“It is unconscionable that any bishop around the world, no matter what culture you are, no matter what country you come from, can say (he didn’t know how to handle cases of abuse).”No! That is not an excuse and that needs to end,” said Cruz.
Isely said: “How do you get to be a bishop and you need an education on the rape of a child?”
Unprecedented contempt and disrespect was heaped upon the pope today by victims of clergy sex abuse at a scheduled Vatican meeting with them that the Holy Father was not scheduled to attend and didn't. If we were living in the 1950's and something like this happened, faithful Catholics would be up in arms condemning those who showed such disrespect. But it would not have happened in the 1950's although it did happen in the 1500's when Martin Luther and his cohorts did basically the same thing.
I, a recovering ultramontanist, would have recoiled by what is described by this reporter in the link I provide below and I would have sided with the pope and those in the Vatican. While there is still a remnant of ultramontanism in me, I am siding with the victims on this one.
But apart from demanding that the Pope and bishops of the Church follow canon and civil law as it concerns clergy who abuse and the pope who alone could make canonical changes to make stronger canon law as it regards sanctions against bishops and priests, what is the theology of these victims and the various victims' organizations there are? Are they heterodox? Do they want women priests? Do they want gay marriage and marriage of a variety of kinds opened to Catholic clergy? Do they profess the One, Holy Catholic and Apostolic Faith or are they pawns of the devil, his relatives, as Pope Francis claims?
Press for Reuter's article:
26 comments:
But what about Global Warming? (Hat tip to Cupich)
"All the survivors of abuse who took part in the meeting, which lasted more than two hours, said they were disappointed the pope did not attend, even though he was not scheduled to be there.
“We need to have a discussion with the man who makes the rules and has the power in this institution, and that’s Pope Francis,” said Peter Isely, an American from Milwaukee who was abused when he was a boy by a priest."
"...an American from Milwaukee..."
I don't understand the following in regard to rage that exists against the Church, at least the Church in America:
The Church, at least within the U.S., does not have a priest sexual abuse crisis.
Therefore, why do we pretend that the trashing of the Church is acceptable in regard to the so-called, but non-existent abuse "crisis"?
1. It is a fact that the priest sexual abuse scandal peaked in the mid-1980s, if not earlier.
2. Even at the scandal's peak, only a microscopic amount of priests had been accused of having abused minors sexually.
3. His Holiness Pope Francis is not responsible for...
-- A "crisis" that had peaked decades ago.
-- On top of that, a high percentage of accused priests had served during Pope Venerable Pius XII's Pontificate.
Pope Francis is responsible for pre-Vatican II seminaries that, during the 1940s and 1950s, were packed with perverts, modernists, homosexuals, and communists? Really?
4. The Dallas Charter has been very successful as since the early 2000s, only a microscopic amount of priests have been accused of sexual assault.
5. I am sorry that decades ago, this or that person had been abused sexually by a priest.
But how on earth is Pope Francis responsible for that? Why are victims shaking their fists at Pope Francis?
How on earth is Pope Francis responsible for a sexual abuse "crisis" that, today, does not exist?
The so-called sexual abuse "crisis" does not exist...again, said "crisis" does not exist.
That is why it's mind-boggling to me that we pretend that we're in the midst of sexual abuse crisis.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
MT,
For you it would be mind-boggling because you still have NEVER responded to my question about what PF did to punish the miscreants clerics in the Vatican who participated in a cocaine fueled gay sex orgy
Who is Peter Isley, as noted in the article in question?
Father McDonald noted that folks who exaggerate the amount of homosexuals in the priesthood are propelled by an agenda. The same applies to those who exaggerate the sexual abuse crisis — a "crisis" that does not exist.
We need to wake up...to discern the agenda of such men as Peter Isley, who has exaggerated for years the non-existent sexual abuse "crisis" within the Church.
Peter Isley is in Rome. He's on the warpath against Holy Mother Church and His Holiness Pope Francis.
Who is Peter Isley?
-- He is a founding member of SNAP.
-- In 2010 A.D., Isley traveled to Rome to defame Pope Benedict XVI:
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/abuse-in-the-church-the-demons-of-pope-benedict-xvi-a-686495.html
-- SNAP demanded that the International Criminal Court charge Pope Benedict XVI with "crimes against humanity."
