate cultural values," and I suggested that he consider the negative impacts that his chosen profession has on society.
That is not a comparison. Both have negative impacts.
Butker's gnosticism is based on his simplistic understanding of 2,000 years of Church teaching, not on the teaching itself.
Inasmuch as you have not once been present when I was at the ambo, your comment about my preaching is as worthless as a tit on a beaufrog.
Vaccines, including the COVID vaccine, save lives. You claim, without citing any evidence, that use of the vaccine, "had historically high numbers for injury and death."
Evidence that it did not:
“Evidence Shows That COVID-19 Vaccines Don’t Increase the Risk of Death, Contrary to Claim by Financier Edward Dowd.” Health Feedback. 11 Jan 2023."
“COVID-19 Vaccines Did Not Cause Excess Deaths among Millennials.” AP News. 26 Mar 2022."
Among many others.
Oh good, we have another rendition of the "lay people are so unsophisticated" trope. Maybe it's a Napoleon complex kind of thing, from getting the sort of education that the average seminary was churning out in the 1970s.
Nick
Father K, you are arguing from wonderful sources there. I suggest you take up the injury claims with Birx amd all the valid research you ignore, such as as the assorted European ministries of health.
Hard for a vaccine to save lives when multiple doses do not prevent infection, while I WILL admit it seemed to mitigate seriousness of the infection and masked it, all the while the vaccinated and infected went to work and spread it more than they were doing prior to vaccination, leading to an explosion of cases which killed more people.
That there is conflicting evidence you ignore, the pro evidence largely the product of vested interests fearing financial repercussions via massive law suits, both big pharma and government. And their relative silence now on vaccination pushes despite continuing surges and ever more deaths puts your arguments in the dumpster more than I ever could.
How many people did you lead to God while parading for Black Lives Matter, or while burning down a smoke before hurrying to the reconciliation room? You can think I never heard you all you want, but you'd be wrong there, too.
As for your comments about the player, you once again show your arrogance and gnostic sensibilities, he just couldn't have a better and more orthodox understanding than your liberal enlightened self, because people who differ from you are just not as knowledgeable as you. All those here who disagree with you are the same way. The entire world that disagrees is the same way.
Bob, if you were expecting vaccines to prevent infection, then it was your expectation that was off. ALL vaccines have a failure rate. ALL of them. And if you were expecting ZERO ad else reactions, including death, then your expectation, not the vaccine was the problem. ALL vaccines produce adverse effects, including in rare cases, death.
Post links to the research evidence - not to reports of the evidence- and I'll read it.
When and where did you hear me preach?
For Father K, a few facts...the European Medicines Agency database as of 2022 reported 47,000 deaths and over 6 million injuries from the covid vaccine.
As of 2021 the UK Yellow Card system reported 1.2 million injuries and as of 2023 the UK bill for injury compensation had topped £12 million...
Our government right out of the starting gate capped compensation at $50,000, not the type figure that shows they believed adverse effect numbers would be insignificant for lost lives and livelihoods, and which last I heard they were stonewalling and had yet to pay a dime.
Sure, trust the CDC, who promised robust and long lasting protection, and now zero push for even booster of a booster of booster of a booster.
Think burning down last smokes before going to work under the carport at rectory under the carport and reeking of cigarettes in the reconciliation room, and then tell me you did not love social justice issues.
Father K, you should absolutely stay in your lane and refrain from pontificating about your knowledge about Covid and vaccines. By your comments, you are truly clueless. The young football player is correct in calling the Covid era a fiasco.
Your deriding comments about the young man are proof of your disdain and probably hate for conservative Catholics, but what else would we expect from the elitist Catholic left?
There was evidence at the start that Covid was a created bioweapon, likely financed in large part by our own government. This is being covered right now in congressional hearings. There was a scientific coverup, censoring of alternative views(Supreme Court case coming up), and canceling of many world renowned scientists, many of whom lost their jobs, even while tenured.
None of the mitigation efforts had any basis in science or precedent. Not a single one. Lockdowns, community masking, school closure, selective business closures, contact tracing, quarantining the healthy, social distancing, the six foot rule - all are total BS. Not one of these measures were part of any pre-pandemic preparedness plan. Neither were closing playgrounds and filling them with truckloads of sand.
