This is in the National Catholic Reporter’s on-line publication. The 1970’s dinasourers there must be apoplectic to say the least. And Hollerich? He must be dumbfounded as are the post-Catholic synodal leaders:
Pope Francis voices firm opposition to women deacons in CBS interview
Money-byte:
"I understand you have said no women as priests, but you are studying the idea of women as deacons," O'Donnell asked Francis. "Is that something you're open to?”
"If it is deacons with Holy Orders, no," replied the pope, referencing the sacrament by which deacons, priests and bishops are ordained to their respective ministries.
"But women have always had, I would say, the function of deaconesses without being deacons, right?," Francis continued. "Women are of great service as women, not as ministers, as ministers in this regard, within the Holy Orders."
11 comments:
Like I keep saying, Francis prides himself on being another Peron/Machiavelli, who trusted nobody, and who kept friend and foe constantly off balance in order to maintain power, by being wildly unpredictable, as predictability the surest way to lose power.
Anyone wasting time playing guessing games on his next move or what past moves meant will surely be disappointed, as if he sees you guess correctly, he will change that move, even if it hurts him, as he values being inscrutable above everything.
Our stable pillar pope, where being unstable is his mantra, and turning the entire Church into a reflection of himself, which is schizoid.
Bombshell? Old news. But thank you, Father McDonald, for the 60 Minutes-related story in question.
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With clarity: October 25, 2023 A.D:
Catholic News Agency
-- Pope Francis on women deacons: ‘Holy orders is reserved for men’
"Pope Francis reaffirmed the impossibility of women becoming priests, or even modern Church deacons, in an interview for a book released Tuesday in Italy."
"...holy orders is reserved for men,” the pope said."
"About the possibility of women deacons, Francis pointed out that the diaconate 'is the first degree of holy orders in the Catholic Church, followed by the priesthood and finally the episcopate.'”
Pax.
Mark Thomas
Via his 60 Minutes interview in question, His Holiness, Pope Francis, has shattered the following false claims:
-- Pope Francis, via Fiducia Supplicans, blessed homosexuality/homosexual unions.
-- Pope Francis will bestow Holy Orders upon women so they, in turn, may serve as deacons.
-- Pope Francis will introduce women priests into Holy Mother Church.
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The truth, however, will not prevent certain folks from continuing to claim the above as they are determined to defame holy, orthodox, Pope Francis.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
Uhhh....Mark....as for shattering anything, past the Church, is not Francis' own handpicked relator for the Synod, Cardinal Hollerich, also just on record as for saying changing (infallible) teaching on ordaining women for the diaconate something which will need be done carefully and slowly (lest it blow up on them like Feducia Supplicans)?
Same as Rupnik, any sign of papal displeasure on this being said, seeing as Hollerich is running a synod in the pope's name, any sign of a shattering of Hollerich's Vatican career?
All we all see at the moment is him talking out of both sides of his mouth, saying one thing and doing another, and doing everything he can to raise expectations on the liberal heterodox side, even if he then disappoints them by not going far enough...
As Hollerich rightly observes, you must first plow the ground and plant the seed before expecting a crop, and it pretty obvious what this crowd currently running things expects to harvest.
Cardinal Hollerich is doing just fine. He continues in his position of influence in which he can broadcast his views that ostensibly don't show "submission of the intellect and will" that some hyper-papalists will scream at anyone showing excessive signs of intelligence.
Nick
This discussion about ordination of women to either the priesthood or the diaconate is really downstream of a more fundamental issue, i.e., that God created man male and female. Men and women are different, and have different roles, by the hand of God. Live with it. Unfortunately, everyone is afraid to address this truth. Opening up liturgical roles to women, including the recent allowance for installed women lectors and acolytes, just reinforces the androgynous views of the secular culture that denies any distinctions between men and women. It is good that Pope Francis is holding the line on women's ordination, but it time for the Church as a whole to reaffirm that this flows from the proper, and just, distinction between men and women as created by God.
Mark, of course you will ignore this, as you do all ironclad refutations, only wanting your soundbite to reach blog readers, but....
Your neverending stream of interview quotes are utterly worthless...I know this, Francis knows this, and likely you know this, but you don't want blog readers to know this...
Francis can say anything in an interview, the Church is not bound to it, Francis is not bound to it, and them not worth the fleeting electron field disturbances on which they are recorded until erased.
We have a firm ex catherdra statement by JPII declaring the matter settled...as ironclad as you can get...
We have Francis close associate and hand picked relator of the Synod on Synodality, which SHOULD be about improving how a synod works, quoting Francis in saying this binding declaration of JPII was not forever binding and could be changed, and was open for further discussion.
Meanwhile, Francis, on the other hand, is officially silent, past cute little footnotes undercutting other firmly settled teachings, and contradicting prior Popes.
Here is what we have for a pope:
Pope Francis congratulated California governor Gavin Newsom for his refusal to carry out the death penalty and for California’s leadership in fighting climate change, the governor’s office reported
He does not condemn his rabidly pro=abortion policies and he supports an unsubstantiated by science Cult.
TJM, I don’t know if you suffer from OCD or not as I am not qualified to make that diagnosis. But your constant and I mean constant obsession with FRMJK, his politics and the immorality of the Democrats and their political platform is well known here and repeatedly, repeatedly repeating it over and over again is a bit, well, obsessive and most of the time if not all of the time is not about the topic of the post, which I think is called OCD trolling!
Bob said..."We have a firm ex catherdra statement by JPII declaring the matter settled...as ironclad as you can get...
"We have Francis close associate and hand picked relator of the Synod on Synodality, which SHOULD be about improving how a synod works, quoting Francis in saying this binding declaration of JPII was not forever binding and could be changed, and was open for further discussion."
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From the dawn of his Pontificate to date, Pope Francis has reiterated Pope Saint John Paul II's ironclad teaching that women may not serve as priests.
There were Cardinals and bishops who, prior to 2013 A.D. (the dawn of Pope Francis' reign), insisted that the teaching in question was not definitive. Said Churchmen remained in good standing with Popes Saint John Paul II, as well as Benedict XVI.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
I had noted that there "were Cardinals and bishops who, prior to 2013 A.D. (the dawn of Pope Francis' reign), insisted that the teaching in question was not definitive. Said Churchmen remained in good standing with Popes Saint John Paul II, as well as Benedict XVI."
Here is just one example to support my above claim:
In 2001 A.D., elevated Bishop José da Cruz Policarpo to the rank of Cardinal. During Pope Benedict XVI's Pontificate, Cardinal Policarpo declared in regard to Pope Saint John Paul II's Apostolic Letter Ordinatio Sacerdotalis:
"At a certain moment the Holy Father seemed to settle the matter. However, I believe that this question cannot be resolved like this."
"Theologically there is no obstacle. I believe there is no fundamental obstacle. This did not help to find a solution to this problem, if this problem has a solution."
As TIA noted, Cardinal Policarpo had insisted:
-- The Church tradition to have only men as priests is theologically groundless.
-- The 2,000 year teaching of the Church on men priests does not involve the infallibility of the ordinary Magisterium.
-- Pope Saint John Paul II did not close the question at hand he intended to close with his authority.
-- The only real reason not to ordain women priests currently involves the tensions it produces.
Cardinal Policarpo remained in good standing with Pope Benedict XVI.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
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