Thursday, February 7, 2019


From the "Oh how creative and precious" file:

Michael Joncas, who should know better, unless he isn't Catholic, asks a dumb question at Praytell that has some dumb comments, but alas. You can press the title for the full post, I copy a pertinent excerpt below the title:

Question about a Roman Rite liturgical practice

Recently I have experienced a practice in some of the communities to which I’ve been assigned that is new to me, namely the provision of a small paten with a single largish host and a chalice holding only enough wine and water for the priest’s use designated for the priest/presider in isolation from the other eucharistic breads/hosts and wine. While I don’t think this practice invalidates the Mass being celebrated, I wonder where the practice comes from and what reasons are adduced for introducing it. Steeped in a eucharistic theology that makes much of the symbolism of one bread and one cup at eucharist, I would see no need for a separate paten and chalice for the priest/presider; in fact I might go so far as to say that doing so strikes me as an embodiment of the clericalism against which Pope Francis inveighs. On the other hand, I seem to remember an argument that the priest must commune from elements consecrated at the Mass over which he presides; perhaps supplying eucharistic bread and wine separate from the congregation’s guarantees that the priest will follow that precept.

My answer according to color:

The priest with his own chalice and paten comes from the Traditional Latin Mass and remains a custom in the New Order of Things, (NOT).  That a liturgist doesn't know this is quite astounding, no or not? 

The reason the priest has his own host and chalice is that the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass isn't complete until HE, the PRIEST, Acting in the PERSON of CHRIST, the HEAD of the CHURCH, consumes the HOLOCAUST. If the priest doesn't consume the Holocaust of the Mass he is celebrating, the Holy Sacrifice is not complete.  Does anyone disagree with this DOGMA?

Clericalism is not experienced when a priest completes the Sacrifice. But it is experienced when a priest misleads the faithful or speaks ignorantly of things he should know something about.  

And for Pope Francis, at every Mass that His Holiness celebrates everyday, His Holiness uses the celebrant's chalice and paten and the Host on it and consumes the Host completely, not breaking it into smaller fragments for the laity to receive so that he can be one with them.  


TJM said...

"Inane" or did you mean "Insane?"

John Nolan said...

Joncas is a writer of pop music. He is no more a liturgist as is Elton John.

Frank J. Hartge said...

Fr. Joncas is a priest and the composer of “On Eagles Wings”.

TJM said...

Wow, "On Eagles Wings!" I bet Mozart is intimidated!

Anonymous said...

"The reason the priest has his own host and chalice is that the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass isn't complete until HE, the PRIEST, Acting in the PERSON of CHRIST, the HEAD of the CHURCH, consumes the HOLOCAUST."

The priest can, without "his own" host and chalice, consume the holocaust, thus completing the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.

His consuming thereof does not necessitate the use of a separate paten, host, and chalice.

Fr Martin Fox said...

That is funny/sad.

Is there a single word for "funny/sad"? I'd like to know.

Anonymous said...

I was told in Catholic school years ago by a brother---there is no such thing as a dumb question, thought I became skeptical when I heard about the softball questions given to athletes at a certain school, such as "how many quarters in a game?!"

Anonymous said...

Fr Fox, I believe the word you are looking for is tragicomic. It can be used to describe a lot of people and events these days.

Anonymous said...

I don’t get it. The photograph looks as if it is from India, the 12 holding candles must be apostles. The Altar looks like a banquet table and I wonder if it is consecrated. Strangely the vestments look very traditional. I don’t get it. Here is another thing I don’t get: Decades ago if I were to try and practice my faith, avoid sin and live humbly according to the gospel , most people would have thought that a good thing. Today I am an intolerant wacko fringe right wing fanatic. I’m just trying to live my faith, what am I doing wrong?

Fr Martin Fox said...


"Tragicomic"! Thanks!

Gene said...

I told Fr.MacDonald once in his office, "I have a stupid question?" He replied (smiling), "Now, Gene, there are no stupid questions,
only stupid people who ask questions."