Bringing a non lytic, non-destructive vaccine online against a highly mutable mRNA virus goes against basic tenets of evolutionary biology. The Covid vaccines did not result in significant production of antibodies in the respiratory pathways, where the infection starts. The vaccines were not Covid-destructive, like measles, mumps, pneumovax, chicken pox, etc. vaccines are. That’s why these vaccines are so effective. These shut down the infection and lead to herd immunity.
But the stooge Fauci kept talking about Covid herd immunity, but as soon as we knew that the vaccines did not halt infection or spread by early 2021, there was no chance of herd immunity. A predictable side effect of the Covid vaccines is such a setting was to promote rapid mutation, which certainly happened. But the CDC figureheads and Fauci stared into the cameras and said that the vaccine would stop transmission, over and over.
What we saw, however, was Covid in folks with multiple vaccinations and boosters, even multiple cases in the same individual. Some vaccine there.
Data is coming out rapidly about the frequency of adverse events and deaths. Information is more available in the EU, Australia, New Zealand, and Canada. But the US is hiding data. The CDC and FDA were fine with Pfizer’s request to hide trial data for 75 yers, but data is dribbling out.
Are you aware of the massively incestuous financial relationships between the drug companies and the various departments of health, both in the US and abroad? Also, I was one of the several thousand folks who saw a chart with accompanying data put up on the Ontario Dept Health website which reported a massive spike of deaths in the 2-4 weeks post vaccination. Want to guess how long this stayed up? Any questions for information received a no comment.
So you say, Father K, that the vaccines are effective. That claim is refuted by the statistical data crimes that have become evident. Multiple biases have been introduced into the statistical analyses of studies purporting to show vaccine efficacy. It is all a charade.
Here are but two studies that show this.
https://wherearethenumbers.substack.com/p/vaccine-efficacy-cheap-trick-by-exclusion
https://www.drvinayprasad.com/p/observational-studies-of-covid-vaccine
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36967517/
Let’s get back to reflecting on the practice of our Catholic Faith and the diversity there now exists in that regard, since Vatican II, btw. In pre-Vatican II times, there were usually two categories and individuals would subscribe to one or the other. They were eithe good, practicing Catholic, albeit, sinners, or they were bad Catholics, but Catholics nonetheless. Today, there conservative, liberal, orthodox, heterodox, traditional, progressive and many more labels. It’s more complex than just good or bad Catholics. I see nothing heretical in what Butker said about his Catholic Faith and how to practice it. I found it critique or judgement about bishops and priests to be somewhat true for some of us, we’re a mixed bag. Maybe he could have said the same thing in a positive way by pointing out bishops and priests who have done what he sees as the ideal without reference to those who don’t. The same about family life and the place of women in the Church and society. But what he said about spouses, differentiation of role based on gender the role of husband and wives in the Sacrament of marriage is what the Church has taught without question until Vatican II. Often, political ideologies, since Vatican II, and social more changes and fads, now dictate the manner in which Catholics practice the Faith relying more on celebrities, the media, politics and political ideologies to form their outlook on life.
Father McDonald, it's your baby, and no argument with your comment. Only, we have enough of the PC pussy footing which has gotten us nowhere but kicked to the curb, and likely would have less pussy footing out of priests (and bishops) were they as secure as Mr. Butker, who was able to speak bluntly (same as me) without fear of taking any substantial hit, and risking only not being liked by people who would not like him anyhow, as soon as they knew his views.
But the hierarchy is allergic to any fracturing, and would much rather be in union with heretics than give them the boot, fearing the word "schism", while erroneously thinking those with heretical beliefs would even bother forming new parishes or a new church....the only ones of the heretical class who would even do that are the heretical religious suddenly seeing their free ride coming to an end and desperate to find suckers enough to support them. Just let'em go.
After THIS ruthless papacy, we should still play nice?
