Saturday, October 15, 2011



Several years ago there was an interesting election for governor in Massachusetts. A Mormon was running against a Catholic. It appears that the very secular, almost anti-religious Boston Globe Newspaper had placed its stamp of approval on the Catholic Candidate.

Do you think they approved the Catholic Candidate because she is so thoroughly Catholic? No. The paper had endorsed the Catholic, because the Catholic, apparently is a Cafeteria Catholic unlike her opponent who seems to take his Mormon faith extremely seriously.

The Catholic is pro-choice and had even gone so far as to endorse for Massachusetts same sex marriages. The Mormon on the other hand, true to his religious convictions is opposed to abortion and state recognized and sanctioned same sex marriages. The implication here is that at least in the State of Massachusetts you will get ahead in the world, if you are more loyal to a secularist agenda than to your Church’s agenda.

And more than likely a good number of Catholics who comprise a significant part of the population of Massachusetts will vote for the Catholic, not because she is a loyal Catholic, but precisely because she is not!

And then a Baptist pastor trashes both Mormons and Catholics:

Last Friday, Rev. Robert Jeffress, the Dallas pastor who introduced Gov. Rick Perry at the Values Voter Summit, spoke derisively about the Mormon faith of Mitt Romney, making the case that “Mormonism is a cult.” Two days later, he chided Islam, Hinduism and Buddhism as “false religions.”

Last year, Rev. Jeffress said the Roman Catholic Church was the outgrowth of a “corruption” called the “Babylonian mystery.” He continued, “Much of what you see in the Catholic Church today doesn’t come from God’s word. It comes from that cult-like pagan religion. Isn’t that the genius of Satan?”

Catholic League president Bill Donohue offered these remarks today:

Where did they find this guy? When theological differences are demonized by the faithful of any religion—never mind by a clergyman—it makes a mockery of their own religion. Rev. Jeffress is a poster boy for hatred, not Christianity.

MY COMMENT: It appears that the Boston Globe is more Christian than the good Baptist pastor's understanding of Christianity, at least the Boston Globe endorsed a Catholic to be governor of Massachusetts albeit that Catholic candidate didn't endorse the moral teachings of the Catholic Church unlike the Mormon who allowed his Mormon faith to guide his political platform.

Maybe the Mormon takes serious Vatican II's teaching that the laity should bring their faith to the public square, such as employment, politics and political platforms! Ecumenism at work, Mormon embraces Vatican II! Now if we could only get Catholics to do the same!


pinanv525 said...

Well, Jeffress is a that that is out of the way...
Mormonism is a cult, in fact, it is so kookie that I cannot understand how so many apparently intelligent people have been taken in by it. I took a course in seminary called, "Heresy, Apostasy, and Modern Cults" and Mormonism headed the list of the latter. Mormonism is not even a Christian religion, despite its insistence that it is. It is non-Trinitarian, Pelagian, and Arian. Joseph Smith was a local kook up in NY who was constantly in trouble with the law for digging for "treasure" and religious artifacts in people's yards and on their land. Word studies of the Book of Mormon have shown heavy borrowing and re-arranging of Biblical words and phrases, and a lot of it seems to come from science fiction...we were all Gods on other planets, wars on other planets, etc. Can you say, "paranoid schizophrenic?" Now, just because someone is against some of the same things we are does not mean they are our ally. Personally, I would have a lot of trouble voting for a Mormon, not only for doctrinal reasons but because you have to be so monumentally stupid to believe the garbage.

Frajm said...

I think PINAV525 that we as Catholics need to be very careful about name calling when it comes to other religions and labeling them a cult. I don't think Mormons are anymore brainwashed than Presbyterians or Catholics. I think as Catholics we can rely upon official Church discernment of their dogmas, doctrines and theology to question whether of not the religion is Christian, although it contains the some "truths" of Christianity. I don't believe we accept Mormon baptism, meaning that in the RCIA we re-baptize them or baptize them for the first time. Because their "baptism" is invalid from our dogmatic understanding of it, we can say that Mormonism is has separated itself from traditional Christianity and is something else although it embraces many moral and doctrinal tenets of Christianity.
To say that it is a cult makes us like Jeffress who sees Catholicism as one, not to mention many of our religious orders that do in fact have some "cult-like" tendencies.
In other words what's good for the goose is good for the gander.

Anonymous said...

St. Joseph Anonymous here.

Fr. Neuhaus had it right:

"The question is not whether, as president, Mr. Romney would take orders from Salt Lake City. I doubt whether many people think he would. The questions are: Would a Mormon as president of the United States give greater credibility and prestige to Mormonism? The answer is almost certainly yes. Would it therefore help advance the missionary goals of what many view as a false religion? The answer is almost certainly yes. Is it legitimate for those Americans to take these questions into account in voting for a presidential nominee or candidate? The answer is certainly yes."

This, and Romney's historic political "tacking with the wind" (i.e waffling) on issues - including but not limited to abortion, is why I don't want Romney as a candidate.

pinanv525 said...