Pope Benedict XVI/Cardinal Ratzinger was accused of having, for decades, covered for priests who had abused minors.
================================================================================
https://www.ncronline.org/news/world/snap-submit-evidence-abuse-icc
SNAP charged Pope Benedict XVI and three additional top Vatican officials with the "systematic and widespread practice of enabling, concealing and tolerating ongoing rape and other forms of sexual violence by clerics across the globe."
=====================================================================
Who is Peter Isley? Check the following:
http://www.themediareport.com/2013/07/10/peter-isely-snap/
Latest SNAP Publicity Stunt by Leader Peter Isely Demonstrates New Low In Frivolity
JULY 10, 2013
Pax.
Mark Thomas
Mark, you have jumped the shark with this one. Pope Francis knows about it and he is in charge. These men have avoided punishment and the Chirch heirarchy helped them escape. They have brought shame on us and our Holy Church and push billions of souls further from God. If anything you should feel outrage at his betrayal. Yet you and he seem to be headed in the opposite direction. Quo vadis?
Mark Thomas, imagine the following:
A couple has been married for a long time. Finally one spouse learns that the other was REPEATEDLY unfaithful.
Do you think this might provoke a crisis of anger and mistrust in the marriage?
"But, but, but, it was years ago...." Would not be a real consolation.
And really Mark, the crisis is one of restoring trust. That is what the hierarchy must address.
rgc said..."These men have avoided punishment and the Chirch heirarchy helped them escape."
The people with whom you've sided claim that the above includes Cardinal Ratzinger/Pope Benedict XVI.
You obviously agree with Peter Isley/SNAP's attack against Holy Mother Church and Popes Benedict XVI and Francis.
Okay.
They demanded Cardinal Ratzinger's (former Pope Benedict XVI) arrest by the International Criminal Court on charges of "crimes against humanity," as they claimed that he covered for priests who committed sexual assault.
You demand that justice be served to the hierarchy.
Therefore, you want Pope Francis arrested. Correct?
You want the former Pope, Benedict XVI (Cardinal Ratzinger) arrested. Correct?
After all, you have thrown in with folks who've shaken their fists at the hierarchy.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
MT,
You have NO credibility here. You refuse to report on what PF did not do to the gay clerics in the Vatican involved in a cocaine fueled sex orgy. Until you answer that, you are just blowing worthless smoke.
The head of ANY organization assumes responsibility for that organization, which includes owning the reputation of the organization, be it good or bad, and he inherits what previous leaders of that organization have left him.
The pope and many bishops are likely targets of anger and blame because
a) the pope is codifying and perpetuating a model of the Church that fed the abuse crisis
(you know--the one that 'doesn't exist')
b) the pope adamantly refuses to acknowledge pervasive homosexual underground in the Church
c) the pope continues to elevate and promote bishops and cardinals who, at best, have VERY questionable backgrounds or turned the other way for bona fide abusers like McCarrick.
Need more?
Dan said..."Mark Thomas, imagine the following: A couple has been married for a long time. Finally one spouse learns that the other was REPEATEDLY unfaithful. Do you think this might provoke a crisis of anger and mistrust in the marriage? "But, but, but, it was years ago...." Would not be a real consolation."
Dan, here are questions in regard to the above:
Are we talking about a spouse who is unfaithful currently? Or are we talking about a spouse who was unfaithful decades ago?
Should Spouse X wish to rage against Spouse Y, who was unfaithful decades ago, but has since reformed his/her life, then, so be it. But don't claim that Spouse Y is unfaithful currently.
Should Spouse X wish to live in the past...okay, fine. But don't accuse Spouse Y of current unfaithfulness.
That is akin to the situation in which we're engulfed in regard to the non-existent priest sexual abuse "crisis."
Should Peter Isely, SNAP, the Catholic right-wing, each with its agenda, wish to rage against abuse cases that date to the reign of Pope Venerable Pius XII (even Pope Pius XI), then so be it.
Should said factions wish to rage about a sexaul abuse "crisis" that had peaked during the mid-1980s, if not much earlier, then so be it.
But said factions should not pretend that the "crisis" continues to rage within the Church.