As an article on the Butker dust-up put it, Catholic bishops have ghetto-itis. That is, they want so badly to get out of the ghetto and be allowed a "seat at the table" in American society and culture. The problem is having to give up a lot of uniquely Catholic beliefs and practices to get there, and giving up those practices meant they showed they didn't take Catholicism seriously and American society accordingly doesn't take them seriously. Instead of a seat at the table, Catholics are now to beg for scraps of acceptability from the table--arguably a worse position than the Catholic "ghetto."
Bob, to your point on unity, the geriatric Sisters of St. Scholastica put out a statement (that misrepresented Butker's words, no less) saying that Butker was attacking "unity." The obvious question is, unity with whom? Unity with anti-Catholic, anti-family, pro-"feminist" secularists, or unity with God.
Nick
Nick, in further unity building, Francis has done a lengthy interview with ever so even-handed 60 Minutes, and spends a great deal of time insulting American Catholics and conservatives.
Yes, the US Church filled with glee at the election of Kennedy who disavowed Rome telling him what to do, so that he could be elected, and bishops jumped on the disavowal band wagon to lead us out of second class citizenship followed quite joyfully by flocks crossing the red tape sea.
All so that people would LIKE us....which, had the early Roman Church followed that lead, just offered that harmless pinch of incense so that people would LIKE us, would have left it as just another of the hundreds or thousands of now forgotten cults which filled ancient Rome.
Meanwhile, checking the KC Chiefs official merchandise store, #1 best selling item in entire store is the #7 Butker jersey.
Father Kavanaugh said..."As for "degenerate cultural values," I would encourage Harrison to re-examine his chosen profession and the effects it has across the board on our society."
(It has been about seven years since I have watched television, let alone a full NFL game. I have long been conflicted in regard to the NFL. I admit that during the past seven years, that via Youtube, I have peeked at highlights of New York Giants games.)
I believe that Father Kavanaugh offered a solid point in question. Also, in fairness to Father Kavanaugh, Mister Butker broached the subject in regard to society's moral disintegration.
I believe that Mister Butker earns his living via an unseemly business. But I do not come close to judging his soul.
Bob noted that professional athletes are not responsible for certain unseemly aspects that apply to professional sports. I agree with that.
But back to Mister Butker and the NFL: There are several ways in which I believe that the NFL/NFL players have impacted society in negative fashion.
-- Many NFL players have fathered players out of wedlock. From the Christian Post: "The NFL has a problem with illegitimate children and they're pretending it doesn't exist."
The above issue may not apply to Mr. Butker. But his business — the NFL — has been tainted via the above.
-- NFL games to not leaven society via the example of solid personal conduct. During a given play, one should expect players to act in arrogant "in your face" fashion.
Players "trash talk"...taunt opponents...call attention to themselves via wild celebrations following tackles, or scoring touchdowns. None of that uplifts society.
-- It is not uncommon to find NFL players engaged in unseemly off-field behavior.
The list could go on. There are NFL players who uplift society. Good and bad exists everywhere. But in regard to Mr. Butker, I believe that Father Kavanaugh has a solid point.
Mister Butker would do well to consider the unseemly manner in which his business has impacted society.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
Pig - No, I do not hate conservative Catholics, or anyone else for that matter.
Yes, I do hold in disdain those - progressive, conservative, middle of the road - who present their own personal socio-political preferences and opinions and Catholic teaching. That is what Mr. Butker has done.
In his personal opinion, Catholic bishops who do not share his views on COVID policies are bad bishops. Not just bad people, bad bishops who mislead their flocks. If they were truly good Catholic bishops, they would have acted as he wanted. That is his opinion/preference. It is not Church teaching.
In his personal opinion, some priests should not become "overly familiar" with members of their parishes because, as a teammate's girlfriend says, "familiarity breeds contempt. This is his opinion/preference. It is not Church teaching.
In his personal opinion, bishops showed that "sacraments don't actually matter" during the pandemic. That is his opinion/preference. It is not Church teaching.
In his opinion, men "set the tone of culture." In his opinion, the Anti-Semitism Act could be used to put a person in jail for, "...stating something as basic as the biblical teaching of who killed Jesus could land you in jail." He is wrong about the Act and I would like to hear more from him about the Jews and the Death of Jesus in the light of Nostraew Aetate and the USCCB's "God's Mercy Endures Forever: Guidelines on the Presentation of Jews and Judaism in Catholic Preaching."