FR, with respect, please...Jesus came to America, married, fathered children. He is not on the same level as God, God is a physical being, Mormons believe in pre-existence as humans in other worlds. Their "christology" is Arian at best. God bless you good and decent Priests who are slow to criticize and swift to forgive. Unfortunately, our enemies (among whom are the Mormons)and modernist apostate Priests are very aggressive and clever. They are also tireless and persistent...just like Satan. Must it only be for hard tails like me and Templar and some others to speak bluntly and honestly about the truth? I have zero patience with willful heresy. I understand those who are heretics through simple ignorance. Studied anti-Trinitarianism is unforgivable. Christ have mercy.

BTW, there are clear definitions for cults and clear doctrinal statements that identify heresy. Platonism also contains some of the "truths" of Christianity. Idiots like Jeffress don't even warrant comment. The idea of Catholicism or Presbyterianism being cults is too ludicrous for consideration by intelligent people.

Robert Kumpel said...

God bless Mitt Romney. Such a likable and intelligent fellow. The problem is, I have one major doubt about his intelligence. It is very difficult for me to get beyond the fact that, as an adult man, he actually buys into the whole Joseph Smith/Golden Tablets/Angel Moroni thing. I'm sorry. Call me a bigot, but it's hard to take anyone seriously who can believe such an outrageous, discredited fairy story.

That said, I grew up down the street from a Mormon family. They were the nicest people anyone cold possibly want to know. Their behavior put most of us who call ourselves Christian to shame. I have been around Mormons for most of my life and in every case, they have been exemplary, outstanding people.

Now if I could just get over this whole Joseph Smith fairy tale thing. I don't think I will.

pinanv525 said...

It is sad that "niceness" has become the modern criteria for credibility and trust. I heard it said by those who knew the 911 hijackers that, "he was so nice." All these Muslims running around the country...everybody says they are so "nice." All the various foreigners that are here primarily to make money but have no real love for us or our heritage and history...they are so "nice." All the illegals down at the Mexican restaurant or working in your yard are just so damned "nice." If I hear one more do-good come back from visiting a felon on death row saying, "he is just so nice" I think I may go to jail myself for assault and battery.

OF COURSE THEY ARE NICE! Do you think those who are trying to bring the nation down from within are going to be ugly? Do you think heretics and apostates trying to win converts and approval are going to tell you the truth about their beliefs? Do you think those hordes of Third World parasites here for the gravy train are going to mess that up by telling you their true feelings? I'm sure Eve told Adam how "nice" that creature was that told her to eat the apple...Nice...nice, nice, nice. I think I'm gonna' be sick...

Anonymous said...

I read recently that Mitt Romney is pro-Choice.
How is that for adhering to his faith?
Not to mention his history of mandatory health insurance in Massachusetts. Elimanting free will...sounds like what we currently have in the White House already.
If I could actually rely on him to let his faith guide him, then I could consider him as a candidate.


pinanv525 said...

RE: Romney. No one gets to be Republican governor of Mass. without holding hands with Democrats. I would not trust him, nor will I vote for him.

Templar said...

On the subject of Romney, I won't vote for him, ever under any conditions precisely because he is a Mormon.

On the subject of Mormonism, like Robert I have known and loved some fine individuals as Mormons, but that does make me trust the religion. I'm squarely with Pin on this one. The 21st century over riding obsession to value "niceness" over "truth" bothers the living hell out of me. Nicey nicey has doomed western civilization, and Catholicism with it, on a trajectory straight back to the catacombs. Dammit!! Christians are meant to be fight for their faith. If debate we must, it should be militant debate, not wishy washy debate open to some sort of agreement that the other side may have viable points.

To directly answer the question of the post, Mormons shouldn't even be permitted to run for office let alone actually do it, and Catholics should only run for office if they're going to BE Catholic and NOT Republican, Democrat or otherwise.

pinanv525 said...

Let me quote the Second Letter of John again: "Anyone who goes ahead and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God; he who abides in this doctrine hjas both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this doctrine, do not receive him into the house and do not give him any greeting; for he who greets him shares his wicked work." Gee, that's not very nice. But,I believe John meant it and the Church meant it too or they would not have included Second John in the Canon.
Mormons are some of the most damnable heretics because they try to disguise their true beliefs by using the name of Christ to conceal their false theology. If that isn't taking the Lord's name in vain, then my last name is Goldstein.

Anonymous said...

Sorry Fajm - gotta side with pin on this one - Mormonism is a cult & that does matter. Non- trinitarian, jesus as the literal (and not only) son of god, spirit babies & lots, lots more. Donny Osmond hosting the Miss America Pageant is one thing, a leader of a known cult as President of the United States is another. With respect - I know you are big into ecumenism, but I think you might want to do some deep reading on Mormonism before you compare Mormonism to some who lack of understanding of Catholicism & have labeled our faith as cultic.

Anonymous said...

I have a lot of business in Utah. Lots of Mormons. It is a very different way of looking at the world and they are not shy about putting a Mormon in front of other people and feel it's the right thing to do. If we have to put Mormonism on the same footing as Christianity, then we are really hurting ourselves. It really does make a mockery of Christ and His earthly works.