Sunday, February 10, 2019

WERE DISSINTING BISHOPS AGAINST POPE PAUL VI'S HUMANAE VITAE TREATED IN THE SAME WAY AS THOSE WHO ARE DISSINTING FROM POPE FRANCIS' AMBIGUITIES AND THE CONFUSION AND POLARIZATION HE HAS SOWED?


Maybe Pope Paul VI and his implementation of Vatican II caused a great deal of polarization in the Church. But both Popes John Paul II and Benedict quelled most of that for the most part.

Pope Francis has reignited the flames of polarization in a way no modern pope has ever done, not even Pope Paul VI who ultimately was rather clear in his teachings. This is not the case with Pope Francis, especially concerning his incessant off-the-cuff statements and horrible gaffs.

Thus this article from Rueters illustrates how even the hierarchy is in disarray because of this pope and I would venture to guess more so than it was when Pope Paul VI issued Humanae Vitae which also had some dissenting cardinals and bishops.

Of course today dissenters have the social media to get their word out unlike the 1960's.

So what do you think of the bias in this article:

Sacked cardinal issues manifesto in thinly veiled attack on pope

23 comments:

Dan said...

Mark Thomas has sometimes commented that he hears of nothing but support for Francis in his parish - today after mass in my parish, many were expressing outrage, upset, and concern over Francis signing that "Human Fraternity" document.

rcg said...

This is opinion pretending to be jouralism. An honest opinion piece would have called Cardinal Müller by mame and anyone competent to read the article would have known it was.

Anonymous 2 said...

Dan,

Can you share with us the reasons for their “outrage, upset, and concern”? Thanks


Dan said...

No A2, you wouldn't understand.

Anonymous 2 said...

Dan,

Okay, let me ask it another way, then. Was it because of the language “The pluralism and diversity of religions . . . . are willed by God in His wisdom,” which was the subject of an earlier thread, or was it because of something else, or both?

TJM said...

Dan,

LOL.

Mark Thomas said...

The article in question is garbage "journalism." Who determined that Cardinal Gerhard Müller attacked His Holiness Pope Francis via the Cardinal's Manifesto? What shred of evidence is there to support said claim?

About two months ago, Father McDonald published the interview in which Cardinal Müller defended Pope Francis against the coordinated Archbishop Viganò/right-wing attack against His Holiness.

Cardinal Müller has defended and praised Pope Francis time and again in the face of right-wing attacks against His Holiness.

Pax.

Mark Thomas

Mark Thomas said...

Dan saind..."Mark Thomas has sometimes commented that he hears of nothing but support for Francis in his parish - today after mass in my parish, many were expressing outrage, upset, and concern over Francis signing that "Human Fraternity" document."

Said folks must have exploded with rage when Pope Benedict XVI said of the Qur’an: "...I have the respect due to the holy book of a great religion."

They must have exploded with rage when Pope Saint John Paul II reverenced the Qur’an...and declared that Catholics and Moslems worship the One True God.

They must have exploded with rage when Pope Benedict XVI supported "A Common Word between Us and You."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Common_Word_Between_Us_and_You

They must have exploded with rage when Pope Benedict XVI removed his shoes, entered Istanbul’s Blue Mosque, then stood "in front of the mihrab, the marble niche that faces in the direction of Mecca. He was praying alongside the Great Mufti of Istanbul, Mustafà Cagrici."

Pope Benedict XVI then bowed his head "in the direction of the niche as a sign of respect and thanked the Mufti for that moment of prayer."

They must have been outraged each year from 1991 A.D. to 2013 A.D., when Rome sent Ramadan greetings to Moslems — confirmed Moslems in their religious practices.

In short, said folks must be outraged at the interreligious "dialogue" with Islam that Popes Saint John Paul II and Benedict XVI pursued in unrelenting fashion — dialogue that, in line with said Popes, Pope Francis has continued.

Pax.

Mark Thomas

Mark Thomas said...

Dan said..."Mark Thomas has sometimes commented that he hears of nothing but support for Francis in his parish - today after mass in my parish, many were expressing outrage, upset, and concern over Francis signing that "Human Fraternity" document."