In his opinion the TLM represents how God, "...wanted to be worshiped..." This is not Church teaching.
The list goes on, including his notions of the role of women as housewives and mothers. These are his socio/political preferences. They are not Church teaching.
Response on vaccines in the works.
FMK, I told you that you do not have permission to call me pig - only my friends can do that. I'll come up with a distasteful moniker for you if you persist. You may refer to me as WP.
I also suggest that you not waste your time presenting your case for vaccines. You are unqualified for this and will just make a fool of yourself. I expect you're out there cherry-picking as we speak. Shouldn't you be attending to your priestly duties?
If you looked at my profile, you would find that I am a retired pediatric ICU physician, with 40 years of practice in academic settings and a degree in Immunology/Microbiology. I participated in many randomized trials, EUA pharmaceutical administration, etc. Yes, I have kept up with the Covid literature in retirement.
Mark Thomas,
I guess that means Catholic lawyers and politicians need to shut up, too. After all, look at how their professions have impacted society! Whoops, that applies to the most Catholic president ever, too. So sorry.
Nick
FMK, Do you opine about rocket science, molecular biology, quantum physics, etc as well?
I do not doubt that Harrison Butker strives daily to live a holy life. I am concerned though in regard to certain thoughts that Mister Butker has offered.
Example: Via his commencement address in question, Mister Butker denounced the "Church of Nice." He said that the "Church of Nice" is not "a winning proposition."
Mister Butker said that we must not disregard charity. That is good. But he continued:
"It is safe to say that over the past few years, I have gained quite the reputation for speaking my mind. I never envisioned myself, nor wanted, to have this sort of a platform, but God has given it to me, so I have no other choice but to embrace it and preach more hard truths about accepting your lane and staying in it."
Mister Butker has acknowledged that there are times that he has fallen short of the Lord. Fortunately, the "Church of Nice," during those times, has rescued him.
I understand the general definition of the "Church of Nice" as that of a holy, gentle Church who accompanies Her children down the path that leads to the Lord. I will stand corrected should that definition prove false.
Anyway, I imagine that when he has fallen short of the Lord, Mister Butker has benefitted from the "Church of Nice." That is, the "Church of Nice" has treated Mr. Butker in gentle, understanding fashion. I imagine that Mr. Butker has not encountered a fire and brimstone Church/priest.
The "Church of Nice" need not jettison the truth. She can hold to the Truth while serving as the "Church of Nice."
Anyway, I have found that the "Church of Nice" is in certain ways preferable to the "hardcore" approach to Catholicism that, at times, I believe that Mister Butker has promoted.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
woundedpig,
Fr. MJK has problems with basic politeness. Whenever I'm the unfortunate target of his careful attention, he usually calls me a moniker for the Devil. Maybe that casually ridiculing people he disagrees with was part of his sophisticated seminary formation?
Nick
Nick, thank you for your response. Nick, again, I believe that Father Kavanaugh's point in question is valid.
Mister Butker is keen to note as to the manner in which this, or that, has degraded society. Example: He referenced the negative manner in which "growing support for degenerate cultural values in media" has impacted society.
Speaking of media: What about the powerful, successful, yet unseemly manner in which, via the media, the NFL has sold its product to the public?
For decades, with the help of television networks, and additional media outlets, the NFL, via the glorification of violence, alcohol...cheerleaders dressed provocatively...allusions to gambling...have sold millions of Americans on the notion that Sundays should be spent, from morning to midnight, watching NFL games, as well as pre-and-postgame sports shows.
It is true that the above is the work of the NFL hype machine, rather than NFL players. But Mister Butker, to the tune of millions of dollars, has benefitted from the above.
Again, I believe that Father Kavanaugh has an excellent point in question.
=====
By the way, well into the first 20 or so years into the 20th Century, "traditional" Catholics in America would have found it appalling to have devoted hours on the Lord's Day to the business of playing/glued to NFL games.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
Pig - Permission not sought nor needed. I give you permission to conjure any moniker for me you choose. Be clever, won't you?