Do not attack Pope Francis for abuses cases that occured decades ago.
Unfortunately, that is the insanity that has prevailed with the lynch mob who is on the warpath against Holy Mother Church and Pope Francis.
Again, again, and again...
-- It is undeniable that the "crisis" peaked decades ago. Even at the peak of said "crisis," just a microscopic amount of priests had been charged with having abused minors sexually.
-- It is undeniable that since the early 2000s to date, rare has been the priest accused of sexual assault.
Despite the undeniable facts, we have a lynch mob (an hysteria fueled by factions with agendas) determined to pretend that a massive "crisis" exists within the Church in regard to priests and sexual assault.
We have factions who have raged against Pope Francis...held him responsible for abuse cases that occured during Pope Venerable Pius XII's reign...during Pius XI's reign.
That is insane.
Sorry, but I refuse to join the lynch mob in question that, to advance this or that agenda, has pretended that a massive priest/sexual assault "crisis" exists within Holy Mother Church.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
Mark T., nah. I think it would take awhile to restore marital trust. And I think the feeling of broken trust drives a lot of the anger people have. Remember too many of these were children, so looking at my marriage example, consider finding out your partner was sexually abusing minors.
Anyway, not likely to make you understand. That's fine.
One final comment Mark.. imagine finding out your spouse was repeating cheating with same sex partners. One would be angry for quite some time, dont you think? Dont you think it would take more than just a promise that it "hasn't happened for a really long time. TRUST ME." To restore the relationship? I do.
Father Dan,
Notice how MT dodges my repeated question about his golden calf? He just can't handle the truth (hat tip to Jack Nicholson)
TJM, I imagine he is trying to find and copy news reports of those cocaine fueled homosexual orgies that occurred under Benedict, and JPII.
MT, reel yourself in. There is no way to reach a conclusion that anyone but the Supreme Pontiff holds the stick to get this done. Now WHAT needs to be done is going to vary by person and making that discrimination is how we strive for justice. If our conclusion is that we need to frog march Pope Benedict off to prison then that is the right thing to do. Long before we get to that conclusion, however, we need to address the sex industry that is being supported by the bishops worldwide and give the faithful confidence that it is being addressed effectively, which means that there is a positive confidence that a priest with whom I am unfamiliar is extremely unlikely to rape my son. We are not at that point only because the bishops can’t bring themselves to state affirmatively that sodomy is a sin to be resisted and not just forgiven daily.
Father Dan,
LOL. True because MT is a left-winger, left-winger, left-winger, who also apparently does not understand that the left-wing is for Abortion on demand, gay marriage, etc. you know, intrinsic evils.
Mark Thomas:
A lot of what you said is valid, but beside the point. Absolutely, the crisis of priests abusing teens and younger in the U.S. is mostly in the rear-view mirror, and yes, changes made in 2002 have made a huge difference.
But you are -- I am sorry to say, WILLFULLY -- missing the point.
The point right now is the problem of the bishops. Their accountability and their clericalism. That's why McCarrick was such a trigger. The stories and rumors have swirled around him for years, and people were told, oh no, that's all trash. Welp...it turned out to be true. And clearly lots of people in high places knew, and they enabled him, and they lied. We know Wuerl, did, for one. Cardinal Farrell's denials are not very convincing. Now, do I think Cardinal Farrell was directly complicit? No. But do I buy that he never had the slightest inkling? Not a bit.
The anger, Mark, is over this specific phenomenon of the knowing, winking indifference of those higher ups to all this trash. You know who is angry about this? A lot of priests. Can you possibly guess why? I'll just let you guess.
And because you miss the point -- again, I am sorry to say, it seems willfully -- you cannot understand why all the talk of "clericalism" rings hollow. The pope flatly refusing to answer questions, to be transparent, to take the concerns of the faithful seriously, is classic clericalism. And lots of the higher-ups are doing exactly the same. Church Militant has a video of two Catholics being escorted away from their Archbishop because they mentioned "McCarrick" as they sought to present a petition about Mahony. How dead-headed is this? Archbishop Gomez should have embraced these folks, and said, thanks! I need to hear more of this! Why in the world should Gomez take a bullet for Mahony, of all people?