They were outraged that His Holiness signed a document that, as Pope Francis noted, is in line with the True Church's teachings — in line with the Second Sacred Vatican Ecumenical Council — ?

Does their outrage trump the joy and approval with which many Catholics greeted the "Human Fraternity" document?

Pax.

Mark Thomas

DJR said...

Dan said... "Mark Thomas has sometimes commented that he hears of nothing but support for Francis in his parish - today after mass in my parish, many were expressing outrage, upset, and concern over Francis signing that 'Human Fraternity' document."

The priest at "my" parish (assuming Anonymous permits me to use that expression) copied Cardinal Muller's statement and included it as an insert in the parish bulletin.

TJM said...

At Mass on Sunday the pastor criticized PF's left-wing approach to ministry

Dan said...

Mark Thomas, I will respond to you.

Yes, I have sometimes heard fellow Catholics speak negatively about the actions of the previous popes that you mention

Francis seems to be making more fellow Catholics upset by his style and actions than I noticed before.

I have not encountered anyone expressing "joy and approval" over this document. I likely do not live in same area of the country as you.

TJM said...

This will put MT over the edge!

https://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2019/02/guest-article-francis-and-joint.html#more

MT, do us a favor. Instead of posting endless drivel, analyze the article and tell us where the author is mistaken. It will be a new experience for you!

Anonymous 2 said...

Mark Thomas,

Oh dear, yes, please stop with your endless drivel, bothering us with pesky things like, you know, facts and stuff! You must have forgotten that for Francis Bashers the Animal Farm principle applies to everything Benedict ad Francis say or do:

“Pope Benedict good. Pope Francis baaaaad.”

And note the double-think in the linked Rorate Coeli piece:

“This is not to say that this determinism is a component of the statement signed by the Pope and the Imam; it would rather be a presupposition held by the Imam that enables him to agree with Pope Francis that God wills the plurality of religions, although they no doubt differ on why He wills them.”

So, the Iman gets to have an unexpressed presupposition about the language, Pope Francis doesn’t. Of course, we could also talk about the accuracy of the imputation to the Imam, just as we could about any imputation to Francis, but that is another conversation.


TJM said...

Anonymous 2

Sounds like you are getting desperate for allies

Anonymous 2 said...

Sounds like TJM is engaging in his usual tactics of distraction when he has no good arguments on the merits.

DJR said...

Mark Thomas said..."Who determined that Cardinal Gerhard Müller attacked His Holiness Pope Francis via the Cardinal's Manifesto?"

Answer: Cardinal Kasper.

TJM said...

Anonymous 2,

Engaging in projection much? Still enjoying your slobbering love affair with Obama?

Anonymous 2 said...

It seems that TJM has a new favored tactic—accusing others of engaging in projection. Ironically, of course, this is itself a prime example of projection, which he engages in constantly.

And notice, yet again, that he still refuses to address the merits of the cogent points raised by MT. So, the tactics of distraction continue. Sad.

TJM said...

Anonymous 2,

MT and "cogent points" is an oxymoron.

Enjoying the Infanticide Party much these days? Carry Me Back to Old Virginny

Anonymous 2 said...

And so the ad hominem distraction and failure to address the merits continues. Does TJM not realize just how transparent he is?

TJM said...

Anonymous 2,

Speaking of transparent. You are just another fake catholic that supports the Abortion Party and is desperate to change the subject. Academics specialize in that sort of conduct. No wonder colleges and universities are shedding applicants and students who are interested in pursuing honest careers and eschewing "white privilege,"toxic masculinity" and other assorted left-wing drivel academia is peddling these days. You will probably survive to retirement but your younger left-wing buddies will luck if they can land work as baristas

Anonymous 2 said...

TJM,

Whoever said it was correct—you have issues. And I strongly suspect that calling me (and so many others) a fake Catholic is just another instance of your own projection, whatever your claimed views on abortion are. I am completely done with you now and will no longer play your juvenile mind games.

I really do trust that readers of this Blog will not be taken in by your serpentine twisting and turning and your constant ad hominem distractions (you still will not answer MT’s points about previous popes and Islam). In fact sometimes I even wonder whether your claimed persona is genuine or invented. Your conduct certainly seems to be the sort of thing we have all been warned about on social media.