In my response regarding vaccines I will not be opining. I will cite sources as you have.
Sophia here: Thanks be to God, unlike St. Athanasius of Alexandria, we do not have to stand alone, "contra mundo" especially since even some of those masquerading as shepherds are standing with the world- against us!
EWTN's "World Over" discussions this week, Bishop Thomas Paprocki on President Biden's Catholicism and Fr. Gerald Murray/ Robert Royal on the Harrison Butker's Catholic Commencement speech at a Catholic College are particularly encouraging!
https://www.ewtn.com/tv/shows/world-over?utm_campaign=The%20World%20Over&utm_medium=email&_hsenc=p2ANqtz-_oFx4WFQyt6CD1Vj27uUbvMlnOC0gyCe4MnlQyZ6d5g8FjjkJT33NOOTgO41JWNHFE0Ju78SDq_0ZUmLOGx3iSiNQlpw&_hsmi=307509404&utm_content=307509404&utm_source=hs_email
Given the fact that the NFL so often makes the news for the negative, even criminal, violent behavior of some of its players (earning it the moniker, "National Felony League") one would expect the NFL to send Mr. Butker a letter of gratitude for proving that despite the negative subculture, his level of virtue can survive! Instead, the NFL, via Jonathan Beane, its senior vice president and chief diversity and inclusion officer, distances itself! This is just an additional indication that "Good is indeed now being called evil and evil Good!"
Mark Thomas,
I'm not sure why you're trying to convince me the NFL is a bad thing--I don't think I've let on that I think to the contrary. What I am saying is that Fr. MJK's point applies to Joe Biden, Chuck Schumer, and anyone who works in a profession or industry that has had negative effects on society, too. I'm sure he will apply his reasoning consistently and with equal force.
Nick
I have to admit that I love it when I am immediately proven correct.
Nick
I do not in any way pass judgement upon Mister Butker's soul.
I wonder simply as to how he, or anybody, would respond, for example, to CCC 2187:
"Sanctifying Sundays and holy days requires a common effort. With temperance and charity the faithful will see to it that they avoid the excesses and violence sometimes associated with popular leisure activities."
===
The overwhelming amount of NFL games are played on Sundays. Regardless as to the day upon which the games are played, an NFL game is violent to its core.
As Vince Lombardi declared years ago, football is not a contact sport. Football is a collision sport.
Again, I had long been conflicted in regard to the NFL. I watched NFL games — mainly the New York Football Giants. I was fine with having watched just one NFL game — the Giants — per week.
I viewed the vulgar commercials aimed at an important segment of the NFL's audience. That is, young males attracted to violence, alcohol, and sex.
I am convinced that the NFL has had a negative impact upon American society.
Nevertheless, despite the unseemly nature of his business, from which he's earned millions of dollars, I do not pass judgement upon Mister Butker.
I find, however, that I disagree with certain views that he has promoted in regard to Catholicism.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
Nick, I appreciate that Father McDonald has permitted me to post comments to his blog. I enjoy discussing Catholicism.
But Nick, I have not tried to convince you, or anybody, that the NFL is a bad thing. I realized long ago that folks, such as I, who participate here, harbor notions that we are unlikely to jettison.
That does not mean that we are unable to engage each other via charitable, interesting discussions.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
Meanwhile, Cardinal Hollerich running the walking together on walking togetherness says infallible Church teachings can be changed incrementally, and I'd like our resident heretics to again dismiss the idea of incrementalism the way they did on the lesbian wedding thread just below, and explain how infallible can then be changed an iota...
I'd like them to explain why anyone should believe the Church about anything, when the Church does not believe it itself. And explain how it might have gotten anything right about anything, even the resurrection, past maybe Brownian luck, and who knows about even that?
This tying together with this thread as Butker was fighting against exactly these forces of chaos against agents of chaos.
"I find, however, that I disagree with certain views that he has promoted in regard to Catholicism."
Please be specific, Mister Mark. What did he say that is contrary to what the Church teaches?
Happy Pentecost to you and yours. :^)
I read where the religious sisters (most over 70, all wearing street clothes) are upset with actual Catholicism being espoused. Biological solution in progress.