More and more Americans are fed up, and the folks in Rome show almost no sense of getting why. No, it's not about what happened 40 years ago. It's about what continues to happen, right up to today. Can you guess what I'm talking about?
I think you can.
Father Fox,
Thanks for setting the record straight in a forceful and no nonsense way.
God bless you.
Father Fox said..."Cardinal Farrell's denials are not very convincing. Now, do I think Cardinal Farrell was directly complicit? No. But do I buy that he never had the slightest inkling? Not a bit."
Father, in union with Church teaching, I do not accept your assessment of Cardinal Farrell.
I do not have any reason to think ill of Cardinal Farrell.
CCC, 2477 Respect for the reputation of persons forbids every attitude and word likely to cause them unjust injury. He becomes guilty:
- of calumny who, by remarks contrary to the truth, harms the reputation of others and gives occasion for false judgments concerning them.
2479: Detraction and calumny destroy the reputation and honor of one's neighbor. Honor is the social witness given to human dignity, and everyone enjoys a natural right to the honor of his name and reputation and to respect."
Pax.
Mark Thomas
Father Fox said..."That's why McCarrick was such a trigger. The stories and rumors have swirled around him for years, and people were told, oh no, that's all trash. Welp...it turned out to be true."
Welp...Father, what does your point prove? So...rumors about his behavior panned out. So what? The Church investigated then-Cardinal McCarrick. The Church decided that he committed grave sins.
But until a person is found guilty, are we supposed to accept as true this or that rumor about a person.
Rumors circulated about Jesus Christ.
There are rumors that Pope Saint Paul VI was a homosexual...that Venerable Pius XII was "Hitler's Pope."
There have been rumors for centuries that Popes, Cardinals, bishops, and priests engage regularly in Satanic rituals...sacrifice children.
Rumors...Pope Francis would excommunicate the SSPX...outlaw the TLM...was to unveil the "Ecumenical Mass"...
Rumors. So what?
Pax.
Mark Thomas
Father Fox said..."A lot of what you said is valid, but beside the point. Absolutely, the crisis of priests abusing teens and younger in the U.S. is mostly in the rear-view mirror, and yes, changes made in 2002 have made a huge difference."
Father, I am pleased that you have agreed with me...that you've recognized the above reality.
Unfortunately...incredibly...there are folks who post here who have trashed me for having noted the reality that you noted.
Beyond that, there are factions within the Church who refuse to recognize that, to employ words, that the "crisis...is mostly in the rear-view mirror, and yes, changes made in 2002 have made a huge difference."
Why do certain folks here and throughout the Church refuse to accept that undeniable reality?
Why, for example, do leading "traditionalist" bloggers insist that sexually abusive priests exist on a widespread throughout the Church?
Why have Peter Isley (SNAP...who wanted Pope Benedict XVI arrested for "crimes against humanity" for having protected perverted priests), as well as additional "reformers," gathered at Rome to claim...
...that sexually abusive priests are rampant throughout the Church...and that is Pope Francis' fault.
During Pope Benedict XVI's reign, they claimed that that was his fault.
Anyway, the reality is that the "crisis" does not exist. The "crisis" peaked about 35 years ago...and now, at best, is microscopic in nature.
I pray that agenda-driven factions within and without the Church will recognize that fact.
Pax.
Mark Thomas
The crisis is the loss of faith and trust in the hierarchy of the Church. The Church admits that there is a crisis.
Any blindness at this point is willful.
Father Dan,
MT is an empty suit. You must realize that by now. He conveniently overlooks the fact that McCarrick was appointed bishop by fellow lefty, Paul VI, back in 1977.
Mark, those accusations are appropriate because they have not been satisfactorily answered. The question for you is if these problems have ceased then why have they ended? This is not a comet appearing once in a thousand years. It is a flaw in humanity that will haunt us as long as we live in this world. Have the predators merely transferred their victim profiles to young seminarians and local sex workers in the vacation resorts? If it has actually ended and the orgies in Rome are less well attended than in days past then the bishops should be able to demonstrate this method and share it with other groups struggling with this problem.
Mark Thomas:
I am sad to say this, but you have made it veryclear to methat you will not respond candidly to my comments. I shall not make any more attempts.
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