We celebrate Pentecost this Sunday. John Bergsma in his commentary (The Word of the Lord – Reflections on the Sunday Mass Readings for Year B, published 2021) makes these closing points about the Gospel reading.
“Jesus says ‘you also testify’. And while that command has its immediate application to the Apostles themselves, nonetheless it applies to the whole Church. We must testify to the truth of the faith in the middle of a culture that is founded on multiple falsehoods. The Spirit gives us the power to do that, the power to understand more deeply the teaching of Christ, and also to proclaim it boldly.”
While I do not agree with everything that Harrison Butker says, I applaud him for bolding proclaiming his love for Jesus Christ and his Catholic faith and for encouraging all of us to greater intentionality in living out our Catholic faith.
Pig - I have searched for evidence that would back up the claim that COVID was a bioweapon. What I have found were a few claims that this might be a possibility.
Regarding Fauci et al - I have found no claims by him that the, "vaccine would stop transmission." He said, "A growing body of evidence suggests that the Covid-19 vaccine can slow the spread of the coronavirus." (Feb 17 2021) He said, "“The vaccine is doing exactly what we wanted it to do. It’s preventing people from getting seriously ill — that’s the reason why you get vaccinated.” (5 Aug 2021)
Regarding "no precedent) for the efficacy of mitigation efforts (Lockdowns, community masking, school closure, selective business closures, contact tracing, quarantining the healthy, social distancing, the six foot rule) In "A Tale of Two Cities: The Catastrophic 1918 Flu Pandemic Can guide City Policy Makers Today" Shelley Hearn DrPH wrote: "Based on a 2007 Journal of the American Medical Association article, researchers found St. Louis [high mitigation efforts] experienced one of the lowest excess death rates in the nation: 358 per 100,000 people. In contrast, Philadelphia’s [low mitigation efforts} was over twice as high, with 748 excess deaths per 100,000." From the 2007 JAMA article, "However, the benefits of these interventions (shut-downs, school closures, etc) were not equally distributed. Those cities acting in a timely and comprehensive manner appear to have benefited most in terms of reductions in total EDR. For example, St Louis, which implemented a relatively early, layered strategy (school closure and cancellation of public gatherings), and sustained these nonpharmaceutical interventions for about 10 weeks each, did not experience nearly as deleterious an outbreak as 36 other communities in the study (cumulative EDR = 358/100 000 population). (August 8, 2007 Nonpharmaceutical Interventions Implemented by US Cities During the 1918-1919 Influenza Pandemic)
I am studying the linked articles regarding effectiveness. I'll be sidelined by planned surgery for a bit, but I will get to them when I can.
Bob - As for "burning down last smokes before going to work under the carport at rectory under the carport and reeking of cigarettes in the reconciliation room" you've got either 1) the wrong guy, or 2) a very active imagination.
Per Father Allan McDonald, I don’t want to clutter up this blog post any further by getting into a tit for tat discussion about the Covid response. I will however, leave you, and anyone else interested, some things to ponder and opportunities for learning. Please try to get thru this, even if it takes a couple of sessions. This is my last post - in three segments - on this topic and I apologize in advance for its length.
As a former critical care specialist for 40 years or so, I could not be more dismayed and disgusted by our public health response to Covid. A singular narrative developed, which could not be challenged without the threat of loss of job or position. Deliberative scientific debate went out the window. Censorship was rampant. The powers that be said that the science was settled. Try asking a theoretical physicist about that - you would be laughed out of town. Basically everything was done poorly and wrong.
Fauci spent a lot of time in front of cameras spreading falsehoods, buttressed by his claim that he “represented Science.” What hubris.
https://thehill.com/homenews/sunday-talk-shows/553773-fauci-vaccinated-people-become-dead-ends-for-the-coronavirus/
Search for “Fauci: If You’re Vaccinated, You’re Safe. If You’re Not, You’re At Risk” - quote on MSNBC, captured on Youtube - can’t get link to work.
Dr Walensky had many of her claims refuted, challenged and then walked back by the CDC.
https://www.cnn.com/2021/05/21/politics/walensky-comments-cdc-guidance-fact-check/index.html
https://thehill.com/changing-america/well-being/546234-cdc-reverses-statement-by-director-that-vaccinated-people-are-no/
It is true that early on we did not have good information about many things, but by the middle of 2021, we knew that children, healthy adults and even older individuals without significant morbidities had very low risk of serious illness, hospitalization, or death from Covid. We knew that the vaccine did not halt transmission/spread, that people with multiple vaccinations and boosters could still get Covid, even multiple times, and that there were serious side effects, such as clots, myocarditis, pericarditis. We knew that the frail elderly were at high risk of serious illness and disease, but that didn’t keep us from discharging elderly Covid patients to nursing homes.
We learned that natural immunity was stronger that vaccine based immunity, because antibodies driven by infection were more broad based and reached the respiratory tract, whereas vaccine immunity resulted in a narrow antibody spike profile directed at only the spike protein, not the entire virus, and did not result in significant respiratory tract penetration.
We learned that repeated vaccine dosing resulted in antibody production mostly against the ancestral strain, which no longer existed (referred to as Original Antigenic Sin, also seen in influenza vaccination), as well as higher proportion of IgG subclass 4 antibodies - the same antibodies generated by allergy shots, which are intended to desensitize/diminish the body’s immune response against a particular allergic challenge.
The sad thing is that we learned these and many other things, but failed to alter policy in most areas. A sad result is that there is more vaccine hesitancy than ever before and trust in the medical and public health professions is very low and will be hard to recover.
Perhaps the biggest discovery in 2021, which was ignored basically until the truth became too obvious to ignore, is that there have been persistent deliberately contrived statistical approached to determining vaccine efficacy. This has been variously referred to as a Bayesian, or statistical data crime, or, simply, “dirty tricks.”
As summarized by Dr Prasad and verified by The anonymous blogger Gato, Dr Norman Fenton, Martin Neil, and team and others, almost every study of vaccine effectiveness excludes cases that occurred within 14 days of dose 2 (or a booster). In other words, anyone who gets COVID 36 days after the first shot (doses are 21 days apart for Pfizer) doesn’t count against the vaccine. This approach is unheard of in any trial of a therapeutic agent. Per Dr Prasad: “A medical product owns anything that happens after you start taking it.” The other downsides of the approach taken is that side effects are not associated with the vaccine. There are numerous reports of a period of immune dysfunction, marked in most cases by reduced white blood cell counts occurring in the first 2-3 weeks following Covid vaccination. This would not be caught in a trial with the statistical approach utilized.
Dr Fenton even performed a thought experiment to demonstrate that even a placebo could be shown to have a 65% efficacy rate.
Some time spent on Dr Fenton’s Substack would be very worthwhile.
https://wherearethenumbers.substack.com
Also:
https://boriquagato.substack.com/p/bayesian-datacrime-defining-vaccine
As I said, there are so many problems with the way Covid was handled, but the last thing we need to do is turn over our national sovereignty to the WHO via the proposed pandemic treaty. We unnecessarily lost so many freedoms the last go-around - we don’t need a repeat. The WHO performed poorly for the first two years or so, but did recover to become more science based after that. Initially they said that Covid was not an airborne infection and they clearly were covering for the Chinese. Covid may not have been intended to actually be deployed as a bioweapon, but it appears to have gotten loose because of poor lab containment procedures. And our government lied about it.
https://nypost.com/2024/05/16/opinion/we-now-know-the-likely-truth-about-covid-and-how-scientists-lied/
Some have called for a “truth commission” regarding the management of Covid in this country. It must be done, to avoid repeating the many mistakes that have been documented.
https://thehill.com/opinion/healthcare/3883819-the-time-has-come-for-a-9-11-like-commission-on-covid-19/
The best enumeration of questions for a Covid commission are at the following link. There is a navigable page or full pdf with all kinds of suggestions. Data from many studies is presented to support the reasons for the questions listed. It was prepared by a Who’s Who of scientists, researchers, and clinicians.
https://www.norfolkgroup.org/
https://thehill.com/opinion/healthcare/3883819-the-time-has-come-for-a-9-11-like-commission-on-covid-19/
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